Day 143 - will I ever be able to compete in PvP?

Orchedelia

So, yeah...I'm on Day 143...been through the 2*s - champed and farming...I have twelve top-tier 3*s champed....a few 4*s have multiple covers, but 3*s are my focus...

...and I've still only managed to reasonably compete in, maybe, 4-5 PvP matches due to outrageous scaling.

That's 143 days I can only watch from afar this other part of the game. I watch/read the forums and FB groups regularly, but I've never heard anybody say that it takes 8-12 months before they can finally participate in PvP.
Everything I personally get in PvP is Level 240-270 4* and 5* stuff, and far far out of my league. I mean, I sometimes try "just in case"...but get my **** handed to me. (I clean up in the LR seed matches, Tues-Thurs, of course)

I'm obviously a PvE player and enjoy my wins and frustrations there, and it all makes sense to me.
So without being too whiny...is it just my particular scaling or will it all come to me in a few more weeks? months?

Experiences, anyone?
Is this the norm?

Oh yeah, and can RNGesus send me a freakin' Switch!!

https://mpq.gamependium.com/rosters/Orchedelia/

Copps

With a couple of boosted 3s or a good unboosted team like Im40/cap you should hit the 575 point without too much effort. Add kk to that team and with the right timing 2k sim should be reachable.

veny

Day 832 - Nope
Yes, i am serious - i was never able to get past 1000 points and even this was difficult as hell (E: Funny fact - few times i was in TOP 5, once even 1st - without reaching max progress tier ).
With champed 3*s i was meeting maxed 4*s after reaching 800 points. Now, with few maxed 4*s, i am meeting maxed AND powered 4*s (or even very powerful 5*s) after reaching 800 points.

So, THEORETICALLY it is possible to compete with fully maxed 5*s (unless they come with 6*s characters or something similar to champion levels). BUT even with fully champed 5* team you have the disadvantage of a defender, that means dumb AI, limited teamups and the fact than attacker can counter your defensive team.

After much pain while reaching 4*s i learned that best is to get CPs at 575 - it has best effort/reward ratio for me plus mostly its enough to get in top 100.

smkspy

Day 550 something and I just am able to finally legit play pvp to 900ish.

Basically, it's at least a year to where you are able to compete in pvp without feeling like you are pissing in the wind.

terrible game design, yes, but it is what it is.

Orchedelia

OK, I guess that's the deal then. I thought I was just unlucky or something.

As far as hitting 575 or 800 or whatever...I'm just talking about trying to compete in A SINGLE MATCH....like, one 31-point match.
I tried a couple tonight....yep...just pissing in the wind again.....

Straycat

I remember I didn't try pvp for a long time, I assumed it was against an active opponent at first. Then it took me forever before I realized you can skip to find better matches. And just recently I learned about events filling up and resetting to get an easier time for placement.
I can usually skip until it costs 10 and find something doable. You can probably compete with boosted 3* champs against nonboosted 4*

aa25

From someone who started playing PvP when he had only Shulk and Switch champed. First thing is, it depends on your expectation. PvP, to a certain extent, is a competition of roster strength (High level + Depth). Like other said above, you should be able to hit 575 cp with the right team. 650 is probably your ceiling right now for 3* roster. (I could be wrong) Unfortunately, I don't think you should play for placement yet. You probably can, but you will need to spend HP on shield which I don't think it is a good investment comparing to buying roster slots at this stage. Another thing is if you see only teams you can't beat at the beginning, wait a bit and try again later (maybe after a day). And don't forget your 2* when they are boosted. Some can be very effective as well. If your roster is up to date, here are my comments on each champ 3* you have on PvP,

Hulk: Standard defense team component.
Patch: Can help you punch above your paygrade with Hulk bomb
Cmag: Very good choice. A solid character on both defense and offense.
Lcap: Good choice on offense. He is not that good on defense though. (AI has no clue how to place his shield)
3Torch: Okay-ish. You probably want him 5/5/3 on defense though. (AI has no clue how to use his green)
3Thor: Okay-ish. You may want to consider 5/3/5 build and run him with im40 though. (With im40, his yellow is obsolete)
IM40: Very good choice.
KK: Another very good choice. You may want to put her 3/5/5. (Unless you want her in battery mode to fuel 3Thor)
Shulk: Another good defensive character.

