*** Daken (Classic) ***

Unknown

I like the idea with a modification.

Let's say Daken needs 5 blue to avoid Heat damage. Once you're 5+ blue, you start getting Healing. Rather than taking blue off the board, every time he gets Healing, it should consume 1 blue AP from the player rather than the board. That way, you can't just sit on him with 5 blue and have him heal forever. His high has to end, and he has to go looking for his drug, plus he doesn't get immediate synergy from a character that requires a higher amount of blue for their active, as his addiction can impact their progression in just a few turns.

Unknown

I actually liek this a lot, i works thematically and creates a mroe interesting behavior to play to with the skill. Rather than making you not want to match a color, it makes you WANT that color, but also have consequences around using too much of that color.

I like the idea of passive skills being based off AP current totals anyway.

Unknown

And it works a lot like Flame Jet, so they have the coding to do it without much work.

Unknown

It's interesting, but not exactly on character. Daken's healing ability is natural, and so doesn't need anything to kick in.

The drug Heat actually **** his healing ability. Using the drug Heat lets him fight like crazy for a while (Instant damage), but leaves him weakened (less blue, less strike tiles)

Heat doesn't heal.

simonsez

I'm going to guess that the people who like this idea aren't using a Daken

over_clocked

I think Healing and Heat conveys the 'Drugs are bad' message well enough in its current form I had my 5/5/3 lazy Daken OD in a particularly unlucky blue-starved match, which has never happened before with his 2* brother (hello, Chemical Reaction).

GuntherBlobel

Ever since the Rag nerf, I've been of the opinion that D3 should simply NOT sell "ability upgrades."

How can D3 reserve the right to balance character abilities when they advertise a precise in game effect at purchase? It looks to me very much like false advertising (even if changes are for the "greater good"). When you buy a random cover, on the other hand, it is hard to argue that any particular in game effect was promised at purchase. Specific ability purchases are a problematic form of monetization. Notice that HearthStone does not let you directly purchase specific cards (and still they compensate for any card change).

I'm sure D3 has some defense against my reasoning, but they simply need to look at how their customers react. They feel cheated, and yet D3 has refused to change their ways. That's bad business, period.

Unknown

fidsah wrote:

I like the idea with a modification.

Let's say Daken needs 5 blue to avoid Heat damage. Once you're 5+ blue, you start getting Healing. Rather than taking blue off the board, every time he gets Healing, it should consume 1 blue AP from the player rather than the board. That way, you can't just sit on him with 5 blue and have him heal forever. His high has to end, and he has to go looking for his drug, plus he doesn't get immediate synergy from a character that requires a higher amount of blue for their active, as his addiction can impact their progression in just a few turns.

That is pretty good, but I think if this is something they would do, slightly increase his healing to compinsate.

Nellyson

Mawtful wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

<snip>
Take Daken for example. Perhaps instead of nerfing him completely, what if you made his weaknesses weaker, like his Heat. Instead of messing with # of tiles etc. which completely changes the character, why not say Heat does 4% damage of max life. That way it would take more than one Heal to override 2 Heats.
<snip>

I was thinking that Healing & Heat should be altered to have a minimum required AP on hand before the Healing kicks in - the same way that Falcon requires a minimum AP on hand before Redwing takes flight.

Daken is supposed to be addicted to "Heat" right? So he starts off a match and he's "craving" a hit - taking dmg/turn in game terms - until he gets that hit he needs - X Blue AP (5? probably 5). Let Chemical Reaction work in much the same way: if it still costs 5 Blue, that will likely be enough to push him back into Heat again, and it'll actually take away some of the Blue tiles on the board, making it harder each time to get back to a "normal" state - more or less like addiction, each time you get that hit it "takes"/"requires" a little bit more of you each time, and soon you "need" it just to feel normal.

</thoughts>

Thoughts:
This is a great idea! Except you would probably need to change it a little otherwise the AI is just going to kill himself no matter what and that's not right. What I would do is up his power cost or lower the number of tiles required. 5 is difficult since it's too easy to go one way or the other. I would make it 4 blue tiles before healing starts. After that, I'd change the Chemical Reaction to cost 7 AP. Not a huge increase, but enough to possibly give you leftover blue AP to try to avoid Heat. Overall tho, I love that idea rather than having X number of tiles on the board. Or, if Chemical RX causes more blue tiles to turn to green tiles or maybe even turn them to purple. But that seems complicated and unlikely to happen. Love the idea tho!

acescracked

Can someone confirm this or tell me I'm nuts. Using ldaken in a PvE node, I use chemical reaction and I *lost* two red AP. I tried this three times. Using psylocke was easy to tell since only 7 ap needed for her red. Psylockes red bar was full, used ldakens blue, and psylockes red was no longer full.

