5 Meta: Has 5 BBSM lost his status as top tier 5?

Polares

Vhailorx said:

Polares said:

Yeah this is an indirect nerf to Spidey too obviously. None of them are top 5, or even top tier anymore.

PS: I doubt PH will be nerfed. Next target might be Thanos (even though he used most of the time just in PvP), but I don't think PH is in danger.

Thanos seems to be the consensus best 5* now, but his self-damage mechanics means that i dont think he will be the next nerf unless some new character is introduced that turns thanos into a pre-nerf sentry redux that can win any pvp match in 30 seconds.  If that ever happens thanos will be nerfed into oblivion to protect the sales of whatever new character makes the combo happen.

I think BB is the more likely next nerf target.  He is older than thanos, and has an incredibly powerful offensive passive, with the only downside being that his yellow is kinda tinykitty.  

Thing is, as good as Thanos is, I don't think he is the best, and he is not that used in PvE (maybe for being faster with the easy nodes, but all 5s are fast in the easy nodes so not a big deal :P). Also, every single time you hit someone with Court Death you suffer damage. I love to play GG+Thanos in PvP because it is a very fun duo, but I need to use a ton of health packs.

Bolt is the best for me, both in PvE and PvP. But most of the time you use his black and his non buffed form of green so he is not broken or anything like that. So he doesn't deserve a nerf either.

I expect next 5s to be really good, specially 5 Thor in November (Hawkeye looks very very good, and together with GG is going to be a great team, but probably not top3). 

Jarvind

Polares said:

Vhailorx said:

Polares said:

Yeah this is an indirect nerf to Spidey too obviously. None of them are top 5, or even top tier anymore.

PS: I doubt PH will be nerfed. Next target might be Thanos (even though he used most of the time just in PvP), but I don't think PH is in danger.

Thanos seems to be the consensus best 5* now, but his self-damage mechanics means that i dont think he will be the next nerf unless some new character is introduced that turns thanos into a pre-nerf sentry redux that can win any pvp match in 30 seconds.  If that ever happens thanos will be nerfed into oblivion to protect the sales of whatever new character makes the combo happen.

I think BB is the more likely next nerf target.  He is older than thanos, and has an incredibly powerful offensive passive, with the only downside being that his yellow is kinda tinykitty.  

Thing is, as good as Thanos is, I don't think he is the best, and he is not that used in PvE (maybe for being faster with the easy nodes, but all 5s are fast in the easy nodes so not a big deal :P). Also, every single time you hit someone with Court Death you suffer damage. I love to play GG+Thanos in PvP because it is a very fun duo, but I need to use a ton of health packs.

Bolt is the best for me, both in PvE and PvP. But most of the time you use his black and his non buffed form of green so he is not broken or anything like that. So he doesn't deserve a nerf either.

I expect next 5s to be really good, specially 5 Thor in November (Hawkeye looks very very good, and together with GG is going to be a great team, but probably not top3). 

Yeah, I have to agree that Thanos's friendly damage makes him safe from the nerf bat unless some truly insane synergy reveals itself later on. Black Bolt seems like the next likely target. At 5 black he deals enough passive damage nearly every turn to take down a 4* team without ever firing a power. If that's not bonkers I don't know what is.

Polares

Jarvind said:

Polares said:

Vhailorx said:

Polares said:

Yeah this is an indirect nerf to Spidey too obviously. None of them are top 5, or even top tier anymore.

PS: I doubt PH will be nerfed. Next target might be Thanos (even though he used most of the time just in PvP), but I don't think PH is in danger.

Thanos seems to be the consensus best 5* now, but his self-damage mechanics means that i dont think he will be the next nerf unless some new character is introduced that turns thanos into a pre-nerf sentry redux that can win any pvp match in 30 seconds.  If that ever happens thanos will be nerfed into oblivion to protect the sales of whatever new character makes the combo happen.

I think BB is the more likely next nerf target.  He is older than thanos, and has an incredibly powerful offensive passive, with the only downside being that his yellow is kinda tinykitty.  

Thing is, as good as Thanos is, I don't think he is the best, and he is not that used in PvE (maybe for being faster with the easy nodes, but all 5s are fast in the easy nodes so not a big deal :P). Also, every single time you hit someone with Court Death you suffer damage. I love to play GG+Thanos in PvP because it is a very fun duo, but I need to use a ton of health packs.

