Day 143 - will I ever be able to compete in PvP?

MarkersMake

Chrono_Tata wrote:

Orchedelia wrote:

As far as hitting 575 or 800 or whatever...I'm just talking about trying to compete in A SINGLE MATCH....like, one 31-point match.
I tried a couple tonight....yep...just pissing in the wind again.....

That's a problem for you right there. Never play 31-point matches. The "equilibrium" point (where you are hitting an opponent who has the same score as you) is 38 points. If you are hitting someone for less than 38 points, you are putting yourself on their retaliation queue and basically painting a target on yourself for them to hit you back for more points than you gained from hitting them. As a general rule only play matches that earn you 40 points or more.

As other has mentioned PvP is all about playing smart not playing hard. There are a few tricks you can learn as you go along and there are plenty of resources here on the forum.

Sorry, it was my impression that this rule of thumb only applies when you are above 800 points. Is it actually true right from zero?

Also, to the OP: I have a comparable roster to yours (after twice as many days, lol) and I play pvp regularly, reaching 4k each season and averaging about 400 points (at event end) which is typically t100 and occasionally t50 if I wait to join until the last 90 minutes or so. I regularly hit 575, sometimes 650, and 725 a few times, depending on who is boosted. So that's probably a good range for you to reach for.

Be patient, skip a LOT to find worthwhile targets (don't worry about the cost), and have fun! Lots of good advice in this thread. Also, KK/IM40/CMags is a nice combo when IM40 isn't broken, particularly in shield simulator where nobody is boosted.

Vhailorx

Never play a pvp match worth less than 40 points unless you have absolutely no other option.

Ignore the skip tax entirely and skip until you find a better opponent.

Pants1000

I'm not a PVP expert, but I think it's fine to play some matches for lower than 40 points. I'm usually playing with a 390 OML and a champed 4* boosted to 370ish. I'll hit level 270-300 unboosted 4's and boosted 3's all day long for 25-35 points. I can usually win 2 of those matches faster than a single match against 40k health 4's. Yes it puts me in their retaliation list, but 98% of those rosters will skip me. Almost all of my losses come from rosters stronger than mine.

Now if I can fine a weak opponent worth 40+, of course I hit that instead.

Vhailorx

Pants1000 wrote:

I'm not a PVP expert, but I think it's fine to play some matches for lower than 40 points. I'm usually playing with a 390 OML and a champed 4* boosted to 370ish. I'll hit level 270-300 unboosted 4's and boosted 3's all day long for 25-35 points. I can usually win 2 of those matches faster than a single match against 40k health 4's. Yes it puts me in their retaliation list, but 98% of those rosters will skip me. Almost all of my losses come from rosters stronger than mine.

Now if I can fine a weak opponent worth 40+, of course I hit that instead.

Sure, one can curb stomp opponents clearly beneath your roster with little risk of retaliation. But not many people have 390+ 5*s and champ 4*s to use for that purpose. Tc is 3* only. He or she should definitely avoid low point matches.

Pongie

It took me 8 months before I started playing in pvp. Your roster is coming along nicely. Don't fret, your time will come soon enough. In the mean time, join towards the end of the events (say within the last 30mins) and make a mad dash for 400. Your aim should be the season 10 pack at 4000 (if you don't make 400 every event, remember you still have shield sim to make up the short fall). Don't bother spending on HP on shields, you'll need HP to go towards every roster slot you can get.

Borstock

Expectation really is everything. I have 14 four star champs and I rarely break 800. I've only broken 900 three times. But I can hit 650 every time and I can hit 4000 overall each season for the heroic 10 pack reward. Everything after that I just consider gravy.

Polares

Borstock wrote:

Expectation really is everything. I have 14 four star champs and I rarely break 800. I've only broken 900 three times. But I can hit 650 every time and I can hit 4000 overall each season for the heroic 10 pack reward. Everything after that I just consider gravy.

I agree. I think Devs need to seriously consider removing 800 to max progression rewards from lower SCLs. People in SCL1-4 is NEVER EVER going to be able to reach 1200 or even the 800 one. People in these lower SCLs see these prices and they get frustrated because they can't reach them. There is no point in showing them these prices when it is not possible for them to get those.

