The Irrelevant 7 III: The new 4*'s released since 10/16
Colognoisseur
Posts: 806 Critical Contributor
There have been seven new 4* character released since October 2016 which makes it time for The Irrelevant 7 III. Before I begin this is not a comment on the quality of the characters. It is a comment on the chance of most players to effectively cover them. Which in the case of this particular group of seven is a real shame because when this group is appropriately covered and leveled there are some unique mechanics along with the expanding amount of passive abilities which make these such a strong group.
Ever since I began playing this game I wanted a character which allowed me to remove any annoying tile. Gwenpool finally gave me my wish. This is another deceptively powerful character because of the purple power where you can use a specific code to destroy nearly anything on the board no matter where it is placed. Read that sentence again you can destroy any specific tile on the board for 9 purple AP. Not only can you do that but you can also destroy entire classes with the right code. Strikes, attacks protects? Remove ‘em all. Bunch of annoying things in a corner of the board remove it all. Any row or column can be removed. Oh yeah you also do some damage along with this. The main damage dealer is the green power which requires you to remove the gun tile to activate it. Once it is you are firing three random 4000+ damage bullets for 9 green ap. Her black power puts out protects while sending her teammates airborne. One effect of firing this is it breaks stuns. Bobby or Switch got your guys stunned for four turns send them airborne and get them back. This is another character which gets much better the more covers and levels you put in to her. She is an awesome third to Black Bolt/Dr. Strange in PvE because her purple can take out any stray cds that get placed in places you can’t access any other way. She has been my consistent third for all-goon or 2-goon PvE nodes.
Bl4de is one of those characters which might not seem like he is particularly strong. All you have to do is play him in Balance of Power when all of the characters are on an equivalent level. That might change your mind. The red power which puts out strikes as a passive until you collect 9 red when it switches to its alternative Bloodlust when it starts doing damage at the beginning of every turn. With the strikes on the board this starts to do big damage. The green aoe is also a good deal of damage for 9 green ap. The black is not the reason to use Bl4de but there are situations where it can be useful. Bl4de is an under the radar powerhouse.
Agent Venom is a character that I think is similar to the way we thought of The Hood when he was first released. He is a technically difficult character to play well which means in the hands of the ai it will be played horribly. But the quick black damage with it hitting for 4K for 5AP is strong paired with any strike tile generator it can add up quickly. The drawback is you have to keep from getting up to 16 in any color. If it does the black starts doing damage to Agent Venom and destroys 9 random tiles. What? That sucks! Except the passive board shake can be a real plus depending on how things have shaken out. This requires having to pay attention to your ap pools as you play which is the techy part. Once I got the hang of it his black became really good but it is not something you can just match and mash. The red power can interact with the black because the damage it deals can nearly double by firing it with the right amount of ap in a single pool. See what I mean? Complicated. The yellow is aoe and turns the teammates invisible for four turns. This is a good power I wish was 10 ap instead of the 11ap it is. That one measly yellow ap makes a lot of difference because there were times I could have funneled damage onto Agent Venom but consistently seemed to be one ap short. He is best used in PvE because in PvP the ai will be playing him and doing it poorly.
Medusa is the pinnacle of the growing power of passive abilities. She is a burst healer, ap generator, and damage dealer all without doing anything but matching tiles on your turn. The star passive is her red which places a 4-turn cd at the beginning of any turn when there is not one on the board. At the end of the turn it does 700 damage. If it is matched or destroyed it produces 2X350 attack tiles. If you can match this tile every turn as it is placed you will have a board of attack tiles plus the cd rolling out 2-3K damage at the end of every turn. Then you move to the yellow passive. If those tiles get matched you gain burst healing for every one matched. Match an enemy special tile you gain a random 3ap in purple, green, or blue. The purple active isn’t bad as you swap tiles and if any of those are an enemy Strike, protect, or attack you steal it and buff it. It is awesome to steal muscle attack tiles with this in PvE. Medusa is a big annoyance to deal with as you have a consistent drip drip of damage coming every turn. There are now so many passive damage dealers Medusa gives them the third they needed.