Bolt is the best for me, both in PvE and PvP. But most of the time you use his black and his non buffed form of green so he is not broken or anything like that. So he doesn't deserve a nerf either.

I expect next 5s to be really good, specially 5 Thor in November (Hawkeye looks very very good, and together with GG is going to be a great team, but probably not top3). 

Yeah, I have to agree that Thanos's friendly damage makes him safe from the nerf bat unless some truly insane synergy reveals itself later on. Black Bolt seems like the next likely target. At 5 black he deals enough passive damage nearly every turn to take down a 4* team without ever firing a power. If that's not bonkers I don't know what is.

Well, Bolts black is really good, but the damage is not that different from Blade's red or Medusa's red. In fact, Blade's red has the potential to do even more damage than Bolt's red, and Medusa's one has no drawback and can span attack tiles. Also, Bolt's black produces charged tiles that can be used by your enemy.So all in all is a fantastic ability, but I don't think it is OP.

No char deserves a nerf in 5 land, there are some that are bit below (just a bit, Banner maybe a bit more) of the power curve, but chars like Bolt, Thanos, Strange, Goblin, IM, Hawkeye and PH are really good, it is really hard to know which is best, some are slightly faster, but in no way they are all around better than the others.

5 land is without a doubt the more balanced tier in this game!

PS: It was great in this past PvE to use Bolt with buffed Medusa doing 8k or a bit more every turn Royal Inhumans power!

Jarvind

Polares said:

Jarvind said:

Polares said:

Vhailorx said:

Polares said:

Yeah this is an indirect nerf to Spidey too obviously. None of them are top 5, or even top tier anymore.

PS: I doubt PH will be nerfed. Next target might be Thanos (even though he used most of the time just in PvP), but I don't think PH is in danger.

Thanos seems to be the consensus best 5* now, but his self-damage mechanics means that i dont think he will be the next nerf unless some new character is introduced that turns thanos into a pre-nerf sentry redux that can win any pvp match in 30 seconds.  If that ever happens thanos will be nerfed into oblivion to protect the sales of whatever new character makes the combo happen.

I think BB is the more likely next nerf target.  He is older than thanos, and has an incredibly powerful offensive passive, with the only downside being that his yellow is kinda tinykitty.  

Thing is, as good as Thanos is, I don't think he is the best, and he is not that used in PvE (maybe for being faster with the easy nodes, but all 5s are fast in the easy nodes so not a big deal :P). Also, every single time you hit someone with Court Death you suffer damage. I love to play GG+Thanos in PvP because it is a very fun duo, but I need to use a ton of health packs.

Bolt is the best for me, both in PvE and PvP. But most of the time you use his black and his non buffed form of green so he is not broken or anything like that. So he doesn't deserve a nerf either.

I expect next 5s to be really good, specially 5 Thor in November (Hawkeye looks very very good, and together with GG is going to be a great team, but probably not top3). 

Yeah, I have to agree that Thanos's friendly damage makes him safe from the nerf bat unless some truly insane synergy reveals itself later on. Black Bolt seems like the next likely target. At 5 black he deals enough passive damage nearly every turn to take down a 4* team without ever firing a power. If that's not bonkers I don't know what is.

Well, Bolts black is really good, but the damage is not that different from Blade's red or Medusa's red. In fact, Blade's red has the potential to do even more damage than Bolt's red, and Medusa's one has no drawback and can span attack tiles. Also, Bolt's black produces charged tiles that can be used by your enemy.So all in all is a fantastic ability, but I don't think it is OP.

No char deserves a nerf in 5 land, there are some that are bit below (just a bit, Banner maybe a bit more) of the power curve, but chars like Bolt, Thanos, Strange, Goblin, IM, Hawkeye and PH are really good, it is really hard to know which is best, some are slightly faster, but in no way they are all around better than the others.

5 land is without a doubt the more balanced tier in this game!

PS: It was great in this past PvE to use Bolt with buffed Medusa doing 8k or a bit more every turn Royal Inhumans power!

A fully covered and leveled Bolt does just north of 5k per turn, most likely starting on turn 3. Medusa doesn't do anywhere near that much, even when boosted - you'd have to destroy her countdown numerous times and keep all the tiles protected. Blade can do more than that, but only when boosted or with a LOT of strikes out, and you have to collect enough red first, which isn't always doable. Yes, the charged tiles can backfire, but he only needs 4 and passively creates them himself.

