Will anyone tell us if we should be hoarding tokens?

RemoDestroyer

Before champion levels were officially announced I think a forum mod or official representative of the game suggested that players hoard tokens for a new quality of life change to the game that was coming soon.

Is there any chance someone with a red or green name will be allowed to again give players here a heads up if any quality of life changes may be coming soon that will benefit from hoarding tokens, command points, hero points or Iso-8 or maybe not selling a certain character before the said change is officially announced?

Not trying to speculate on any unannounced features, just wondering if we'll get these types of hints or suggestions again from someone allowed to do so.

Meander

No, they didn't, but there was rampant speculation in the community. Much like now. And no, they won't. Like always, it's up to you if you want to or not.

Fightmastermpq

In general, they don't like you to hoard. They want you to open everything and then spend money to make up for any poor decisions.

At the minimum we know that bonus heroes will offer.....bonus heroes when you open tokens. So if you hold off on opening your tokens until after it is implemented then you will get more bonus heroes.

Magic

I would hoard. Can't harm you if you do and the new feature benefits from that.

broll

You should.

GurlBYE

The only benefit to hoarding is for % changes and new things being added.

Otherwise it's just saving draws of the same odds for the same time, as opposed to spread out. (the only other exclusion is the vault, but that's a special case, and it's just taking more draws of the same odds)

If there is a new feature and they don't want people to hoard, they'll just make a new token.

Like if they decide to redistribute classic legends tokens, I can guarantee you it won't transfer your latest legends tokens, so you'd need CP.

Fightmastermpq

GurlBYE wrote:

Otherwise it's just saving draws of the same odds for the same time, as opposed to spread out. (the only other exclusion is the vault, but that's a special case, and it's just taking more draws of the same odds)

As usual you are wrong. Hoarding allows you to overcome extremely unfavorable RNG by condensing things that would normally happen outside the 2 week cover expiration window to happen within it. Or in the case of LTs - you can pull before certain characters leave the latest pool.

Evilgenius_9

Fightmastermpq wrote:

GurlBYE wrote:

Otherwise it's just saving draws of the same odds for the same time, as opposed to spread out. (the only other exclusion is the vault, but that's a special case, and it's just taking more draws of the same odds)

As usual you are wrong. Hoarding allows you to overcome extremely unfavorable RNG by condensing things that would normally happen outside the 2 week cover expiration window to happen within it. Or in the case of LTs - you can pull before certain characters leave the latest pool.

Or in my case, I made a decision that I never want to waste 4* covers for lack of ISO - so I'm hoarding until I can use
the covers. Once I have 200k or so ISO, I'll only open enough to get champ a 4*, then save again until I have enough ISO for the next batch.

JablesMc

Evilgenius_9 wrote:

Or in my case, I made a decision that I never want to waste 4* covers for lack of ISO - so I'm hoarding until I can use
the covers. Once I have 200k or so ISO, I'll only open enough to get champ a 4*, then save again until I have enough ISO for the next batch.

LOVE this idea!

OneLastGambit

Evilgenius_9 wrote:

Fightmastermpq wrote:

GurlBYE wrote:

Otherwise it's just saving draws of the same odds for the same time, as opposed to spread out. (the only other exclusion is the vault, but that's a special case, and it's just taking more draws of the same odds)

As usual you are wrong. Hoarding allows you to overcome extremely unfavorable RNG by condensing things that would normally happen outside the 2 week cover expiration window to happen within it. Or in the case of LTs - you can pull before certain characters leave the latest pool.

Or in my case, I made a decision that I never want to waste 4* covers for lack of ISO - so I'm hoarding until I can use
the covers. Once I have 200k or so ISO, I'll only open enough to get champ a 4*, then save again until I have enough ISO for the next batch.

Exactly What I do.

Note OP : Hoarding very rarely hurts but not hoarding when big changes may occur nearly always results in hurting.

GurlBYE

Fightmastermpq wrote:

GurlBYE wrote:

Otherwise it's just saving draws of the same odds for the same time, as opposed to spread out. (the only other exclusion is the vault, but that's a special case, and it's just taking more draws of the same odds)

As usual you are wrong. Hoarding allows you to overcome extremely unfavorable RNG by condensing things that would normally happen outside the 2 week cover expiration window to happen within it. Or in the case of LTs - you can pull before certain characters leave the latest pool.

So you are disgreeing with me based on the fact that you don't like my opinions.
So be it

anyway.

to make this simple.

No thats not how percentages work.

