Petition to Restore 4* Cyclops' Blue

Vhailorx

Recent changes to the treatment of teamup tiles have rendered cyc"s blue unable to destroy (and therefore collect) teamup tiles. Cyc is one of the few characters who really uses tu ap, and given that his threshold is 10, being able to collect a single TU tile with his blue was a useful ability. It also expanded the placement options for his blue allowing for more tactical flexibility, which really fits the feel of the character.

This change doesn't make or break the character, he should still be a strong 4*, but it does make him a bit less fun to play. I would like to see this particulat power restored fo its previous function.

Do a lot of other players feel the same way? Maybe brigby will pay attention if we get enough votes.

Crowl

This whole change is a stupid one, TU tiles are already the least desirable basic tiles for anyone to match in most situations, so why nerf characters like this.

TLCstormz

Why make a thread for this, but not Wanda, Rhodey, Moonbewbz, etc?

Ducky

Crowl wrote:

This whole change is a stupid one, TU tiles are already the least desirable basic tiles for anyone to match in most situations, so why nerf characters like this.

TU tiles aren't basic tiles per Demiurge. You can see their description of tiles here.

Stax the Foyer

DuckyV wrote:

Crowl wrote:

This whole change is a stupid one, TU tiles are already the least desirable basic tiles for anyone to match in most situations, so why nerf characters like this.

TU tiles aren't basic tiles per Demiurge. You can see their description of tiles here.

Revisionist history helpshift article aside, I would contend that TU's are the most basic of tiles.

Punisher5784

Stax the Foyer wrote:

DuckyV wrote:

Crowl wrote:

This whole change is a stupid one, TU tiles are already the least desirable basic tiles for anyone to match in most situations, so why nerf characters like this.

TU tiles aren't basic tiles per Demiurge. You can see their description of tiles here.

Revisionist history helpshift article aside, I would contend that TU's are the most basic of tiles.

From the link:
Team-up tiles - These tiles function similarly to Basic tiles, but generate Team-Up AP instead of color AP.

So they're basic tiles but give TU AP.... OK

Ducky

Punisher5784 wrote:

Stax the Foyer wrote:

DuckyV wrote:

Crowl wrote:

This whole change is a stupid one, TU tiles are already the least desirable basic tiles for anyone to match in most situations, so why nerf characters like this.

TU tiles aren't basic tiles per Demiurge. You can see their description of tiles here.

Revisionist history helpshift article aside, I would contend that TU's are the most basic of tiles.

From the link:
Team-up tiles - These tiles function similarly to Basic tiles, but generate Team-Up AP instead of color AP.

So their basic tiles but give TU AP.... OK

The also can't turn into any of these: .

Bowgentle

DuckyV wrote:

The also can't turn into any of these: .

Funnily enough, they can turn into trap tiles, though.

Crowl

DuckyV wrote:

Crowl wrote:

This whole change is a stupid one, TU tiles are already the least desirable basic tiles for anyone to match in most situations, so why nerf characters like this.

TU tiles aren't basic tiles per Demiurge. You can see their description of tiles here.

They are also not special tiles according to that link so it actually makes far more sense for them to be treated like the basic tiles they most closely work like.

OneLastGambit

I voted no on the basis that cyke blue is largely unaffected. The absolute best case scenario before was you get 1TU ap upon use.

Its hardly broken

broll

Crowl wrote:

DuckyV wrote:

Crowl wrote:

This whole change is a stupid one, TU tiles are already the least desirable basic tiles for anyone to match in most situations, so why nerf characters like this.

TU tiles aren't basic tiles per Demiurge. You can see their description of tiles here.

They are also not special tiles according to that link so it actually makes far more sense for them to be treated like the basic tiles they most closely work like.

Yeah it lists them as other tiles like crit and trap. Trap tiles can be effected by this, not sure about crit.

This is a dumb change across the board. Team up tiles should be treated as basic tiles, otherwise they are rarely more often than not just useless hinderances.

Dragon_Nexus

Crowl wrote:

This whole change is a stupid one, TU tiles are already the least desirable basic tiles for anyone to match in most situations, so why nerf characters like this.

Yeah, that was my annoyance.
Sometimes the board just filled up with TU tiles, but now they're borderline indestructable outside of matching them away (which feels like a wasted turn. Who doesn't enjoy hoarding TUs instead of the coloured AP you actually need, eh?)