I'm not sure where he falls against other 5* characters, but against anything below that tier he is absolutely nuts. I'd say he basically fires Gamora's red power passively every turn, except that Bolt actually does more than that.

Polares

Jarvind said:

Polares said:

Jarvind said:

Polares said:

Vhailorx said:

Polares said:

Yeah this is an indirect nerf to Spidey too obviously. None of them are top 5, or even top tier anymore.

PS: I doubt PH will be nerfed. Next target might be Thanos (even though he used most of the time just in PvP), but I don't think PH is in danger.

Thanos seems to be the consensus best 5* now, but his self-damage mechanics means that i dont think he will be the next nerf unless some new character is introduced that turns thanos into a pre-nerf sentry redux that can win any pvp match in 30 seconds.  If that ever happens thanos will be nerfed into oblivion to protect the sales of whatever new character makes the combo happen.

I think BB is the more likely next nerf target.  He is older than thanos, and has an incredibly powerful offensive passive, with the only downside being that his yellow is kinda tinykitty.  

Thing is, as good as Thanos is, I don't think he is the best, and he is not that used in PvE (maybe for being faster with the easy nodes, but all 5s are fast in the easy nodes so not a big deal :P). Also, every single time you hit someone with Court Death you suffer damage. I love to play GG+Thanos in PvP because it is a very fun duo, but I need to use a ton of health packs.

Bolt is the best for me, both in PvE and PvP. But most of the time you use his black and his non buffed form of green so he is not broken or anything like that. So he doesn't deserve a nerf either.

I expect next 5s to be really good, specially 5 Thor in November (Hawkeye looks very very good, and together with GG is going to be a great team, but probably not top3). 

Yeah, I have to agree that Thanos's friendly damage makes him safe from the nerf bat unless some truly insane synergy reveals itself later on. Black Bolt seems like the next likely target. At 5 black he deals enough passive damage nearly every turn to take down a 4* team without ever firing a power. If that's not bonkers I don't know what is.

Well, Bolts black is really good, but the damage is not that different from Blade's red or Medusa's red. In fact, Blade's red has the potential to do even more damage than Bolt's red, and Medusa's one has no drawback and can span attack tiles. Also, Bolt's black produces charged tiles that can be used by your enemy.So all in all is a fantastic ability, but I don't think it is OP.

No char deserves a nerf in 5 land, there are some that are bit below (just a bit, Banner maybe a bit more) of the power curve, but chars like Bolt, Thanos, Strange, Goblin, IM, Hawkeye and PH are really good, it is really hard to know which is best, some are slightly faster, but in no way they are all around better than the others.

5 land is without a doubt the more balanced tier in this game!

PS: It was great in this past PvE to use Bolt with buffed Medusa doing 8k or a bit more every turn Royal Inhumans power!

A fully covered and leveled Bolt does just north of 5k per turn, most likely starting on turn 3. Medusa doesn't do anywhere near that much, even when boosted - you'd have to destroy her countdown numerous times and keep all the tiles protected. Blade can do more than that, but only when boosted or with a LOT of strikes out, and you have to collect enough red first, which isn't always doable. Yes, the charged tiles can backfire, but he only needs 4 and passively creates them himself.

I'm not sure where he falls against other 5* characters, but against anything below that tier he is absolutely nuts. I'd say he basically fires Gamora's red power passively every turn, except that Bolt actually does more than that.

You should compare them at the same level (or at 550 like in BoP), a Bolt compared with a 350 level Medusa does more damage obviously, but against a 450 level Medusa? or against a 450 level Blade? (And you can have 4s at that level, even though probably not those two because they are very recent).

Medusa at 450 does around 3.5k damage every turn and if the countdown is matched adds two 1,2-1.5k attack tiles. Blade's red at 450 does close to 12k !!! So when you get Medusa or Blade to 340 level and they are also buffed they have quite comparable abilities to Bolt's black, well we can say that they are even better than Bolt's black.

OneLastGambit

Polares said:

Jarvind said:

Polares said:

Jarvind said:

Polares said:

Vhailorx said:

Polares said:

Yeah this is an indirect nerf to Spidey too obviously. None of them are top 5, or even top tier anymore.