What if you don’t just want to sit there you want to cast something, too? Then Captain Marvel is your choice. She has two awesome passives to start. The green one generates 4AP in your strongest color whenever the opponent makes a match in their strongest color. That means every three match in their strongest color gets you the same plus one in your strongest color. But there’s a kicker if the color is the same she deals 2k aoe to the enemy team. If that color happens to be black it accelerates right into her active a fortified 5-turn cd which produces a strike tile at the start of every turn. When it reaches zero it does over 10k damage. Five turns is a long time if you’re impatient you can use the yellow active which reduces any friendly cd to zero for 5ap. Plus there is a yellow passive that buffs two friendly tiles anytime a cd reaches zero. All you need to do to look for a partner is to look at the previous paragraph. Then add in any cd generator, Iron Man40 or Star Lord, spring to mind and you can swarm a board. I used this team in the recent Gauntlet very successfully. In Balance of Power, Peggy added to Carol and Medusa were as strong a team as there was.
Riri Williams is probably the worst of this seven but her red damage is huge. She is a counter to an opponent who generates special tiles on the same color. Her blue will draw them to the center of the board which as long as they are the same color they will match themselves away. Then her red will do 10k plus remove up to four special tiles. Her green does decent damage and sends an opponent airborne while also sending Riri airborne. This is a poorly designed power but it isn’t useless just nearly so.
Mordo is the most recent release and he is also a support kind of character. He generates black charged tiles with his black and blue powers. Which means any character which can take advantage of those is a good match for Mordo. The black does single damage and generates 3 black charged tiles. If it is cast with three or more black charged tiles on the board the damage is converted to aoe damage. Blue does damage and generates three black charged tiles. You can see how this fits together and it can come together to work nicely but at least early on I have found it to be clunky and not as synergistic as it could be. The purple is a stun plus blue, purple, and black ap steal. Working with Black Bolt he can help accelerate Bolt’s passive damage although there are probably other better choices.
To wrap this up Medusa, Captain Marvel, Bl4de, and Gwenpool are top tier 4* who get better the more covers and levels are put in to them. The remaining three; Agent Venom, Riri, and Mordo have significant drawbacks even though they all have potential in the right situation.
Unless something changes I’ll be back with The Irrelevant 7 Go Fourth after the next seven have been released.
Ever since I began playing this game I wanted a character which allowed me to remove any annoying tile. Gwenpool finally gave me my wish. This is another deceptively powerful character because of the purple power where you can use a specific code to destroy nearly anything on the board no matter where it is placed. Read that sentence again you can destroy any specific tile on the board for 9 purple AP. Not only can you do that but you can also destroy entire classes with the right code. Strikes, attacks protects? Remove ‘em all. Bunch of annoying things in a corner of the board remove it all. Any row or column can be removed. Oh yeah you also do some damage along with this. The main damage dealer is the green power which requires you to remove the gun tile to activate it. Once it is you are firing three random 4000+ damage bullets for 9 green ap. Her black power puts out protects while sending her teammates airborne. One effect of firing this is it breaks stuns. Bobby or Switch got your guys stunned for four turns send them airborne and get them back. This is another character which gets much better the more covers and levels you put in to her. She is an awesome third to Black Bolt/Dr. Strange in PvE because her purple can take out any stray cds that get placed in places you can’t access any other way. She has been my consistent third for all-goon or 2-goon PvE nodes.
Bl4de is one of those characters which might not seem like he is particularly strong. All you have to do is play him in Balance of Power when all of the characters are on an equivalent level. That might change your mind. The red power which puts out strikes as a passive until you collect 9 red when it switches to its alternative Bloodlust when it starts doing damage at the beginning of every turn. With the strikes on the board this starts to do big damage. The green aoe is also a good deal of damage for 9 green ap. The black is not the reason to use Bl4de but there are situations where it can be useful. Bl4de is an under the radar powerhouse.
