I think it's time to "fix" IM40.

Andre_Leca_89

therightwaye wrote:

Andre MPQ wrote:

LOL this is one of the worst posts I've ever read, if you don't want to use him because he is powerful LOL don't use him plain and simple as far as I am concerned Dr Strange is the most over used character I have going I only use IM40 when needed, WHEN NEEDED

Kind of a jerk response with little to add.

if that is what you think

Anon

Scarlet Witch is way more annoying.

DrDevilDinosaur

Dormammu wrote:

DrDevilDinosaur wrote:

I'd also suggest that his Blue is still underpowered and overcosted

Overcosted? Maybe, but one Recharge can get you 12 of the 16AP needed, so it's pretty far from being unusable. Underpowered? No. With 5 in blue it does 3500+ damage, which is on par with the top group attacks in the 3-star tier - Kamala (12AP) & Panther (12AP). (Thanos outdoes them all, but with the added frustration of self-damage or a flimsy countdown.)

Everyone's so busy using IM40 as a battery that I think it's sometimes forgotten that he's also capable of dealing heavy damage for his tier.

I'll agree that Unibeam is a strong attack - even unboosted, and even considering the AP drain. But I'll also maintain that I think you're giving Ballistic Salvo a little bit too much credit - although I probably should have used "or". For its cost, Salvo doesn't deliver. GSBW's Sniper Rifle deals ~4200 damage (not including tile destruction) for a comparable cost and without additional AP drain. She can also accelerate the AP necessary to use the ability.

In its defense, Salvo is like the second best offensive Blue ability in the 3* tier, but there's not really much competition there. You've got Magneto's Magnetized Projectiles, and while using Recharge to fuel Mags is a good way to keep tiles on the board, it's not leaving a whole bunch of room for diverse team builds.

So I guess my stance on the ability is that it should either do more or cost less. Part of what makes Recharge so "strong" is that players aren't saving that AP for IM40. It might be worth holding onto the Red for 2 turns while he's stunned, but Blue is getting lumped in with Green and Purple and being used by anyone else for literally any other purpose. Ultimately, you need Salvo at rank 5 to deal any significant damage, and that means either Recharge (his best ability) or Unibeam (his second best ability) has to be less than 5. Some people will say "it's ok to have only two good abilities", but I don't buy into that. By far, my favourite characters have three good abilities which I have to choose between.

I kinda got a bit ranty there, and maybe a bit off track - now I want to go and write up a full redesign for IM40.

Teskal

I really see no need to fix a working character like IM40.

There are many others who need a fix or some colors from some characters, which are (nearly) never used or set on power level 5.

1* Iron Man's blue is pretty useless
1* Venom
Bagman
3* Spidey, but not his yellow
Most other Webslingers
2* Cap Marvel
2* Moonstone
Sentry
Psylocke
Ragnarok's Blue and Red maybe a little bit. Blue should create new greens and not modify green only....

IndoneSHIELD

Don't you dare to nerf IM40. For transitioning player 3* to 4* he is a must. He's vital for players who doesn't have many 4* and 5* rosters. There's no right for you to sacrifice them for your personal pleasure.

Crowl

Beyond the need for more varied batteries, if they could actually manage to reduce the importance of speed to the competitive modes then that would also reduce the importance of batteries e.g. going through gauntlet nodes today I was happy to not use a battery on the essential nodes because it didn't matter if I took a bit longer to clear and there was more benefits to other support tasks.

Nick441234

Anon wrote:

Scarlet Witch is way more annoying.

That I totally agree with. Constantly having to watch that countdown timer and trying to match it away is far more of a hassle than just stopping yellow matches.

carrion_pigeons

This thread is ridiculous.

"I want IM40 to be the best battery in the game for only enough colors top make him a top tier character, and not so many that he stops anyone else from being a comparable battery for other colors for other teams"

"Noooooooooooooo don't touch him I need all my AP even though I end most matches with 30 in at least one color if I can't do that then he'll be unplayable trash just go play one of the other batteries that don't exist"

Tiger_Wong

How about we start his yellow needing 8 AP but for each Team Iron Man character on the team, the AP needed drops by 1?

Khanwulf

The idea of introducing power-swapping tech to IM40 is excellent. He was introduced before the Devs had that capability, which is why he just stuns himself.

He could easily swap all/most of his powers to alternate forms that burn green and purple for 2 or 3 turns, before switching back. That would make him a more interesting character without reducing his utility as a battery for players who just want that feature.

IM40 swiss-army armor, go!

--Khanwulf

firethorne

ErikPeter wrote:

"You don't have to use him", fine advice, but if I face him in half the PvP matches I go into, that's dull too. He's definitely OP--but that's not really what I'm complaining about. Someone has to be the best. Fine. I just want some variety in PvP.

The problem with this is not with IM40 though. It is with the way PvP itself is structured. It feels as if I've said this dozens of times. The way they've structured PvP is antithetical to promoting diversity. It does the exact opposite.

IM40 isn't really that strong. Most teams that use him are fairly easy to pick apart, and don't work well when a human is fighting against them. The same goes for winfinite. IM40 is prevalent for one reason. Because he speeds up other stronger characters.

There are dozens of capable alternatives that could win matches. On paper, they're better than IM40. But, they cannot win a match as fast as necessary to prevent getting hit and losing points. No matter what team you're using, the AI is stupid, and you shouldn't expect to win any match on defense. So, the game is all about how quickly you can win, and get back to a shield. Frankly, it is a bad design.