Maybe if SCL also governed who you play against, instead of MMR, people would be able to reach those, but I don't think so.

smkspy

Borstock wrote:

Expectation really is everything. I have 14 four star champs and I rarely break 800. I've only broken 900 three times. But I can hit 650 every time and I can hit 4000 overall each season for the heroic 10 pack reward. Everything after that I just consider gravy.

Yep, last night reminded me of why I hated pvp again. Got to around 750, and for every lousy 30 point match I won (at the expense of resources often) I lost 50-100 points. After about 7 or 8 matches like that, I broke past 800 but could not hit 900. Then in the span of ten minutes I lost over 300 points.

PVP is still a highly **** mode and way too complicated. I would mind if I were able to get in and get that 4 star and get out, but as it stands the entire mode is just a huge resource sink whether it's boosts, health packs, or shields. Last night was a stark reminder that pvp is just not fun to play.

broll

Day 310, it's getting better.

I can now usually hit the 600-700 progression mark without too much effort. Placing is still far too costly/time consuming to be worth it though.

I focus PvE, until you have a strong 4* team the PvP deck is stacked against you. I do PvP when I have time with a goal of hitting highest progression each event and at least getting the 10 pack from the season progression.

elusive

I'm at day 1009 and have never gotten past 900 points.

Chrono_Tata

MarkersMake wrote:

Chrono_Tata wrote:

Orchedelia wrote:

As far as hitting 575 or 800 or whatever...I'm just talking about trying to compete in A SINGLE MATCH....like, one 31-point match.
I tried a couple tonight....yep...just pissing in the wind again.....

That's a problem for you right there. Never play 31-point matches. The "equilibrium" point (where you are hitting an opponent who has the same score as you) is 38 points. If you are hitting someone for less than 38 points, you are putting yourself on their retaliation queue and basically painting a target on yourself for them to hit you back for more points than you gained from hitting them. As a general rule only play matches that earn you 40 points or more.

As other has mentioned PvP is all about playing smart not playing hard. There are a few tricks you can learn as you go along and there are plenty of resources here on the forum.

Sorry, it was my impression that this rule of thumb only applies when you are above 800 points. Is it actually true right from zero?

The way I see it, this rule of thumb applies even more when you are at lower points. If you are climbing at around 700+ points and the guy you hit when you were at 300-something points just started playing and decided to retaliate, you would be losing quite a bit of points. Basically, the more lower-point opponents there are who have you queued up, the more likely you are to lose more points climbing.

But yeah as others have pointed out, there are situations where you have to settle with lower point targets (when you are fighting for top placement mostly), but I think the OP isn't at the point where they need to do that yet. Usually if you have run out of beatable 40+ points opponents to fight it's usually a good time to shield up.

Linkster79

Use shield SIM to cover your skip tax expenses in season events, no on is bothered by how many times they get hit there until the last few days. CMags, Hood and MStorm while offering a good retaliation is great for beating almost any team.

Forget season versus event placement rewards, unless you have a pit of HP it's just not going to happen. Focus on finishing each event with a minimum of 400 points and try to go for higher pregression rewards on the way. It is possible to get higher placement by playing late joining bracket roulette but that is a high risk/high reward strategy.

Alkyoneus

Lots of good advice here. Keep at it, this game is about incremental rewards. For you, most of your rewards are going to come from hitting story mode every day, getting 4x hits in then 2x at the end for all 6 rewards. Join an alliance where everyone plays daily, if you get kicked out then just keep looking. You'll find a home.

The other advice I would absolutely give you is to horde every until you're ready to move into the 4-star and 5-star world, if you can. For me, that mean you've champed well over 50% of your 3-stars and have at least a few covers of most (say 75%) of the 4-stars in the game. If you use your and pull 5-stars, they will either rot on your roster (classics are so diluted you will never get more than 1 cover of any 5-star) or cause your scaling to go too high for the game to be easy. It's a huge waste of and frustrating because you can't really use them. A lot of people have had to sell their 5-stars characters because of the scaling problems that come with them relative to the rest of your roster. Don't spend your on anything beside character slots and the occasional shield at the end of a PVP event if you managed to place well.