Agent Venom is a character that I think is similar to the way we thought of The Hood when he was first released. He is a technically difficult character to play well which means in the hands of the ai it will be played horribly. But the quick black damage with it hitting for 4K for 5AP is strong paired with any strike tile generator it can add up quickly. The drawback is you have to keep from getting up to 16 in any color. If it does the black starts doing damage to Agent Venom and destroys 9 random tiles. What? That sucks! Except the passive board shake can be a real plus depending on how things have shaken out. This requires having to pay attention to your ap pools as you play which is the techy part. Once I got the hang of it his black became really good but it is not something you can just match and mash. The red power can interact with the black because the damage it deals can nearly double by firing it with the right amount of ap in a single pool. See what I mean? Complicated. The yellow is aoe and turns the teammates invisible for four turns. This is a good power I wish was 10 ap instead of the 11ap it is. That one measly yellow ap makes a lot of difference because there were times I could have funneled damage onto Agent Venom but consistently seemed to be one ap short. He is best used in PvE because in PvP the ai will be playing him and doing it poorly.
Medusa is the pinnacle of the growing power of passive abilities. She is a burst healer, ap generator, and damage dealer all without doing anything but matching tiles on your turn. The star passive is her red which places a 4-turn cd at the beginning of any turn when there is not one on the board. At the end of the turn it does 700 damage. If it is matched or destroyed it produces 2X350 attack tiles. If you can match this tile every turn as it is placed you will have a board of attack tiles plus the cd rolling out 2-3K damage at the end of every turn. Then you move to the yellow passive. If those tiles get matched you gain burst healing for every one matched. Match an enemy special tile you gain a random 3ap in purple, green, or blue. The purple active isn’t bad as you swap tiles and if any of those are an enemy Strike, protect, or attack you steal it and buff it. It is awesome to steal muscle attack tiles with this in PvE. Medusa is a big annoyance to deal with as you have a consistent drip drip of damage coming every turn. There are now so many passive damage dealers Medusa gives them the third they needed.
What if you don’t just want to sit there you want to cast something, too? Then Captain Marvel is your choice. She has two awesome passives to start. The green one generates 4AP in your strongest color whenever the opponent makes a match in their strongest color. That means every three match in their strongest color gets you the same plus one in your strongest color. But there’s a kicker if the color is the same she deals 2k aoe to the enemy team. If that color happens to be black it accelerates right into her active a fortified 5-turn cd which produces a strike tile at the start of every turn. When it reaches zero it does over 10k damage. Five turns is a long time if you’re impatient you can use the yellow active which reduces any friendly cd to zero for 5ap. Plus there is a yellow passive that buffs two friendly tiles anytime a cd reaches zero. All you need to do to look for a partner is to look at the previous paragraph. Then add in any cd generator, Iron Man40 or Star Lord, spring to mind and you can swarm a board. I used this team in the recent Gauntlet very successfully. In Balance of Power, Peggy added to Carol and Medusa were as strong a team as there was.
Riri Williams is probably the worst of this seven but her red damage is huge. She is a counter to an opponent who generates special tiles on the same color. Her blue will draw them to the center of the board which as long as they are the same color they will match themselves away. Then her red will do 10k plus remove up to four special tiles. Her green does decent damage and sends an opponent airborne while also sending Riri airborne. This is a poorly designed power but it isn’t useless just nearly so.
Mordo is the most recent release and he is also a support kind of character. He generates black charged tiles with his black and blue powers. Which means any character which can take advantage of those is a good match for Mordo. The black does single damage and generates 3 black charged tiles. If it is cast with three or more black charged tiles on the board the damage is converted to aoe damage. Blue does damage and generates three black charged tiles. You can see how this fits together and it can come together to work nicely but at least early on I have found it to be clunky and not as synergistic as it could be. The purple is a stun plus blue, purple, and black ap steal. Working with Black Bolt he can help accelerate Bolt’s passive damage although there are probably other better choices.