So, the problem you have is that nerfing IM40 won't change that broken design. It will just force everyone to whatever the next fast combination seems to be, and you'll be left with a new coat of paint on the exact same problem. As long as the game is about getting your points and getting back to a shield, the slower more tactical teams will always take a back seat to quick batteries and nukes. You'll never get the variety you're looking for under this system. For that to change, you'll need to change the very way PvP is set up. And I think that should be done, mind you. I just don't think it will happen. And changing IM40 will just make people mad, while doing absolutely nothing to get you any closer to this idyllic utopia of PvP diversity.

OneLastGambit

It's an interesting debate and one I've had with myself many times (i am not crazy) during my 3* transition he was invaluable and even a bit during my 4* transition too but then when I started playing 4* For real I realised the best way to avoid hits....was to ditch him and find pairs of 4s that work together. Taking a 3* into mid-high end pvp is asking for hits.

I do agree that he makes the game a bit dull and I actually don't rely on accelerators (unless I'm using falcap) so I don't need im40. I don't think a nerf is the option though. Diversity is created by increasing not by detracting. Introduce some new accelerator skills in both 3* and 4* tiers instead and watch as people stop using him as much.

Or maybe change him to generate black and/or pink instead of green (yeah I know he generated pink already but he does so feebly) and give the green gen to someone else.

I think when you're firmly in 4* land you'll pretty much only use him when speed climbing and when either ice or goddess is boosted. Otherwise you'll simply pick 2 4s instead

snlf25

No! No nerfs, only buffs.

DrDevilDinosaur

With the recent "nerf" to Switch (her CD no longer converts TU tiles - after playing a few matches against her, she's close to useless now) I think all eyes are going to be on IM40.

I'll reiterate my point of view; that giving IM40 a good reason to use that AP for him, rather than for a teammate, is definitely the way to go.

ErikPeter

Thanks to everyone who contributed constructively to this discussion so far. It's been a good read. Hopefully the devs can extend their recent tendency to make really strong options (since the IM40 Buff, Star-Lord Buff, Medusa's AP gains, etc) to more 3-star batteries.

TetsujinOni

High-powered AP accelerators in the 4* and 5* tiers:

Miles self-accelerates.

Medusa has devastating AP generation in her on colors.

TGT self-accelerates but frequently shows up with IM40 in tow to provide her bootstrap AP

Mordo and Cho both accelerate using the charged tiles mechanic....

Red Hulk self-accelerates by AP transformation.

As do Black Bolt and Surfer.

There's some significant variety in how the gathering and acceleration occur (and at the cost of what); but there is significant non-IM40 AP manipulation already.

Alsmir

Hahah, IM40 is an issue in PvP. That's a new one. Ok, here you go, a top-tier advice:

When you face team with IM40, make sure to collect yellow ap and not let the enemy AI match it.



There you go. Have fun smashing those IM40 teams, like everyone else is doing right now.

Lukoil

I only ise IM40 with following rules:
1) There is no 4* championed boosted characters for me (IM + Thoress or IM + Iceman here we go)
2) There is only one championed boosted character and he is green user.
If there are 2 boosted championed 4* i usually take them for pvp and put IM on the bench.

ErikPeter

Alsmir wrote:

Hahah, IM40 is an issue in PvP. That's a new one. Ok, here you go, a top-tier advice:

When you face team with IM40, make sure to collect yellow ap and not let the enemy AI match it.



There you go. Have fun smashing those IM40 teams, like everyone else is doing right now.

Super helpful.

We all see different people in pvp based on our progression, and so any given player's commentary applies to a slice of the playerbase. If you're playing at 420+ this doesn't apply to you. If you're playing below 330, it probably doesn't apply either since IM40's probably generating for himself which isn't a big deal.

As a player with a couple 360s and some 280 4-stars, I've probably got one or two powered up 4-champs to use in a given PvP, and maybe not much synergy with each other or the featured character. So I'm probably not using a 5 (though they would match down IM40 faster), and I might even be stuck using a non-powered up 4 champ like IW or Jean or even Fistbuster. I face IM40 as a support all the time. At the top of my climb in Too Many Sorcerers 3 out of 4 skips were Peggy/IM, even though IM wasn't powered up in the event.

Often when I risk IM40/Peggy (and basically every time when IM40's powered up to 21k health) the enemy AI can cascade into 6 undeniable yellow before I can kill him which means I get Peggy'd. Red+Blue is 40k+ damage on the board with two of your teammates stunned or down while you try to answer for it. And I don't even want to nerf that combo at all--IM40's red/blue generation and cost is fine, Peggy's what makes it so brutal, and I haven't started a 'nerf Peggy' thread.

IM40/Iceman is also a pain, 10k AoE plus stun lock. IM40/Jean, probably cost me health packs if Recharge goes off. Those are thanks to his green; basically what it comes down to is that when he's powered up (or even when he's not), there's always some powered-up 4 who will get the most out of him, so he's just always around. It'd be cool to see other sick combos instead; You know, something like, "give Psylocke the ability to lower Purple costs by 50%" so I can be frustrated by Jean/Psylocke or Star-Locke teams also.

Finally bringing it around to your comment again, "Match yellow so he can't Recharge" isn't a super exciting meta. There ya go.

Punisher5784

ErikPeter wrote:

IM40/Jean, probably cost me health packs if Recharge goes off. Those are thanks to his green; basically what it comes down to is that when he's powered up (or even when he's not), there's always some powered-up 4 who will get the most out of him, so he's just always around. It'd be cool to see other sick combos instead; You know, something like, "give Psylocke the ability to lower Purple costs by 50%" so I can be frustrated by Jean/Psylocke or Star-Locke teams also.

Finally bringing it around to your comment again, "Match yellow so he can't Recharge" isn't a super exciting meta. There ya go.

Oh you mean SW?

I use SW, JG and SL. Works great in PVE against goons. I have completely replaced using IM40 with SL against enemy teams with a goon but in PVP, I don't want my opponent to use a power so SL doesn't become as useful in PVP in my opinion.