GSBW, 3BE, Gamora, Psylocke: They are not PvP type characters.

More wall-of-text
Offense: When you actually play the game and want to score to hit certain rewards.
Defense: When you take a break from the game (float). You can set the defense team by winning the last match with it. (No one know exactly how the PvP defensive change has changed. A few test by myself seems to verify that switching the characters of similar levels work as before)

Keep in mind that a good defensive team is NOT the team that will win you defensive points, but it is a team that motivate other players to skip your team.

Hope this help.

Edit: I could be wrong about 650 being the ceiling for 3* roster.

granne

Don't be afraid to skip. Skip until you find something you'd be comfortable beating if you met it in PvE. There will be some there, it may just take a while to find them.

Oh, and don't be afraid of single-cover five stars. OML with a single yellow is completely toothless - just leave him till last, although having a Stunner, like Cap, helps.

Orchedelia

thanks for the feedback.

Yeah, I keep KK at 355, just had it wrong on my Gamependium roster. 3Hulk/KK/Switch are my go-to for punching above my weight - or the normal 3Hulk/Patch bomb. I'm a big advocate for Hulk's anger and KK's punch - I do more cheering and swearing when I play them.

And I'm a huge believer in 3Torch. A strong, quick , and two "gifts that keep on giving" - &
I've been quite lucky in how my covers have fallen to champ some great 3*s.
(I've been wanting to beef up Switch, Doom and Blade for weeks)


As an aside...I discovered some great fun with PvE this week using 2Mags/Gamora/3Thanos. I never tried that combo before, and took out 4x4 easy nodes without flinching.

Have fun, everybody.

Jarvind

It looks like you have some of the best 3* characters championed, so you should definitely be able to hit the 575 mark, at least.

Getting to 800 will be challenging but probably doable with shields. 900 will be a struggle and you can forget about 1200. I've got 27 4* champions and I don't even bother with 1200 because it would either require insane timing and luck or a boatload of shields.

As someone else said, jump on those 1-cover 5* matches. They're far less dangerous than a maxed 3*.

If that's not satisfactory for you, I'd suggest either sticking to PVE for a while (your scaling means you'll actually have an easier time there than 5* players) or finding a new game. This one's far enough along in its life cycle that a newer player like you will need to either drop lots of cash or be very patient in order to get to a competitive state.

Dormammu

You shouldn't be worried about placement in PVP, your roster just isn't there yet. That's not a slam because your roster looks good for day 143. Chase progression instead and once you hit 575 for the CP feel proud about that, it's a reasonable goal. Don't bang your head against the wall to go further; it's not worth the frustration.

Your roster is ready for placement in PVE and it sounds like you've been doing that. Keep it up, PVE rewards are the path to future PVP successes.

Keep building your 3* roster. You want them all champed. It sounds insane, but you'll get there. Consistent success in PVP is all about roster diversity - you need the buffed characters, and if all your threes are champed you always have the buffed characters. Once your champed threes break into the 200+ level range you'll see yourself competing more easily.

That's when you want to start champing your fours - not before. If you have one or two champed fours without a fully developed 3* roster it will cause MMR to give you opponents out of your weight class. Soft cap your fours to be in range with your highest threes until you're ready to fully move into 4* land. That's tough advice to give, because eventually you'll find covers going to waste if you obtain covers for a cover-maxed 4*. If you are in danger of that happening, it's time to start stockpiling LTs and CPs and hoard them until you're ready to move up.

ZootSax

One more piece of advice: soft-cap your 4*'s until you have multiple, top tier characters ready to champ. It may seem nonsensical, but champing the wrong 4*'s will kill your chances of competing.