To wrap this up Medusa, Captain Marvel, Bl4de, and Gwenpool are top tier 4* who get better the more covers and levels are put in to them. The remaining three; Agent Venom, Riri, and Mordo have significant drawbacks even though they all have potential in the right situation.
Unless something changes I’ll be back with The Irrelevant 7 Go Fourth after the next seven have been released.
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Comments
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Good info on Gwenpool. I assumed she was kind of a novelty joke so I hadn't used her since that release event, nice to see that's not the case.0
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Great summary as usual. Thanks.0
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I think I'd disagree and take Riri over Agent Venom. At his best he's just a mediocre damage dealer. Red is alright, yellow is "ehh" since it just redirects damage to Venom instead of avoiding it, but the "costs-5-AP-but-sneakily-actually-costs-7-AP" aspect of his black really kills him. At his worst his gimmicky AP juggling nonsense makes him a liability, though this is admittedly manageable when he's fully covered.
Riri's blue is rubbish, but red is good - big damage + tile removal - and green does okay damage and sends the other guy airborne. At 5 covers it only airbornes Riri for one turn which doesn't matter unless she's the only member of the team.
Otherwise I'd agree across the board, particularly with Gwenpool being deceptively powerful. Though Deus Ex Machina/Chekhov's Gun costs 10 green, not 9.
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Checking how rng on new releases has treated me... Gwenpool is at 9 covers, 5/2/2, Medusa is 0/2/2 (Gave up on simulator), Blade 1/1/3 (First character they gave out as pve progression after his release if I remember correctly), Riri at 0/2/3 (Gave up on sim), Avenom and carol are 1/1/2, and mordo is 0/2/3. I joined a top 100 pve alliance before Medusa was released.
So aside from Gwenpool, haven't gotten them much. Think I pulled 1 medusa, blade, riri, and agent venom. The rest were simulator, placement or progression rewards. Not counting Mordo since he had extra chances in the strange vaults. Actually I got 4 of these characters from a heroic/ event tokens, not legendaries.
Overall tho, Luke Cage is my lowest covered 4 at 2/1/1.
Looking forward to getting carol covered, even as low as she is I have used her to help with countdowns and to buff tiles.0 -
Appreciate your analysis as always, though I think calling this batch irrelevant isn't quite fair when you admit yourself that 4 of them are top tier and IMO 2 of them (Carol and Medusa) are contenders for the very top.
I've been chasing Carol covers pretty heavily (opened around 40 LR tokens, and saved almost every token from last season until this one) and I suppose that shows given that she's sitting at 3/4/3. Was very tempted last week to drop 360 CP to finish her but managed to restrain myself. Even with lower covers though, she's one of those characters that really shine. Medusa is getting up there too and is now 2/3/4. Had I not had real life things going on during her release she'd probably be champed or at 12 covers, but oh well. She's incredibly pesky to deal with, and I'm very much looking forward to fielding the Carol/Peggy/Medusa team you mentioned.
I agree with Blade being much more of a powerhouse than folks immediately realized. While I swept through Gauntlet fairly easily with Peggy/IM40, the Blade node was the only one where I came even remotely close to wiping. His passive damage is just ridiculous and very difficult to play around. He's sitting at 3/2/4 for me presently. Both him and Gwen (3/3/2) are characters I wouldn't mind more covers for.
As for AV I was definitely more ok with him than most at release. He's not terribly strong but once his black gets more covers he becomes much more interesting and fun to play with. Still, even though I've had some decent luck with his covers (3/3/5) he's pretty far down on my champ list. Riri and Mordo are very new and both very underwhelming. I put in a decent effort for Mordo (1/2/3) because he seemed more fun, but I've almost completely ignored any event with Riri (1/1/0).
