Champ levels have not been invalidated

pheregas

Let's not forget that in the epic quest to champ all 12 newer 4s that a 5* may jump into your lap. Maybe even that last cover to a 5* so that you can finally start leveling them and champ them.

As this takes 2 plus weeks to gather enough iso to do this, you've fallen behind on keeping up with those 12 before one leaves and the replacement arrives.

The high-level 4* champ rewards were the best way to help make up for the iso drought. Without those... It's going to be more difficult.

OneLastGambit

Bowgentle wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

But you're also overlooking the fact that the exact same process will happen again with the anointed 12. Only a lot LOT faster. Yes I can't speed champ the other 30 something but I can ultra speed champ whomever the newest is.
The newest one will be Coulson right? He will rotate out in 11 months time. considering you are very likely to champ him very quickly due to the concentration of tokens in the new pool - you are then very likely to add a high amount of champ levels to Coulson for the same reason.

I would then find myself in a position where my brand new Coulson is higher than my highest old guy (IMHB level 300) at the end of coulsons rotation.

Let's have a look at the rewards.
I'm ignoring LTs because they will come every ten levels regardless of where your champ is.

Your level 300 Coulson will generate:
36 CP
17000 ISO
450 Hero Points

From level 300 to 330 a 4* champ will generate:
55 CP
25000 ISO
700 HP

From 330 to 340 a 4* champ will generate:
28 CP
8500 ISO
400 HP

So those ten levels I will not get on my older 4s generate almost as many CP and HP as the awesome 30 levels your Coulson will get before he rotates out.

See the problem now?

OK lets slow down a second. At no point did I say that champing a new guy up to 300 is better than continuing champing an old guy.

I also did not say there were no issues.

The point I have been attempting to illustrate throughout this entire thread is that your old characters have not suddenly been rendered useless - nor will they never receive champ rewards any longer. I was merely correcting the forum attitude that they were now dead weight to a more stable and balanced attitude of 'actually they just receive less rewards than before'
I was also attempting to see some positives and find some strategies to work around this problem - as I prefer to try solving problems rather than complaining about them. For some reason people took this as some kind of personal assault on their game.
Perhaps next time a change comes - I will simply see what the forum says and go with the tide

OneLastGambit

aesthetocyst wrote:

OOLG, you're speaking from with the authority of ignorance. You don't know what you just lost, because you hadn't experienced it. I am told that is bliss. I hope it lasts.

I don't believe someone has to lose something to know how this feels. Empathy is something that one can have without actually having experienced said event. I do understand why people are upset I just have a different perspective is all.

Vhailorx

OLG,

Is it a vaild problem solving plan to complain here on the forums and hope demi/d3 make some changes to this system? 'Cos that is my current best-case-scenario.

If in the (very likely) event that demi turns a blind eye to our concerns, that will be the time when i stary participating more seriously in discussions about the new optimal strategies. Until then i think our best shot at creating an improved situation is sustained, loud (but polite) outrage here on the forums and in other venues.

SnowcaTT

aesthetocyst wrote:

TL;DR - OOLG, your once bright and promising champ rewarding future .... has been surgically excised.

This. Aes said this (essentially) page one, so did I.

I drew my month-long hoard in latests this morning...why not I guess?

Previously I would have had 1-2 dead draws, and lots of great champ rewards. Instead, I had 5 dead draws.

Next season I already have an almost 50/50 chance of dead draws, and no way to try to progress in 5* land WITHOUT those dead draws.

It was a sudden flip - very few will be able to champ fast enough to avoid those dead draws.

And you can't champ faster because your resources where removed! You aren't getting the great champ rewards! Oh, and by the way...that of course slowed you down for any sort of 5* progress because those LT champ rewards were just basically eliminated as well.

OneLastGambit

Vhailorx wrote:

OLG,

Is it a vaild problem solving plan to complain here on the forums and hope demi/d3 make some changes to this system? 'Cos that is my current best-case-scenario.

If in the (very likely) event that demi turns a blind eye to our concerns, that will be the time when i stary participating more seriously in discussions about the new optimal strategies. Until then i think our best shot at creating an improved situation is sustained, loud (but polite) outrage here on the forums and in other venues.