I don't even understand this change. Who's it supposed to benefit? It's like they suddenly hired a pedant. "Ohhh, those moves change TU tiles, but it's only meant to change basic tiles and EVERYONE knows TUs aren't basic LOL." (for best effect read in a sterotypical nerd voice)

DapperChewie

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

I don't even understand this change. Who's it supposed to benefit? It's like they suddenly hired a pedant. "Ohhh, those moves change TU tiles, but it's only meant to change basic tiles and EVERYONE knows TUs aren't basic LOL." (for best effect read in a sterotypical nerd voice)

It's a blanket nerf aimed at slowing or suppressing various winfinite combos.

ammenell

if i was a dev and wanted to slow the game down,I would nerf switch exactly like this, then cover that winfinite specific nerf by nerfing others and laugh historically while everyone concentrates on Cyclops

Kjempen

DapperChewie wrote:

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

I don't even understand this change. Who's it supposed to benefit? It's like they suddenly hired a pedant. "Ohhh, those moves change TU tiles, but it's only meant to change basic tiles and EVERYONE knows TUs aren't basic LOL." (for best effect read in a sterotypical nerd voice)

It's a blanket nerf aimed at slowing or suppressing various winfinite combos.

I think DapperChewie hit the nail on the head.

I can't remember anyone questioning Scarlet Witch's Arcane Incantation being able to transform team up tiles, or Cyclop's Called Shot being able to target teamup tiles. This change is the developer's idea, not something requested from the player base.

Crowl

ammenell wrote:

if i was a dev and wanted to slow the game down,I would nerf switch exactly like this, then cover that winfinite specific nerf by nerfing others and laugh historically while everyone concentrates on Cyclops

They are a bit late to the winfinite party though aren't they?

Vhailorx

Crowl wrote:

ammenell wrote:

if i was a dev and wanted to slow the game down,I would nerf switch exactly like this, then cover that winfinite specific nerf by nerfing others and laugh historically while everyone concentrates on Cyclops

They are a bit late to the winfinite party though aren't they?

If you want to end winfinite, then you should NOT make changes to switch. she is not an essential part of that infinity engine.

Vhailorx

TLCstormz wrote:

Why make a thread for this, but not Wanda, Rhodey, Moonbewbz, etc?

No particular reason. Cyc wasn't hit nearly as hard switch or WM, and they have an even better case to be fixed. But the way in which this fix affects cyc is to make him a small but noticeable amount less tactically flexible. Since that flexibility is kind of the key thing that differentiates him from most other characters, I decided to make a post.

Dragon_Nexus

DapperChewie wrote:

It's a blanket nerf aimed at slowing or suppressing various winfinite combos.

And if that's the case it's about 12 months too late.
Charlie's Angels is an okay strat, still, but it relies on one of the squishiest 4*s and two 3*s, a class that has fallen out of the meta. If you lose to Charlie's Angels these days then you were either really unlucky, you tried to punch above your weight or you didn't play the match well. It's a better combo for offense, in which case why does nerfing it help anyone? I'm not helped going against it and if I used it, suddenly it's not helpful.

Surely the point of the game is to find characters that synergise, right? Why create synergies amongst characters and then say "Yeah but not THAT group of characters. We don't want you doing that."

STOPTHIS

DapperChewie wrote:

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

I don't even understand this change. Who's it supposed to benefit? It's like they suddenly hired a pedant. "Ohhh, those moves change TU tiles, but it's only meant to change basic tiles and EVERYONE knows TUs aren't basic LOL." (for best effect read in a sterotypical nerd voice)

It's a blanket nerf aimed at slowing or suppressing various winfinite combos.

Yup. They tried messing up Charlie's Angels in the past when they messed with 4* match damage and it threw a lot of vet's teams off. Now they found a way to slow down or eliminate SW, QS, and 4* Cyke on a winfinite teams. Sure others like War Machine and Moonstone suffer too, but I think that's just a side effect of their true goal.

Incredibly frustrating in light that the devs have been a doing a great job updating characters over the last few months. And we largely praised the devs when they said they weren't going to nerf anyone when it came to character updates. Now obviously this isn't a character overhaul, but it is a nerf and rough one at that.

Dragon_Nexus

This is starting to feel like the whole True Healing thing again.

It's really weird to me that this is being done. I mean, it's not like it's closing an exploit that was breaking the game economy or the game balance. It's not like 5* or 4* players were falling by the thousands to this inescapable, broken, horrendous winfinite combo that you couldn't stop once it started. The change doesn't benefit us. Hell I don't think it really hinders us. Sure, a bunch of characters are less useful now, but the net result of that is people just don't use them at all. Instead they look for the next dominant strategy and focus on that.