FIRST

The only benefit to hoarding is for % changes and new things being added.

So do legends not add new things and swap them out? and classics have % changes?
You are agreeing with me.

Hoarding allows you to overcome extremely unfavorable RNG

Here's a simple math problem

You have a 1/100 chance of drawing any particular of the 100 items in a jar. You record your results and put them back between each draw (we're not working off a vault here, so they remain in the jar)

now two people mark their results.

They both get 50 draws.

One person does them over 50 days.
One person does them all at once.

Please explain how the odds are superior of drawing any particular object for the person who draws them all at once.
And explain how the second person overcomes the odds at all.

The only benefit available is for people drawing without the resources to handle what they are drawing and that has NOTHING to do with improving odds and more to do with not being prepared for the obvious.

If you have all 4 stars fully covered and not champed and draw a legendary, you aren't hoarding to improve your odds or overcome rng, your hoarding because odds are more likely for you to draw something that you have.

The worst part is we aren't even saying different things your just kinda being a bit rude in saying i'm wrong because "as usual I'm incorrect?"

In the future if it saves you energy just block me then.

broll

GurlBYE wrote:

Here's a simple math problem

You have a 1/100 chance of drawing any particular of the 100 items in a jar. You record your results and put them back between each draw (we're not working off a vault here, so they remain in the jar)

now two people mark their results.

They both get 50 draws.

One person does them over 50 days.
One person does them all at once.

Please explain how the odds are superior of drawing any particular object for the person who draws them all at once.
And explain how the second person overcomes the odds at all.

Your problem is incomplete. Say each there are 40 types of cookies and once you get 13 of a certain type of cookie they all become eatable, until then a certain percentage are poisoned and must be discarded. In addition after those 13 each cookie gives you a prize (including more cookie chances)

Also the 1/100 draw is not your only way to get cookies, you get those same 40 cookies from about 5 or 6 other methods.

Therefore it is better to save up your chances for when you have the best chance of hitting your 13 so you discard as few cookies as possible.

That's how hoarding is better. If you just take open every cookie everytime and don't care about discarding the poisoned cookies, then you will ultimately not have as many cookies as the one who planned out their selection times.

It's not about the odds of a particular cover, you're right those don't change. It's about planning to maximize your gains by minimizing your wasted pulls.

GrumpySmurf1002

RemoDestroyer wrote:

Before champion levels were officially announced I think a forum mod or official representative of the game suggested that players hoard tokens for a new quality of life change to the game that was coming soon.

Yeah, this never happened. It was the forumites who have spoiler info who were telling everyone to hoard.

That said, yes, you should hoard right now.

huktonfonix

I have several 2* at 140+ and need 175K ISO in the next 2 days to champ 4Cage, so I'm pulling every heroic/elite/standard I get, but I feel silly for doing so.

Yes. Hoard them.

Andre_Leca_89

I started hoarding yesterday

I can't wait to see what bones Hero's bring I always get excited with new fixtures in the game

I've only once hoarded tokens before it was back in my 3* days most of my 3* we're fully covered and I didn't want to waste covers so when I had enough ISO to champion the rest of my 3* I opened all my tokens over 400 worth it was so much fun opening all does tokens.

alphabeta

You should be hoarding tokens

OneLastGambit

GurlBYE wrote:

Fightmastermpq wrote:

GurlBYE wrote:

Otherwise it's just saving draws of the same odds for the same time, as opposed to spread out. (the only other exclusion is the vault, but that's a special case, and it's just taking more draws of the same odds)

As usual you are wrong. Hoarding allows you to overcome extremely unfavorable RNG by condensing things that would normally happen outside the 2 week cover expiration window to happen within it. Or in the case of LTs - you can pull before certain characters leave the latest pool.

So you are disgreeing with me based on the fact that you don't like my opinions.
So be it

anyway.

to make this simple.

No thats not how percentages work.

FIRST

The only benefit to hoarding is for % changes and new things being added.

So do legends not add new things and swap them out? and classics have % changes?
You are agreeing with me.

Hoarding allows you to overcome extremely unfavorable RNG

Here's a simple math problem

You have a 1/100 chance of drawing any particular of the 100 items in a jar. You record your results and put them back between each draw (we're not working off a vault here, so they remain in the jar)

now two people mark their results.

They both get 50 draws.

One person does them over 50 days.
One person does them all at once.

Please explain how the odds are superior of drawing any particular object for the person who draws them all at once.
And explain how the second person overcomes the odds at all.