I don't see this restriction in ldakens ability summary.

Lemme know...thanks!

mags1587

You're not nuts, I think you just forgot to take into account that Psylocke's red cost varies based on how many strike tiles are on the board. So when you cast Chemical Reaction, it removed strike tiles, and upped the cost of Psylocke's power.

acescracked

mags1587 wrote:

You're not nuts, I think you just forgot to take into account that Psylocke's red cost varies based on how many strike tiles are on the board. So when you cast Chemical Reaction, it removed strike tiles, and upped the cost of Psylocke's power.

Ahh, you are correct. Rushing thru all these events I didn't pay close enough attention. Just did a match in ssim and I had same red AP. It was just the node in PvE that required psylocke, it looked like I lost two ap when her red just went up 2 AP.

Thanks, and doh on me.

Unknown

We ever getting those Daken changes?

Phaserhawk

I think I'm okay with the Daken changes, although I wished they wouldn't have both changed his tile strength and nerfed his strike tiles. At least now gathering green will be a risk for the other team, instead of Daken grabs it, and heals. Too bad we don't have a decent purple user, however, if you level Fury appropriately, Daken can tank blue and purple for him now. And if they make blue his strongest color and purple the second strongest he will be able to tank for Fury even if Fury is maxed, not bad, hopefully. This also lets him pair better with his Daddy

Trisul

Phaserhawk wrote:

I think I'm okay with the Daken changes, although I wished they wouldn't have both changed his tile strength and nerfed his strike tiles. At least now gathering green will be a risk for the other team, instead of Daken grabs it, and heals. Too bad we don't have a decent purple user, however, if you level Fury appropriately, Daken can tank blue and purple for him now. And if they make blue his strongest color and purple the second strongest he will be able to tank for Fury even if Fury is maxed, not bad, hopefully. This also lets him pair better with his Daddy

According to IceIX, it's black > purple > blue.

Phaserhawk

Trisul wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

I think I'm okay with the Daken changes, although I wished they wouldn't have both changed his tile strength and nerfed his strike tiles. At least now gathering green will be a risk for the other team, instead of Daken grabs it, and heals. Too bad we don't have a decent purple user, however, if you level Fury appropriately, Daken can tank blue and purple for him now. And if they make blue his strongest color and purple the second strongest he will be able to tank for Fury even if Fury is maxed, not bad, hopefully. This also lets him pair better with his Daddy

According to IceIX, it's black > purple > blue.

Right, he said Changed color strengths from Black/Green/Purple to Black/Purple/Blue to match ability colors. However from highest to lowest as of now it's actually Green/Black/Purple. So the order he listed them in is not the order of the strength. Assuming blue subs green, then he would be Blue/Black/Purple

Trisul

Phaserhawk wrote:

Right, he said Changed color strengths from Black/Green/Purple to Black/Purple/Blue to match ability colors. However from highest to lowest as of now it's actually Green/Black/Purple. So the order he listed them in is not the order of the strength. Assuming blue subs green, then he would be Blue/Black/Purple

I REALLY hope you're right, but this post makes it seem pretty clearly that his new strengths are Black > Purple > Blue.

whitecat31

Apparently his green damage is now 13 blue is 61 Purple is now 70 and Black is 79 yellow is still 11 and red is still 12. Max tile str is only 46.

Unknown

Having black as highest color is very good because this is the only color X Force cannot chain into another color. To do a Surgical Strike into Rage of the Panther (which is kind of wasteful on colors) would require black tile on board + your AP >= 23 AP, which is an awful a lot of AP.

Unknown

acescracked wrote:

Can someone confirm this or tell me I'm nuts. Using ldaken in a PvE node, I use chemical reaction and I *lost* two red AP. I tried this three times. Using psylocke was easy to tell since only 7 ap needed for her red. Psylockes red bar was full, used ldakens blue, and psylockes red was no longer full.

I don't see this restriction in ldakens ability summary.

Lemme know...thanks!

Psylocke red require less ap if you have strike tile on board. You use daken CR that remove strike tile so obviously her ap cost go up.