Great job with lose 2 or less creaturss

AettThorn

orgazmo wrote:

AettThorn wrote:

hawkyh1 wrote:

for those that have the deck, you could try kiora to set up
sphinx tutalege to try and reduce your opponents ability to
cast cards after you cast your werewolf. could work if your
opponent doesn't cast dubious challenge.

HH

And how exactly would one use Kiora on a red node?

Because it's red/green.

Yup...that'll teach me to post before the caffeine kicks in.

madwren

Mainloop25 wrote:

I always use Hexproof creatures for those objectives. It ain't foolproof, but it gives me a better shot against black decks, for example.

The problem is that Morphis was playing in EC, where the objective is to summon two, and only two werewolves, which means hexproof isn't an option.

Mainloop25

madwren wrote:

Mainloop25 wrote:

I always use Hexproof creatures for those objectives. It ain't foolproof, but it gives me a better shot against black decks, for example.

The problem is that Morphis was playing in EC, where the objective is to summon two, and only two werewolves, which means hexproof isn't an option.

Oh I know, I had the same dilemna going into this event. I had to lose a point by casting Sphinx of the Final Word during a match with a black deck, but at least it meant that I could win the game without losing due to potential heavy creature removal. Part of the game in pvp is predicting what might happen based on the match-up and tooling your deck accordingly.

babar3355

Steeme wrote:

Mainloop25 wrote:

But you're right, that objective is not well designed, unless the design was meant to be severely limited in the deck style you want to play with if you want to get all the points. In which case, it wasn't a well designed objective after all, was it?

Even the "kill Tyrant with 10 or less HP remaining," which was considered the most frustrating objective to hit in that event, had many different ways to accomplish it.

I don't like the "Win the match with 10 or less HP remaining" objectives because that involves some type of stalling or throttling of the match. It does require skill and luck to pull it off, but I don't like the luck part, and you don't find out whether or not you're going to get unlucky until it's too late.

I'd much rather have deck restrictions as part of the objectives.

Example:
Objective 1. Win the match
Objective 2. Win the match and summon 2 werewolves
Objective 3. Win the match with no Supports in your deck

Or something to that effect. The restriction can be No supports, No spells, No creatures, No mythics, etc. That way you need to focus on building a deck that will win and fulfill the restriction in order to maximize points.

Other ideas:
Summon no tokens (AI casting frog/moon on you doesn't count)
Cast no cards that directly target an opponent's creature
Cast no cards that directly target your creatures

Or cast only cards from the Kaladesh block? Cast cards of only a single color?

I do like the take less than x damage. I mean it totally sucks to get screwed with a Olivia, bacon, emrakul deploy... but, it does force you to adjust your strategy to a very defensive posture.

madwren

Mainloop25 wrote:

madwren wrote:

Mainloop25 wrote:

I always use Hexproof creatures for those objectives. It ain't foolproof, but it gives me a better shot against black decks, for example.

The problem is that Morphis was playing in EC, where the objective is to summon two, and only two werewolves, which means hexproof isn't an option.

Oh I know, I had the same dilemna going into this event. I had to lose a point by casting Sphinx of the Final Word during a match with a black deck, but at least it meant that I could win the game without losing due to potential heavy creature removal. Part of the game in pvp is predicting what might happen based on the match-up and tooling your deck accordingly.

Sure, I get that, but if the solution to ensuring you beat an objective is to violate that objective, then it's a poor objective.

Mainloop25

Exactly my point!!

wereotter

madwren wrote:

Mainloop25 wrote:

madwren wrote:

Mainloop25 wrote:

I always use Hexproof creatures for those objectives. It ain't foolproof, but it gives me a better shot against black decks, for example.

The problem is that Morphis was playing in EC, where the objective is to summon two, and only two werewolves, which means hexproof isn't an option.

Oh I know, I had the same dilemna going into this event. I had to lose a point by casting Sphinx of the Final Word during a match with a black deck, but at least it meant that I could win the game without losing due to potential heavy creature removal. Part of the game in pvp is predicting what might happen based on the match-up and tooling your deck accordingly.

Sure, I get that, but if the solution to ensuring you beat an objective is to violate that objective, then it's a poor objective.

Unless of course the objectives are intentionally contradictory. I personally like the ones that are "kill 2 or less creatures" and "kill 6 or more creatures"

Means you can try for one and if your plan fails, there's a backup for fewer bonus points.

Mainloop25

Those are the ones that make the most sense to me. There are a lot of those in story mode.

Brigby

Hey Everyone. I'm sorry to hear that the secondary objectives seem to be incredibly difficult. I've passed along this information to the developers to see what their thoughts are.

nexus13

It's not just difficulty but that they are somewhat arbitrary and lots of things count against them that shouldn't (ie stolen creatures returning counting as an additional summon). What the community wants on these is if the objective says summon 2 or less creatures then only you summoning creatures should count against that, and opponents who kill their own creatures or creatures that just die because they have a single turn lifetime shouldn't count as killing an opponent's creature. This is not just whining its too hard, its that the objectives don't really match what their stated goals are. Some of them are difficult and random depending on your matchup but some of them just don't work in a logical way.

SeditiousCanary

I dislike that the "X supports, or less" ones count the Fabricate triggers, but the Servos almost never count towards your total number of supports.

Mainloop25

Brigby wrote:

Hey Everyone. I'm sorry to hear that the secondary objectives seem to be incredibly difficult. I've passed along this information to the developers to see what their thoughts are.

It's not so much that they are incredibly difficult, because they aren't, for the most part. It must seems like they were thrown together without a lot of consideration for the nodes that they were put into.