I made the mistake of championing my only fully-covered 4*'s even though it was Devil Dinosaur and Nick Fury. Now MMR matches me up against teams of champed & boosted 4*'s or 5* teams up to about Lv420 even if neither of my 4* champs is boosted. Combined arms was the first event that I hit 575 in multiple seasons... It's pretty discouraging and has made me almost exclusively a PVE player for the past 6 months...

Orchedelia

Thanks - I have no desire to move up to 4*s any time soon. It seems the 3* transition happened quickly for me (I softcapped to Level 120 until I could spend 600k all at once) and now I cringe every time I get a 4*...I just don't want to go there for a long while...really just enjoying my 3*s.

Sitting on 27 LTs....no desire to open anything for a long time............

Huntah86

Ive been playing for only about a year and starting with last season I consistently get 900 - 950 per event. Before that I didnt have any useable 4* and still would get 725 - 900. Im able to hit 900+ now only because I have a 200+ IM40 and champed Peggy though. Before having a few boosted 3* was enough for me, Id finish about t50 or t100 only but that was good enough for me. When you can avoid having to use the loaner its a HUGE advantage.

Vhailorx

A couple of thoughts TC:

(1) I don't think you have the strongest 3*s champed. At least not most of them. You do have IM40 and kk, this is great! But you don't have IF, Cyclops, Cage, or Switch (and maybe strange). Collectively, those are the best 3*s for PVP and you only have 2/6. Thanos may also be on the list once people get a better sense of what he can do. With your current roster you should be using cmags/im40, lazycap/im40, or im40/kk most of the time. IM40 (when fixed next week) is a massive advantage on PVP offense and not so squishy as to invite too many extra attacks. He will get you a lot further as a battery than 3*hulk. honestly, 3* hulk has almost no defensive value these days. I love hunting him in my early climbs. especially when he's boosted. Torch is another character that works pretty well in PVE but just isn't great in PVP. Reds hits decently hard for its cost, and is good, but green is a bit too slow for PVP, and black is borderline bad since it drains other ap.

(2) playstyle matters an awful lot in PVP. You can play and win 25 matches in two different PVP events and get wildly different results depending on how you play. In general, you want to climb as fast as possible and all at once. Playing a match here and there will get you absolutely no where above 300 or 400 points unless you have a strong roster. Playing in higher-score slices will make it easier to hit progression rewards, while playing lower activity slices will make it easier to place. Playing at peak times (e.g. 3, 8, or 11 hours before an event ends) will also subject you to more hits. Playing with especially weak defensive teams will also result in more attacks. Providing a comprehensive PVP guide may be a bit much for this thread, but I and others on the forums are happy to offer more detailed advice. Feel free to PM me if you like.

(3) The game was VERY different when I was building my 3* roster out, so it's a bit hard to compare things directly, but I think I was around 6 or 7 months in the game before I reach 1k in PVP for the first time (this was in early 2015, so I was trying to use a shallow 3* roster to climb to 1k in a 4*thorverine meta). But I would not be surprised if PVP success still takes a long time to develop in the current meta. Patience and a reasonable set of PVP goals are the best strategies.

(4) Speaking of reasonable goals, success at PVP without 4*s should probably be defined by the 575 cp reward at the low end and the 725 HP at the high end; that's probably about as well as 3* team can get you (though the current PVP meta didn't exist when I was 3*-only, so take that opinion with some skepticism). The 800 3* is probably out of reach for most 3* players (feel free to make the PVP prog reward make more sense any time demi/d3!).

(5) Overall, it sounds like you are doing really well! You have smartly hoarded your LTs; they won't do much for you now, and soft-capped until you could level lots of 3*s. I hope you have also been saving all your CPs and not spending them on 3* covers. Keep grinding away at PVE and you will have a pvp ready 4* roster by mid 2017 if not faster. Hell, I only just managed to fully cover my first 3* around 120 days. You have a cool dozen champed in just around the same time.