You can protest and voice (valid) concerns on the forum. That is partly what it is for. What I advocate though is working with what you have AND voicing your concerns. If youre stranded on a desert island you can voice your concerns about the lack of food or you can voice those concerns while trying to find some. Yes...I did just compare interaction with d3 to being stranded on a desert island.

OneLastGambit

SnowcaTT wrote:

aesthetocyst wrote:

TL;DR - OOLG, your once bright and promising champ rewarding future .... has been surgically excised.

This. Aes said this (essentially) page one, so did I.

I drew my month-long hoard in latests this morning...why not I guess?

Previously I would have had 1-2 dead draws, and lots of great champ rewards. Instead, I had 5 dead draws.

Next season I already have an almost 50/50 chance of dead draws, and no way to try to progress in 5* land WITHOUT those dead draws.

It was a sudden flip - very few will be able to champ fast enough to avoid those dead draws.

And you can't champ faster because your resources where removed! You aren't getting the great champ rewards! Oh, and by the way...that of course slowed you down for any sort of 5* progress because those LT champ rewards were just basically eliminated as well.

Honestly I see the issue and I relate, of my roster of 21 champed 4* only 2 are in the illustrious 12 (and theyre both leaving soon) so I am in the same boat as you guys in terms of loss of resources. Don't think of it as a race, because it isn't. I'm not competing against anyone in terms of roster progress. It's the imaginary time constraint we all place on our 'progress' which makes us feel frustrated. If you get enough resources to champ someone now or in 1 years time will it make a difference to how you play or what you obtain?

Crowl

OneLastGambit wrote:

Hmmm in PVE I think that it's possible for players of any level above 2* to get t10. I got t10 as a 3* player in pve a couple of times. It was more work that's true but it wasn't any harder really. It's available to 1% of players but that assumption that the t10 finishers are also the top 1% of the game isn't true. If you have 1 cover of all essentials, the time to grind a little and access to Line bracket check rooms then you can place t10 regardless of roster level. One could even argue it's easier for a lower end player as their scaling is not nightmarish like high end players

Regardless of feasibility or not, the simple maths of the situation is that only 1% (note not the top 1% of rosters or anything like that) can ever get t10, there is no way round that fact and given the scarcity of covers for the relegated 3/4 of 4*s one would assume that the competition to be in that 1% is going to heat up to new releases levels when the good ones are being awarded in a pve event.

OneLastGambit

Crowl wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

Hmmm in PVE I think that it's possible for players of any level above 2* to get t10. I got t10 as a 3* player in pve a couple of times. It was more work that's true but it wasn't any harder really. It's available to 1% of players but that assumption that the t10 finishers are also the top 1% of the game isn't true. If you have 1 cover of all essentials, the time to grind a little and access to Line bracket check rooms then you can place t10 regardless of roster level. One could even argue it's easier for a lower end player as their scaling is not nightmarish like high end players

Regardless of feasibility or not, the simple maths of the situation is that only 1% (note not the top 1% of rosters or anything like that) can ever get t10, there is no way round that fact and given the scarcity of covers for the relegated 3/4 of 4*s one would assume that the competition to be in that 1% is going to heat up to new releases levels when the good ones are being awarded in a pve event.

True, this is something that occurred to me. Competition for the next PVE with any of the forum ranked t10 will now be very intense. Maybe that was D3 intention all along - more grinding = more health packs = more health pack sales.

Crowl

OneLastGambit wrote:

True, this is something that occurred to me. Competition for the next PVE with any of the forum ranked t10 will now be very intense. Maybe that was D3 intention all along - more grinding = more health packs = more health pack sales.

By this point and with the pve system we have, I don't think health packs will come into it on most pve events, in my experience it all comes down to speed for your first four clears and how well you time your final clears, with little impact on stock of health packs if you have a few strong boosted 4*s to call on and a suitable battery to accelerate them further.

sinnerjfl

OneLastGambit wrote:

The point I have been attempting to illustrate throughout this entire thread is that your old characters have not suddenly been rendered useless - nor will they never receive champ rewards any longer.

PVP/PVE progression will net you about 5 covers a year (4*) for champ rewards, thats pretty damn slow
compared to now.

