Additional, or "Bonus", damage is being treated as a second attack. [By Design]

DeNappa

Yeah, multi-part damaging powers currently process in their individual parts. In your advantage this means that you can sometimes damage or down multiple enemies in one go. That's probably what happened here:
Deal base damage of (say) 4000 -> downs Daken -> Deal extra damage of 5x(say)800 = another 4000 damage-> downs Bullseye.

(It can also work to your disadvantage, for example when facing someone who triggers on taking damage like 2Storm or Cpt Marvel or Hulk) .

I'm not sure what the official status on this is, at one point when this was brought up they claimed it was a bug but 'very hard to fix', but I don't see it back in the Bug Status list thread.

Maybe a redshirt can comment? (@Brigby or @Tombstone)


/edit: did some digging around. Apparently the current status is 'bug, devs aware': 
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/58700/additional-or-bonus-damage-is-being-treated-as-a-second-attack-devs-aware/p2

Jaedenkaal

Yeah there are several powers that are affected by the bug that affects Kingpin black.

Dayv

[Making this post sticky (an announcement, in the new forum's syntax) as new threads are still being opened on various powers affected by this.]

[Merging many threads.]

drag0n41

I think the issue started just before Iron Fist 4* was released, I think powers with multiple conditions changed since then, it seems the formula for the attacks changed from having the "if" portion of the ability moved from the time the power is cast to where the "if" comes up on the wording.

This looks like the devs creating a new power with Iron Fist 4* Chi Focus, where the text of the power lists a Then check for strikes, rather than If there is so many strikes when the power is cast.

Bowgentle

I thought this was fixed now?

In PVE the AI used a Daken team-up and it still did the old one-two with his strikes instead of dealing a lump sum of damage.

Skrofa

The thing about daken though is that he is supposed to do that. It's in the power's description!
Deals damage, then converts blue to green, then converts strikes to basic to deal damage again.

Bowgentle

Skrofa said:

The thing about daken though is that he is supposed to do that. It's in the power's description!
Deals damage, then converts blue to green, then converts strikes to basic to deal damage again.

No he isn't.

Check the release notes, they said they fixed it.
Same for Kingpin and probably all the rest too.

Skrofa

Bowgentle said:

Skrofa said:

The thing about daken though is that he is supposed to do that. It's in the power's description!
Deals damage, then converts blue to green, then converts strikes to basic to deal damage again.

No he isn't.

Check the release notes, they said they fixed it.
Same for Kingpin and probably all the rest too.

I know what they said, I did check the release notes. You can also check the power's description and see for yourself. The way it is written it is implied that this is the way he is supposed to work.

Dayv

Skrofa said:

The thing about daken though is that he is supposed to do that. It's in the power's description!
Deals damage, then converts blue to green, then converts strikes to basic to deal damage again.

It's true, that's exactly how it's written.  This is why when the power first started behaving the way it was (and maybe still is?), I wasn't totally sure it should even be considered a bug.  A lot of the other affected powers definitely seemed wrong, though.

Tombstone

Hm... this text does imply normal gameplay functionality. Both Daken (Dark Avengers)'s and Daken (Classic)'s Chemical Reaction (Blue) ability specifically says that it will deal damage, then convert blue to green, then convert strike tiles into basic tiles, then deal damage per strike tile converted. So the power is unlike other instances of bonus or additional damage other characters have. 

However, we shouldn't assume this information based on text alone. We all know what happened with that during the issue with Rocket & Groot (Awesome Mix Vol. 2)'s Don't Push This Button (Green) power and passive.

I'm going to ask this question with the rest of the team and will let you guys know once I've received more information regarding the Chemical Reaction's power description. We should have this information for you by tomorrow.

keitterman

Although Daken's power is stated like that, it's assumed that it is a linear sequence of events, instead of simply a list of simultaneous effects. 

I would argue that without the word "then" anywhere in the description, it's presumptuous to assume they would happen as sequential, separate events instead of just all of the things that will happen as one event. 

Felonius

That is text taken from my 2* Daken (but I checked my 3* and damage amounts are the only difference).

• Daken springs a trap, but his addiction to "Heat" threatens to push him over the edge.  Deals 643 damage to the target, converts 2 basic Blue tiles to Green, and converts up to 2 friendly Strike tiles to basic tiles, dealing 369 damage per Strike tile converted.

The first sentence is flavor text and irrelevant.  The second sentence describes what the power does.  And what's most important to consider here is that it is ONE SENTENCE.  As written it is a list of things done simultaneously.  Look at the comma placement.  I mean no disrespect to @Skrofa, but I think he's incorrect.  I agree with @keitterman, if there was a "then" there and/or the damage details were in multiple sentences, then I could see an argument against simultaneous effect.  As-is, as one sentence, without a "then", it all should happen at once.  Further, before the bug, the power worked simultaneously, which I believe sets the precedence for how it should work.