If we're going for an overall power ranking for this lot I think it stands as Carol, Medusa, Blade, Gwenpool, AV, Mordo, Riri.0 -
I think he calls them irrelevant due to how long it takes a typical player to cover and champ them given 4* leveling iso needs and cover dilution in rewards and tokens. they'll be irrelevant until champed, which will be many months for most players.Skygazing wrote:...though I think calling this batch irrelevant isn't quite fair when you admit yourself that 4 of them are top tier and IMO 2 of them (Carol and Medusa) are contenders for the very top.
edit:Colognoisseur wrote:Before I begin this is not a comment on the quality of the characters. It is a comment on the chance of most players to effectively cover them. Which in the case of this particular group of seven is a real shame because when this group is appropriately covered and leveled there are some unique mechanics along with the expanding amount of passive abilities which make these such a strong group.0 -
I was on the ropes re: Bl4de, but this helps me; lessens the sting when I pull another Blade cover.
What's the team in which Bl4de fits?0 -
I think Agent Venom and Riri are pretty worthless overall. Carol and Medusa are def top tier... Gwenpool is OK but I am not super impressed. Blade, to me, is good but not top tier... and I have no real experience with Mordo yet but he could be OK. I would say:
Carol = A/A+
Medusa = A
Blade = B/B+
Gwenpool = B-
Mordo = C+/B-
Agent Venom = C-
Riri = D
so, 2 amazing characters, 1 solid character, two in the "meh" range, and 2 "I will never use this unless forced to do so" range. Thankfully the two at the top are so good, otherwise this batch would be a little underwhelming0 -
TxMoose wrote:
I think he calls them irrelevant due to how long it takes a typical player to cover and champ them given 4* leveling iso needs and cover dilution in rewards and tokens. they'll be irrelevant until champed, which will be many months for most players.Skygazing wrote:...though I think calling this batch irrelevant isn't quite fair when you admit yourself that 4 of them are top tier and IMO 2 of them (Carol and Medusa) are contenders for the very top.
edit:Colognoisseur wrote:Before I begin this is not a comment on the quality of the characters. It is a comment on the chance of most players to effectively cover them. Which in the case of this particular group of seven is a real shame because when this group is appropriately covered and leveled there are some unique mechanics along with the expanding amount of passive abilities which make these such a strong group.
I thought when he started doing this that they were "irrelevant" because they are 4* releases in a 5* world. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯0 -
Colognoisseur wrote:Before I begin this is not a comment on the quality of the characters. It is a comment on the chance of most players to effectively cover them. Which in the case of this particular group of seven is a real shame because when this group is appropriately covered and leveled there are some unique mechanics along with the expanding amount of passive abilities which make these such a strong group.
It states pretty clearly in the second sentence of the thread why they're called the irrelevant 7 - it isn't the quality of the characters, just the time frame it'll take for them to be useful to the vast majority of players.
I agree with the rankings, the worst of them is likely Riri who isn't really bad. Just uninspired and a bit of a master of none. Her max health is her largest problem, not her damage output.
I've had fairly good luck with the higher tier of these releases. Current covers I have are:
3/5/4
2/3/4
1/3/3
3/0/3
2/1/4
1/3/1
1/1/2
I think the order I'd place them in is: 0 -
Colognoisseur wrote:To wrap this up Medusa, Captain Marvel, Bl4de, and Gwenpool are top tier 4* who get better the more covers and levels are put in to them. The remaining three; Agent Venom, Riri, and Mordo have significant drawbacks even though they all have potential in the right situation.
This seems like a curious comment unless we're expanding 'top tier' to include like 15 characters. I know everyone has their own kind of internal system of how to 'tier' the characters, but that seems like a pretty loose definition.