If you save all of your and until that point, you'll be ready to make a massive jump in both your roster depth and strength. Good luck!

alphabeta

No

Well not without dropping 50k into the game

mega ghost

I'm on Day 858 and have 11 champed 4* characters. It's extremely rare that I play PVP for placement, and when I do it's top 25, maybe top 10 if I'm dedicated. Generally I just play for progression. If it's a character I don't like playing with, I go to 300 points for the token and to stay on track for season progression rewards. If I like the character, I go to 575 points for the CP. Also on rare occasion, I'll buckle down and push for 900 points for a specific cover. But this takes effort, quick matches, health packs, and HP spent on shields while you wait for characters to heal and health packs to replenish. Once I reach 900 and get the cover reward, I find I've lost about 140+ points in about 10 minutes.

MarkersMake

Chrono_Tata wrote:

The way I see it, this rule of thumb applies even more when you are at lower points. If you are climbing at around 700+ points and the guy you hit when you were at 300-something points just started playing and decided to retaliate, you would be losing quite a bit of points.

Uh, let me stop you right there.

If you are a 3* player like the OP, then you are not ever "climbing" at 700+ points.That is where you peak. And your score at that level has a half-life shorter than a fart in the wind.

Don't get me wrong - I think this is probably great advice for a 4* roster. But when you crest 550 as a 3* player, it is not retaliations that are the problem. It is the rest of the player population suddenly seeing a juicy target with relatively few hit points, that's suddenly worth enough points to hit.

I have a (slightly) better roster than the OP, and I have checked the names of the teams that have subsequently clobbered me on the rare occasion that I have hit 725. Maybe 1 out of 10 is a retaliation - I do not climb on teams with champed 4*s. The retaliations trickle in later, but they don't matter because, as a 3* player who does not dump boatloads of cash on HP, I save my HP for roster slots; shields are a poor return on investment at this stage of the game - pvp is about progression, not placement right now.

Furthermore - my matches are slow (because 3*). Once I hit 500, I cannot waste time looking for *beatable* 40+ point teams. The 29-38 point teams are the rule, with the occasional higher point teams being either unbeatable or too rare for me to find quickly enough (and I skip like it's going out of style).

All that being said. My question was really about the point algorithm. At some point (which I thought was 800), match points become zero-sum. Is that not the case? And if (as a 3* player) I never get close to that point (and I *never* do), then isn't the "don't climb on teams worth less than 40" advice kind of moot for people who are in the same situation as the OP (and me)?


I'm re-reading this now, and I have come across as a bit more hostile than I intended. I'd edit, but posting on a phone is enough of a pain as it is, so I'll just pre-emptively apologize for any offense instead.

Alkyoneus

PVP above 800 is about shield hopping and being in a Line shield check room, for those of us without the mightiest of rosters. Believe me, there are plenty of high-value targets available above 800, but you have to know when to look for them, and be shielded to keep the climbers off your back.

This comes down to 2 things:
1.) being able to find beatable teams that have value above 60
2.) being as quick as possible with 2-3 fights and get behind your shield before others find you and bash your brains in

I have 20 champion 4-star characters and a couple of 375+ 5-star characters and they don't mean a fart to people with other champ 4-5 rosters who can clear my team in less time than it takes me to clear 2 fights. The last PvP event I had to use 6 shields to hop above 1200, and I got obliterated twice during fights.

I'm not trying to discourage, but I felt I needed to clarify that that are indeed valuable targets above 800 points, you just have to have the roster to beat those teams in a timely fashion. Keep hanging out at 575 and below until you're ready to do that.

WelcomeDeath

So...half the advice in this post is to go to 575 and quit. You do understand that THIS is the reason why there arent viable targets above that level for 3* players, right? If nobody in 3* tier pushes above that mark, then every single target above that mark will be unbeatable for the tier. Just the waybthe game works.

Whats funny is people say 2k is still possible in shield sim...which it is. Now, shield sim is the EXACT SAME matchmaking as regular pvp, the only difference being that the break point for points won/points lose being equal is set at 2k instead of 1k. So, why arent people with 3* getting to 1k in regular pvp? Because of advise like this, and because of the participation prize at 575 which has fostered this mentality. The worst thing ever for 3* players making the 4* cover award is the cp at 575. If that had never been introduced, more 3* and 4* players would push for 800/900 and above, and thered be more targets to climb on. If you get a red node and are under 1k, your points lost are LESS THAN what the attacker gained. If more people pushed for 900, more points would build, more would be able to.