Orchedelia

very good replies, all.

It sounds like the PvP game is just down the road for me. I play regularly and often, but I don't get suicidal if I leave a couple nodes open in PvE because I got busy or sleepy. This Rocket/Groot PvE series has me twiddling my thumbs right now, so I was just wishing I had some matches tonight.
(and just got my 10th IF cover on a token pull tonight...so, he's finally arriving)

On slow nights I usually damn-the-torpedos and go after anything in PvP just to test my less familiar heroes....what have I got to lose, right?

Good advice from all. Thanks.

TLCstormz

The short answer is "no."

Chrono_Tata

Orchedelia wrote:

As far as hitting 575 or 800 or whatever...I'm just talking about trying to compete in A SINGLE MATCH....like, one 31-point match.
I tried a couple tonight....yep...just pissing in the wind again.....

That's a problem for you right there. Never play 31-point matches. The "equilibrium" point (where you are hitting an opponent who has the same score as you) is 38 points. If you are hitting someone for less than 38 points, you are putting yourself on their retaliation queue and basically painting a target on yourself for them to hit you back for more points than you gained from hitting them. As a general rule only play matches that earn you 40 points or more.

As other has mentioned PvP is all about playing smart not playing hard. There are a few tricks you can learn as you go along and there are plenty of resources here on the forum.

Mr_Sinister

Chrono_Tata wrote:

Orchedelia wrote:

As far as hitting 575 or 800 or whatever...I'm just talking about trying to compete in A SINGLE MATCH....like, one 31-point match.
I tried a couple tonight....yep...just pissing in the wind again.....

That's a problem for you right there. Never play 31-point matches. The "equilibrium" point (where you are hitting an opponent who has the same score as you) is 38 points. If you are hitting someone for less than 38 points, you are putting yourself on their retaliation queue and basically painting a target on yourself for them to hit you back for more points than you gained from hitting them. As a general rule only play matches that earn you 40 points or more.

As other has mentioned PvP is all about playing smart not playing hard. There are a few tricks you can learn as you go along and there are plenty of resources here on the forum.

Not that this is his problem, but after 800 points finding anything with 38 or more points is very difficult. At 1k, finding anything double digits is difficult.

Teskal

What I did:
First, get Health Pack full. Try a Taco Token and hope for more health packs. And start fighting.

Search for enemies you want to fight. I do not fight for 10 Points!

I use +1/+2 AP which I buy for 200 Iso. They are really helpfull.

I have only champed 2* available, most others are not really good enough. 3* Human Torch, Thanos, 4* Medusa and 4* Peggy Carter I like to used sometimes. (Especially the 4* have not much covers 1-2 most!)

I got in the new season in the shield simulator till 1000. Sooner or later I try it again and hope to get the Thanos covers.

About the other PVP's I get normally to the 400 range, because I want the 50hp.

I use normally 2* Magneto, 2* Storm, 2* Black Widow or 2* Thor, 2* Black Widow, 2* Bullseye.

I'm happy with every rank I reach, but I got once rank 5 (at the end of the event).

revskip

Orchedelia wrote:

Thanks - I have no desire to move up to 4*s any time soon. It seems the 3* transition happened quickly for me (I softcapped to Level 120 until I could spend 600k all at once) and now I cringe every time I get a 4*...I just don't want to go there for a long while...really just enjoying my 3*s.

Sitting on 27 LTs....no desire to open anything for a long time............

If you can stay patient it really will pay off big dividends later. I just hit the one year mark a couple of days ago and by hoarding all my tokens and nearly all of my CP until I finished champing all the 3*s I was in a great position to roster and build the 4* tier much more evenly. You'll end up with a ton of 4* covers all at once and a few should even be close to cover maxed so you'll know what PVE events to try to place high in to get them cover maxed.

The other bonus is that your scaling will stay very manageable. Having a deeper roster helps a ton with scaling since you'll always have a few boosted characters to choose from.