Mercalla

easy solutions:

1. change the bonus hero chance from 5% to 75%
2. add a third legendary token pull - put the original 12 4*'s into the classic legendary tokens along with the original 3 5*'s. The new leg token will be a middle grouping that contains characters between latest and classic

OneLastGambit

sinnerjfl wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

The point I have been attempting to illustrate throughout this entire thread is that your old characters have not suddenly been rendered useless - nor will they never receive champ rewards any longer.

PVP/PVE progression will net you about 5 covers a year (4*) for champ rewards, thats pretty damn slow
compared to now.

It is slow, not arguing there. It was the popular (mis)conception that those old 4* would now be useless and would never see any rewards at all.

If the forum had been set ablaze with the (correct) words "Most of my roster will see less champ rewards than before" I might have added my voice to those which spoke it. I guess though "less champ rewards" doesn't quite have the same emotional impact as "No Champ rewardz for da rest of tym!!! This game SUKS! I QUIT!"

Stax the Foyer

OneLastGambit wrote:

The point I have been attempting to illustrate throughout this entire thread is that your old characters have not suddenly been rendered useless - nor will they never receive champ rewards any longer. I was merely correcting the forum attitude that they were now dead weight to a more stable and balanced attitude of 'actually they just receive less rewards than before.'

OneLastGambit

Stax the Foyer wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

The point I have been attempting to illustrate throughout this entire thread is that your old characters have not suddenly been rendered useless - nor will they never receive champ rewards any longer. I was merely correcting the forum attitude that they were now dead weight to a more stable and balanced attitude of 'actually they just receive less rewards than before.'

Stating everything is broken and there are no more champ rewards is what people said (inaccurately) their point was a strawman point and a rather hyperbolised one at that. If you went to the Dr because you were feeling a bit under the weather and he took the same attitude as the forum and said you were dying and your life was worthless do you think it would seem reasonable? or silly?

Unless you actually are dying, then it would be a valid thing to say.

Then imagine when you ask the Dr if maybe he is exaggerating a little bit he flashes you a picture of a strawman...again how reasonable do you think that would be?

astrp3

OneLastGambit wrote:

Hmmm in PVE I think that it's possible for players of any level above 2* to get t10. I got t10 as a 3* player in pve a couple of times. It was more work that's true but it wasn't any harder really. It's available to 1% of players but that assumption that the t10 finishers are also the top 1% of the game isn't true. If you have 1 cover of all essentials, the time to grind a little and access to Line bracket check rooms then you can place t10 regardless of roster level. One could even argue it's easier for a lower end player as their scaling is not nightmarish like high end players

That hasn't been my experience - though maybe it's because I suck. I have made top 10 in a PvE (I did it in every subnode in my first 7-day PvE a couple of months back), but I think that was back when I had a 2* roster or maybe had just champed my first 3*s and may havea been in CLR 6 or even lower. Now I have a 3* roster and haven't done it since. Even in the cases where I've waited until the last hour and a half to do the 5th, 6th, and 7th clears, I have missed the top ten (though I've come close). I could wait until the last hour, but I don't have the roster/health packs (or is it the skill?) to do that and then immediately do my first four clears in the next subnode/PvE. I suppose I could stop doing PvPs (I do all of them) but then I'd forego the 3* covers I get from them and still don't know if I'd make top 10 without having a useable 4* (which I don't). Maybe it's the slice I play in (in the last one, I finished 2K behind an alliance mate - he got 4th, I got 32nd).

So I still think that you need 4*s to get 4*s from PvE placement (and from PvP at all - though you might be able to get the 900-pt 4* with a 3* roster), at least if you play the full event (you can always try entering late and hoping for a small bracket - though you might miss the progression 4* if you did)

Xenoberyll

OneLastGambit wrote:

Stating everything is broken and there are no more champ rewards is what people said (inaccurately) their point was a strawman point and a rather hyperbolised one at that

You're expecting people to not use hyperbole? Welcome to the internet. I guess you're new here.

The income of champ levels are a rather small fraction of what it was before. Of course people get upset about that.

Nick441234

I want to earn rewards from ALL my championed characters though, not just 12.