The only benefit available is for people drawing without the resources to handle what they are drawing and that has NOTHING to do with improving odds and more to do with not being prepared for the obvious.

If you have all 4 stars fully covered and not champed and draw a legendary, you aren't hoarding to improve your odds or overcome rng, your hoarding because odds are more likely for you to draw something that you have.

The worst part is we aren't even saying different things your just kinda being a bit rude in saying i'm wrong because "as usual I'm incorrect?"

In the future if it saves you energy just block me then.

This is all becoming very convoluted. I think what he was alluding too Gurlbye was that your odds of drawing particular characters change with the token pool.

The only thing he is incorrect about is that odds get better. They don't. Hoarding means you are waiting for the token pool to increase and therefore become more difficult to draw any one character. What it does do though is enable the possibility of drawing a new character at all if you wait until they are added to the token pool.

I'm also assuming he is talking about drawing something usable (hoarders tend to hoard until there is something they can use in the token pool) which is very subjective and entirely dependant on the quality and stage of the roster which is pulling the token.

mohio

GurlBYE wrote:

Here's a simple math problem

You have a 1/100 chance of drawing any particular of the 100 items in a jar. You record your results and put them back between each draw (we're not working off a vault here, so they remain in the jar)

now two people mark their results.

They both get 50 draws.

One person does them over 50 days.
One person does them all at once.

Please explain how the odds are superior of drawing any particular object for the person who draws them all at once.
And explain how the second person overcomes the odds at all.

The reason these things are altogether different is very easy to see. Yes those two people have the same chances of pulling the good stuff from the jar, but you're completely ignoring the fact that the jar changes every 40-50 days. Also, people talk about hoarding on much larger scales. You want to pull 250+ from one single jar to maximize your gains from that jar, not pulling 250+ spread out over 150 days, which is pulling from at least 3 different jars. If all 5* covers were created equal then you are right, it wouldn't matter when you pulled one, but the 13th cover is so much more valuable than 1-12 (and 1-10 or 11 are virtually worthless if you can't pull the rest), that you should do all you can to maximize your chances of getting it.

GrumpySmurf1002

aesthetocyst wrote:

The coming change is more complicated. No one-size-fits-all answer. One aspect of it implies hoarding is the way to, another aspect implies some players should open every token they can before the change drops.

Hopefully, they'll announce this change with some advance notice.

While I wouldn't put it past them to announce after launch, I'd say at minimum if you've got a couple hours to make a decision. Which means you can/should hoard until that point, then decide whether to break upon announcement or hold until release.

BearVenger

A larger pool can be good or bad; it's not absolute.

For me, I have a majority of the 4*s champed, and a few not yet at 13 covers. Every time d3 adds more characters to the Legendary pool, the percentage of useful covers increases, especially as they add characters far faster than I can max them.

An increased pool means I have more useable pulls, but lesser odds of getting any specific cover. That can cut both good and bad, particularly for 5* collectors.

Waiting to pull covers increases the ISO I have to champ 4*s. Waiting until I have more champs increases the odds that a particular cover won't be wasted.

The downside of waiting is also dependent on whether the newer 4*/5* are better or worse than the older 5*s. I don't think we'll see another 4Clops again, but I also think some of the newer utility guys are worth holding out for.

A lot of the speculation is based on d3 using a truly random token-cover distribution mechanism, which I hope they do.

mohio

There really in an interesting dynamic here as aes alludes to. A lot of people are currently hoarding with the plan to spend all their tokens/cp on latest legends only and maxing out the three 5* there (rng willing...). The leaked/spoiled change doesn't really alter this plan all that much where 5* are concerned except that it would hopefully allow you to get a couple extra 5* pulls along the way, so perhaps you need fewer cp. The dilemma though, comes in the multitude of 4* covers you could potentially have to throw away since you will only be pulling from the latest 12 4* heroes. Most people don't have all 12 of those championed, and also don't have the 1.75 million iso needed to champion 3 5* plus the 400k+ per 4* they want to champion on top of that. So, a lot of those 4* will go to waste, instead of currently, the 4* pulls will be spread out over all 4*, which people are much more likely to have more of championed so those covers will not go to waste.

There is the added question over whether this change will also bring with it the end of customer service cover swaps. It certainly doesn't fix the underlying issue, so it wouldn't make sense that it should, but you never know, so you must take caution when planning ahead.

In the end the forum is generally a bunch of min-maxers. The bonus heroes feature is a way to get more value from your tokens, so in general it seems like it should be better to save them until that feature is released unless you just really need to open them for iso.