PS: I doubt PH will be nerfed. Next target might be Thanos (even though he used most of the time just in PvP), but I don't think PH is in danger.

Thanos seems to be the consensus best 5* now, but his self-damage mechanics means that i dont think he will be the next nerf unless some new character is introduced that turns thanos into a pre-nerf sentry redux that can win any pvp match in 30 seconds.  If that ever happens thanos will be nerfed into oblivion to protect the sales of whatever new character makes the combo happen.

I think BB is the more likely next nerf target.  He is older than thanos, and has an incredibly powerful offensive passive, with the only downside being that his yellow is kinda tinykitty.  

Thing is, as good as Thanos is, I don't think he is the best, and he is not that used in PvE (maybe for being faster with the easy nodes, but all 5s are fast in the easy nodes so not a big deal :P). Also, every single time you hit someone with Court Death you suffer damage. I love to play GG+Thanos in PvP because it is a very fun duo, but I need to use a ton of health packs.

Bolt is the best for me, both in PvE and PvP. But most of the time you use his black and his non buffed form of green so he is not broken or anything like that. So he doesn't deserve a nerf either.

I expect next 5s to be really good, specially 5 Thor in November (Hawkeye looks very very good, and together with GG is going to be a great team, but probably not top3). 

Yeah, I have to agree that Thanos's friendly damage makes him safe from the nerf bat unless some truly insane synergy reveals itself later on. Black Bolt seems like the next likely target. At 5 black he deals enough passive damage nearly every turn to take down a 4* team without ever firing a power. If that's not bonkers I don't know what is.

Well, Bolts black is really good, but the damage is not that different from Blade's red or Medusa's red. In fact, Blade's red has the potential to do even more damage than Bolt's red, and Medusa's one has no drawback and can span attack tiles. Also, Bolt's black produces charged tiles that can be used by your enemy.So all in all is a fantastic ability, but I don't think it is OP.

No char deserves a nerf in 5 land, there are some that are bit below (just a bit, Banner maybe a bit more) of the power curve, but chars like Bolt, Thanos, Strange, Goblin, IM, Hawkeye and PH are really good, it is really hard to know which is best, some are slightly faster, but in no way they are all around better than the others.

5 land is without a doubt the more balanced tier in this game!

PS: It was great in this past PvE to use Bolt with buffed Medusa doing 8k or a bit more every turn Royal Inhumans power!

A fully covered and leveled Bolt does just north of 5k per turn, most likely starting on turn 3. Medusa doesn't do anywhere near that much, even when boosted - you'd have to destroy her countdown numerous times and keep all the tiles protected. Blade can do more than that, but only when boosted or with a LOT of strikes out, and you have to collect enough red first, which isn't always doable. Yes, the charged tiles can backfire, but he only needs 4 and passively creates them himself.

I'm not sure where he falls against other 5* characters, but against anything below that tier he is absolutely nuts. I'd say he basically fires Gamora's red power passively every turn, except that Bolt actually does more than that.

You should compare them at the same level (or at 550 like in BoP), a Bolt compared with a 350 level Medusa does more damage obviously, but against a 450 level Medusa? or against a 450 level Blade? (And you can have 4s at that level, even though probably not those two because they are very recent).

Medusa at 450 does around 3.5k damage every turn and if the countdown is matched adds two 1,2-1.5k attack tiles. Blade's red at 450 does close to 12k !!! So when you get Medusa or Blade to 340 level and they are also buffed they have quite comparable abilities to Bolt's black, well we can say that they are even better than Bolt's black.

Valid point. However its not really fair to use that comparison when discussing potential nerfs as the nerf would be decided on everyday usage not high end max champ usage. Still good point though

Jarvind

Polares said:

Jarvind said:

Well, Bolts black is really good, but the damage is not that different from Blade's red or Medusa's red. In fact, Blade's red has the potential to do even more damage than Bolt's red, and Medusa's one has no drawback and can span attack tiles. Also, Bolt's black produces charged tiles that can be used by your enemy.So all in all is a fantastic ability, but I don't think it is OP.

No char deserves a nerf in 5 land, there are some that are bit below (just a bit, Banner maybe a bit more) of the power curve, but chars like Bolt, Thanos, Strange, Goblin, IM, Hawkeye and PH are really good, it is really hard to know which is best, some are slightly faster, but in no way they are all around better than the others.