Red = Speed round. OK that one makes sense. Keep it. Green, however, is a color that typically relies on generating lots of mana to cast, grow and reinforce your creatures. It would actually make more sense to have an objective like "cast 8 or more creatures" for the extra point and see how that plays out. You can also still reasonably hope to achieve your goal even if you run against a deck that has imprisoned in the moon. A 3-mana card that ruins your chances at getting a perfect score in one casting.

Personally, I miss having one event where it is just "my best deck vs. your best deck." I don't see the harm in running a 24-hour event like that, especially since we have a new event every day now.

I do appreciate having so many opportunities to play in events right now, so feel free to pass the devs that positive feedback as well

THEMAGICkMAN

Mainloop25 wrote:

Personally, I miss having one event where it is just "my best deck vs. your best deck." I don't see the harm in running a 24-hour event like that, especially since we have a new event every day now.

I do appreciate having so many opportunities to play in events right now, so feel free to pass the devs that positive feedback as well

I would love the original NoP back as well, but not until the tiebreakers are solved.

And yeah alot if events is a great thing, but only so long as the people with the time to play all of them don't get super unfair advantage against the people with a bit less time

madwren

Brigby wrote:

Hey Everyone. I'm sorry to hear that the secondary objectives seem to be incredibly difficult. I've passed along this information to the developers to see what their thoughts are.

It isn't so much that they're difficult as that they're very easy to lose by circumstances outside of your control. As the original post discussed, he had no chance. The AI pulled out a creature and killed it three times. That's ridiculous because there was no way for the player to avoid it.

We don't mind difficult objectives. We don't mind challenges.

What we mind, as skilled players, are when earning prizes are based more on luck than skill. Take, for example, some of the stories at https://d3go.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=57107.

While we recognize that there's a definite "tinykitty happens" category, and that we will always be subject to certain vagaries of randomness, it's a shame when a person jumps through the hoops only to get screwed by a game engine that insists that the AI turning your creature into a moon token counts as a "summon", or that it's logical to kill a single creature three times in succession, or that gaining life via lifelink means you somehow miss out on the "20 life or less" because it doesn't know how to count properly.

Ohboy

Nop isn't even the worst offender of this.

Frog and imprison mechanics have been known for a while now, and Dubious Challenge has been out for weeks. One can make the argument that a good player should have known to account for these factors during deck building, and it's not impossible to completely mitigate the problem by going creatureless.

In soi however, that's impossible because a node both requires you to cast 2 creatures and not cast more than 2. This leaves zero room to build around the troll decks even if you know it's coming.

Similarly, facing a Chandra in the blue node in nop is basically a build order loss where you can't change your build order. It's impact is only mitigated by the fact that Chandra doesn't appear very often.

r190063

I used the basic Giedon to complete this. No creature cards, only use angel token, spawned from Sigil of the Empty Throne, to attack.

My deck:
Scour from Extistance
Fumigate
Smite the Monstrous
Humble the Brute
Starfield of Nyx
Hixus, Prison Warden
Sigil of the Empty Throne
Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
Canopy Vista
Tamiyo's Journal

Btw, I hate this bug too.

hawkyh1

r190063 wrote:

I used the basic Giedon to complete this. No creature cards, only use angel token, spawned from Sigil of the Empty Throne, to attack.

My deck:
Scour from Extistance
Fumigate
Smite the Monstrous
Humble the Brute
Starfield of Nyx
Hixus, Prison Warden
Sigil of the Empty Throne
Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
Canopy Vista
Tamiyo's Journal

Btw, I hate this bug too.

I wonder what happens if your opponent plays dubious challenge?
don't a destroyed angel token count as a loss creature?

HH

wereotter

orgazmo wrote:

Thésée wrote:

Yes yes of course, the best way to avoid this kind of things is to win the game really fast. But when you don't have Bandit or Ulrich like OP and I you have to play Sage, stall, and pray

That is my problem with this node. I think it's the only one I lost on. Its made for players with Ulrich and Bandit. For those that have mediocre werewolves, the node becomes a lot more luck than I would like, especially when paired with Koth or Kiora.

It's wolves or werewolves. So there are some decent wolves a red deck could run to hit the objective if you don't have the werewolves. Assembled Alphas is a solid card and Wolf of Devil's Breach is great. For green, Spirit of the Hunt was an event reward that would count, and would pair well with a few green werewolves.

orgazmo

wereotter wrote:

orgazmo wrote:

Thésée wrote:

Yes yes of course, the best way to avoid this kind of things is to win the game really fast. But when you don't have Bandit or Ulrich like OP and I you have to play Sage, stall, and pray

That is my problem with this node. I think it's the only one I lost on. Its made for players with Ulrich and Bandit. For those that have mediocre werewolves, the node becomes a lot more luck than I would like, especially when paired with Koth or Kiora.

It's wolves or werewolves. So there are some decent wolves a red deck could run to hit the objective if you don't have the werewolves. Assembled Alphas is a solid card and Wolf of Devil's Breach is great. For green, Spirit of the Hunt was an event reward that would count, and would pair well with a few green werewolves.

I don't have any of the cards you listed. Like I said, I have no good werewolves or wolves.

r190063

hawkyh1 wrote:

r190063 wrote:

I used the basic Giedon to complete this. No creature cards, only use angel token, spawned from Sigil of the Empty Throne, to attack.

My deck:
Scour from Extistance
Fumigate
Smite the Monstrous
Humble the Brute
Starfield of Nyx
Hixus, Prison Warden
Sigil of the Empty Throne
Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
Canopy Vista
Tamiyo's Journal

Btw, I hate this bug too.

I wonder what happens if your opponent plays dubious challenge?
don't a destroyed angel token count as a loss creature?

HH

To Q1: I guess I am not able to put a creature into battlefield, but my opponent do . Although The token itself is categorized as creature, the source of spawning it is a support card, not a creature card.