Regarding Kingpin and his Wilson's Gambit power which the R129 also said was fixed (but was not):

• The Kingpin pushes one of his pawns forward in a sacrifice play to fuel a savage reprisal.  Kingpin deals 2678 damage to the target.  If there is a friendly Countdown tile on the board, Kingpin removes it and deals an additional 3431 damage.

Here again the first sentence is flavor text that can be ignored.  How Kingpin differs from Daken is that his power's damage is listed in two different sentences.  There still is not a "then" in there to make the power effect crystal clear, but as written, I could see an argument for either simultaneous or linear effects.  That being said, as with Daken, before the bug this power used to work simultaneously, which sets the precedence for how it should work now. 

@Tombstone, I look forward to hearing what you and the team decide, but the above are my thoughts/opinion.  However you guys decide, I suggest clarifying the texts.  Thanks in advance!

Jaedenkaal

keitterman said:

Although Daken's power is stated like that, it's assumed that it is a linear sequence of events, instead of simply a list of simultaneous effects. 

I would argue that without the word "then" anywhere in the description, it's presumptuous to assume they would happen as sequential, separate events instead of just all of the things that will happen as one event. 

I would agree with this. There's no good way in english to describe multiple things happening at the same time without using commas. Daken's power description clearly states that he:

Deals {x} damage to the target,<br>converts 2 Basic Blue tiles to Green,<br>AND converts up to {n} friendly Strike tiles to basic tiles, dealing {y} damage per Strike tile converted.

There is ample reason to assume that these 3 things should happen simultaneously (as there's no way in english to explain this otherwise without tacking an explanatory clause on the end) and there's no reason whatsoever to assume that between steps 2 and 3 the board should be allowed to settle, possibly creating new Strike tiles that will then be consumed by step 3.

Compare to Iron Fist black, which:

Converts up to {n} friendly Protect tiles to Strike tiles,<br>THEN deals {x} damage.

Or even 4* Luke Cage Yellow (which predates IF4 by some time) which says that it:

Fortifies up to {n} friendly special tiles,<br>THEN deals {x} damage for each Fortified friendly special tile on the board,<br>if IF is an active ally, create a strength {y} Protect tile FIRST.

Again, the order of operations is clearly spelled out (in english).

@Tombstone said:

Hm... this text does imply normal gameplay functionality. Both Daken (Dark Avengers)'s and Daken (Classic)'s Chemical Reaction (Blue) ability specifically says that it will deal damage, then convert blue to green, then convert strike tiles into basic tiles, then deal damage per strike tile converted. So the power is unlike other instances of bonus or additional damage other characters have. 

Not true, as Keitterman and I have both outlined above.

Tombstone said:

However, we shouldn't assume this information based on text alone. We all know what happened with that during the issue with Rocket & Groot (Awesome Mix Vol. 2)'s Don't Push This Button (Green) power and passive.

So... if your in-game power descriptions don't accurately explain what the powers do, then, to paraphrase Stephen Fry... What are they for??

Tombstone

Hey guys, the developers are currently discussing this functionality regarding both Daken (Dark Avengers)'s and Daken (Classic)'s Chemical Reaction (Blue) power. 

We understand that neither of these powers use the "additional damage" text like in other powers experiencing the double damage issue, and that it almost sounds like it is functioning as intended. Rest assured that the developers are currently discussing this power's functionality and ability description. While we don't have any information yet, we should have an update on this in the near future. We thank you for your patience in the meantime.

zodiac339

The odder thing is not just that it wasn't fixed, but that there is actually a more pronounced delay between the piecemeal functions of the power.

Lytes420

The funny thing if this is actually the way it's supposed to function,why did it take two years or so for them to finally have it working as intended.

Jaedenkaal

Lytes420 said:

The funny thing if this is actually the way it's supposed to function,why did it take two years or so for them to finally have it working as intended.

Sounds like a new development team fixing things that weren't broken.

Jaedenkaal

Still Sharp still not fixed as of r130; killed two Hand ninjas with a single use of it yesterday.

zodiac339

Jaedenkaal said:

Still Sharp still not fixed as of r130; killed two Hand ninjas with a single use of it yesterday.

Same with Chemical Reaction. It seems like they're trying to fix individual problems rather than figure out what they changed in the system that caused this problem.

Jaedenkaal

zodiac339 said:

Jaedenkaal said:

Still Sharp still not fixed as of r130; killed two Hand ninjas with a single use of it yesterday.

Same with Chemical Reaction. It seems like they're trying to fix individual problems rather than figure out what they changed in the system that caused this problem.

I suspect they know what changed in the system, and can't reverse it because they're using it to make other powers (Chi Focus or Like Unto Iron, say) work as intended.