Carol/Medusa are definitely beasts, I can buy putting them with the Peggy/Iceman/RHulks of the world. Bl4de and Gwenpool though? Feels like they belong in the Moon Knight/Kate/War Machine level, which is above average but lacking a little something from being truly great.
Anyway, thanks for this series, yeah it's tough to cover these characters but its still easier than ever thanks to PvE progression and expanded PvP rewards. It's thus good to have additional perspective on who might be worth champing sooner rather than later.0 -
For GwenPool, her ability does sound powerful, to be able to remove any tile that you wish. But in both modes of competitive play, speed is essential. So unless you've used her enough that you've got the codes memorized, do you have time to reference codes in the middle of a shield hop for example? I guess if you're really serious about using her, you can print out the cheat sheet and keep a copy handy...0
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Gwenpool is not a PVP character.ChuckFan wrote:For GwenPool, her ability does sound powerful, to be able to remove any tile that you wish. But in both modes of competitive play, speed is essential. So unless you've used her enough that you've got the codes memorized, do you have time to reference codes in the middle of a shield hop for example? I guess if you're really serious about using her, you can print out the cheat sheet and keep a copy handy...0 -
ChuckFan wrote:For GwenPool, her ability does sound powerful, to be able to remove any tile that you wish. But in both modes of competitive play, speed is essential. So unless you've used her enough that you've got the codes memorized, do you have time to reference codes in the middle of a shield hop for example? I guess if you're really serious about using her, you can print out the cheat sheet and keep a copy handy...
Agreed, I really so like Gwenpool but I don't have time to look up codes.. I wish you could save Codes after discovering them, like they appear in the corner and I press that button.0 -
Hmm, nice insights as usual colog!
Gwenpool's purple does have significant utility as a targeted tile destroyer. But i am reluctant to consider her a top tier support jist because i think other support characters will just make matches shorter, even if they dont have the puzzle-y strengths if gwenpool. She is fun for variety though!
Blade is definitely a a monstrously effective damate dealer. . .IF you can collect a lot of red and/or keep red on the board. I think he falls into the punmax category: he is very powerful if you build a team to enable his damage. But he isn't quite self-sufficient enough to be trule top tier.
Medusa and carol are beastly. Best 4* releases since peggy. I note that you describe carol wity a 5/3/5 build. Thatcs a good build. But especially if you are playing her with someone like medusa or loki or peggy or torch who will produce lots of expiring CDs, a 5/5/3 build is arguably superior. The jump in her tile boosting from 3 to 5 is massive: more than 4x. Proc the yellow a couple of times with tiles on the voard and you can easily be doing 3-5k extra damage per turn. Nothing last long against that, not even 5*s. In short, there is not a bad way to build carol.
Riri is just poorly designed. Her red hits hard, but her other two powers just aren't very good.
AV is more trouble than he is worth. Potentually power uf you build a team just fo use him, but too complicated for all the reasons you listed.
Can't judge mordo yet, but seeing his full stats reduced my intetest in him relative to just reading the power descriptions. I feep like there us sonething just a little bit off about him; like his design vision didnt quite come together.0 -
I'd be interested in knowing how irrelevant the original Irrelevant Seven are nowadays? Did the metagame pass them by as quickly as was predicted?0
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Jaedenkaal wrote:I'd be interested in knowing how irrelevant the original Irrelevant Seven are nowadays? Did the metagame pass them by as quickly as was predicted?
Well, nova, quake, and punmax were the best of them. And they are all still very good. But peggy, carol, and medusa are probably better.0 -
Overall nice job on the list and great job on the summary. I disagree with Gwenpool being top tier though. Her sploits power does exactly what the OP says it does but the fact that you have to either memorize her codes or play with a cheat sheet with her lowers her value in mind. It is a very unique power and fun to play, but after a while gets tedious.
I am also a fan of agent venom. I don't think he is top tier but when fully covered can do a lot of damage and has his own game style. I think he is a character you don't realize can be good until you max cover him since at lower level covers he can hurt your team more than help0
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