5 land is without a doubt the more balanced tier in this game!

PS: It was great in this past PvE to use Bolt with buffed Medusa doing 8k or a bit more every turn Royal Inhumans power!

A fully covered and leveled Bolt does just north of 5k per turn, most likely starting on turn 3. Medusa doesn't do anywhere near that much, even when boosted - you'd have to destroy her countdown numerous times and keep all the tiles protected. Blade can do more than that, but only when boosted or with a LOT of strikes out, and you have to collect enough red first, which isn't always doable. Yes, the charged tiles can backfire, but he only needs 4 and passively creates them himself.

I'm not sure where he falls against other 5* characters, but against anything below that tier he is absolutely nuts. I'd say he basically fires Gamora's red power passively every turn, except that Bolt actually does more than that.

You should compare them at the same level (or at 550 like in BoP), a Bolt compared with a 350 level Medusa does more damage obviously, but against a 450 level Medusa? or against a 450 level Blade? (And you can have 4s at that level, even though probably not those two because they are very recent).

Medusa at 450 does around 3.5k damage every turn and if the countdown is matched adds two 1,2-1.5k attack tiles. Blade's red at 450 does close to 12k !!! So when you get Medusa or Blade to 340 level and they are also buffed they have quite comparable abilities to Bolt's black, well we can say that they are even better than Bolt's black.

How exactly is anyone but the whaliest of whales supposed to get a 450 Medusa or Blade? I'm not sure what your roster looks like but it seems like you must be a pretty heavy spender with very little idea of how the other half lives.

This is like saying "Well yes, a Ferrari is faster than a Volkswagen, but if I strapped a jet engine to a Beetle it could go faster, so they're basically the same."

Polares

Well, now with Bonus Heroes is not that hard

This is not a question of if you have it now or in two years, what I wanted to show is that the ability is not broken at all, other 4s have abilities comparable or even better at the same level, and 4s can 'normally' get to that level, a lot of people has 4s in the 320+ range, it is not a matter of strapping a jet engine into a Beetle :P

PS: I think the max level for 4s once buffed is 478 or something like that, so 450 is not even max champ level.
PS: And no, I don't have any 4 at that level, but my Cyclops just got to 340 !!!!!

Dayv

Vhailorx said:

Reduced reliance on strikes in the 5* meta does make spidey weaker. But things always change along those lines. Thor and bp were powerful 3*s, then we got kk, cyc, and if.

Additionally, spidey could move back up the rankings if a good blue/green battery ever showed up in 5* land. He still has some of the best stuns in the 5* tier and would be a decent stunlock character if supercharged.

Well, a green battery was just introduced to the tier with 5* Star-Lord, but he also has his own use for green...  Still, other than conflicting on green, the two would pair well.

Also, any new strike tile creator in the 5* tier could increase Spidey's demand again.  And lemme tell you how much I love him against Kaecilius!

Even without a green battery Spidey is still very useful if you choose to use his blue for 1-turn opportunity stuns or when paired with anybody that uses a color other than green or blue to stun, or has a passive stun effect.

For a full 5-star team, Spidey, Widow, and Panther have some fun interaction - if someone hits BP too hard (and he has the highest match damage of this generally heavy-hitting trio), he resists the damage and stuns himself, triggering Black Widow to stun a random enemy, turning Spidey invisible and setting him up for cheap, big hits on blue.  On top of that you have nearly a full rainbow of active skills, lacking only an outlet for yellow.  You can also run a variant of this with IM40 (3* IM) and 5* Widow, where IM's recharge provides a bunch of red and blue AP (and a bit of green and purple, too) and triggers the BW/Spidey interaction to set the two 5* up to clean house.

So I'd agree that Spider-Man is no longer among the truly top tier of 5*, but he still brings things to the table that nobody else does and there are some interesting pairings that are worth trying out if you have the right roster.

SangFroid

Yes, no, and maybe...

Yes because his usefulness is drastically reduced vs Thanos and BB who are the new top two 5*s that are really prominent now.

No because he is actually even more important when you run him with OML vs OML/PHX teams.  With the healing nerf OML is way more fragile and BSSM purple is even more important to keep him healthy and OML/PHX are still a popular team.

Maybe..he is one new OP 5* strike generator away from being right back at the top as a counter