5 Meta: Has 5 BBSM lost his status as top tier 5?

Polares

I was thinking about the meta in 5 land and how the movement from people to lastest LT because of the pollution in classic has shifted it completely. The first big team in 5 land was PH+OML, both big strike tile creators, this is one of the reasons that made Spidey so useful in 5 land, and the clear evolution to fight those teams. But now the meta has evolved in a different way than what we expected. Instead of Spidey+PH or Spidey+IM46, the most common teams are now BBolt+OML/PH/BW and soon Thanos+X (I am already seeing a ton of Thanos out there).

I myself use BBolt+PH, and when I see a team with a 5 Spidey I think this an easy one to win. Thanos can also easily kill Spidey as all his moves are AoE. There is still plenty of OML+PH teams, but those teams are slowly disappearing.

I used to be quite annoyed that RNG didn't want me to cover Spidey (is one of my less covered 5s), but it looks like, he won't be as useful as we all thought he would be. I also moved to lastest as most of us, and the results have been great for me. Has these change robbed Spidey of being a top tier 5? Has Spidey lost his edge? Has classic pollution stolen 5 Spidey chances of being king of the 5 Meta? Will he be relegated just to fight muscle goons?


PS: Spidey case is more evident, but I think this also affects IM46 a bit. He is still really great when the featured char is team-IM but I don't think anybody will use him otherwise.

Quebbster

I hope not, I just got my eleventh cover for him and was hoping to max him soon. He and Silver Surfer are both at eleven covers, after that it's a long drop down to Captain America at only half a dozen covers.
But yes, I don't Think neutralizing strike tiles is as important as it used to be. Does that make a 5/5/3 build more viable for SPiderman? I don't know how people typically build him...

Jarvind

I mean, I'm not in 5* territory yet, but I think he was mainly boss because errrrrrrbody in that tier was using OML and Phoenix, who both generate loads of strikes. It only makes sense that Black Suit would become less valuable as other 5*s become more commonplace. I feel like Phoenix still rates highly even among current 5*s though, so I would guess he's still at least moderately useful.

There's also the possibility that more strike-heavy 5*s will come around.

Vhailorx

Reduced reliance on strikes in the 5* meta does make spidey weaker. But things always change along those lines. Thor and bp were powerful 3*s, then we got kk, cyc, and if.

Additionally, spidey could move back up the rankings if a good blue/green battery ever showed up in 5* land. He still has some of the best stuns in the 5* tier and would be a decent stunlock character if supercharged.

Polares

One of Spidey problems is that Strange share so many colors with him. If Strange's blue was some other color, different from blue and green, together they would be a very nasty stun capable team. Also, there are more AoE chars in 5 land, that can hurt Spidey even when he is invisible.


But the biggest reason that motivated this post, is that, because of classic dilution, Spidey 'has been robbed' of his prime time (at least for most of us, mega whales did have a lot of time to use him). Meta has jumped him (and as I also mentioned, IM46).

Spidey is an old 5, but most of us don't have him fully covered (and we will never cover him if things dont change), I have covered BBolt, Strange and BW before him, and I am 100% sure I will also cover Thanos before these older chars.

TxMoose

until OML and phx cease to be the most commonly used 5s out there, he will remain top tier/top half in my opinion. and I think it will stay that way for a long time. eventually he'll drop but I still think its a ways off. based on my pvp qs anyway.

Orion

Yes, people that have all of the 5*s are moving away from OML/PHX. But the vast majority of 5* users are still using 1 of those 2. So until that changes, BSSM is still an effective counter. Heck, my Spidey only has 11 covers, but I still use him way more than my champed Surfer. Is he still top 5? Probably not. Am I still going to keep using him? Heck yeah.

Polares

Orion wrote:

Yes, people that have all of the 5*s are moving away from OML/PHX. But the vast majority of 5* users are still using 1 of those 2. So until that changes, BSSM is still an effective counter. Heck, my Spidey only has 11 covers, but I still use him way more than my champed Surfer. Is he still top 5? Probably not. Am I still going to keep using him? Heck yeah.

I guess this might depend a bit on your MMR level. OML is still king in the 390-270 level, but in the max MMR level the number of teams with OML+PH duos is much smaller now. It is true, that at least one of those is usually part of most of the teams, but the utility of Spidey when just one of them is in the team is much smaller. Teams with BBolt or Thanos are starting to be the norm, and those two can easily kill Spidey very fast.

It is not that Spidey is not usable anymore, he is a very good 5, but not very long ago he was top3 in most of the super whales lists. Now that we have more diverse 5s, I think he has probably been the first old 5 to fall from the top5 5s. For me the list now would be IM46, PH, BBolt, and then depending if PvE or PvP I would add Strange and OML for PvE or GG and Thanos for PvP (Thanos is probably the best 5 for PvP, but self damage is never cool for PvE, but for the hardest nodes of Gauntlet or Simulator he is definitely an option too).

Bowgentle

Polares wrote:

It is not that Spidey is not usable anymore, he is a very good 5, but not very long ago he was top3 in most of the super whales lists. Now that we have more diverse 5s, I think he has probably been the first old 5 to fall from the top5 5s. For me the list now would be IM46, PH, BBolt, and then depending if PvE or PvP I would add Strange and OML for PvE or GG and Thanos for PvP (Thanos is probably the best 5 for PvP, but self damage is never cool for PvE, but for the hardest nodes of Gauntlet or Simulator he is definitely an option too).

I'm ignoring all of these lists.

It's nice that the new 5s are totally awesome in single matches.

As long as I'm doing a single, sustained climb from 0 to 1200+, I''ll be running OML/other 5.

Polares

Bowgentle wrote:

Polares wrote:

It is not that Spidey is not usable anymore, he is a very good 5, but not very long ago he was top3 in most of the super whales lists. Now that we have more diverse 5s, I think he has probably been the first old 5 to fall from the top5 5s. For me the list now would be IM46, PH, BBolt, and then depending if PvE or PvP I would add Strange and OML for PvE or GG and Thanos for PvP (Thanos is probably the best 5 for PvP, but self damage is never cool for PvE, but for the hardest nodes of Gauntlet or Simulator he is definitely an option too).

I'm ignoring all of these lists.

It's nice that the new 5s are totally awesome in single matches.

As long as I'm doing a single, sustained climb from 0 to 1200+, I''ll be running OML/other 5.

Again, it depends where you play, and those lists are not absolutes they are opinions, but usually, BBolt and PH defeats the other team much faster than OML+ somebody else, so even though you take some damage and you might need to use some health packs every once in a while, it is still better because you climb faster, so you get to your goal with much lower number of attacks. And with 60-75 point fights, you don't really need to play that much to get to your first shield.

From 900 to 1200 I don't have any doubt BBolt+PH (or other good PvP teams without OML) is much better than any team with OML in it, specially if you use color boosts.

And soon, I am 100% sure Thanos+GG (or BBolt or IM46 if featured is team IM) will dominate PvP, and it will be the strongest team and the team to get for best results.

In PvE where repetition and longer periods of play is more important I still consider OML top5.


What it is evident is that people with 6+ champed 5s, have OML in much lower consideration than the rest of the forum/playerbase.

Bowgentle

Polares wrote:

Again, it depends where you play, and those lists are not absolutes they are opinions, but usually, BBolt and PH defeats the other team much faster than OML+ somebody else, so even though you take some damage and you might need to use some health packs every once in a while, it is still better because you climb faster, so you get to your goal with much lower number of attacks. And with 60-75 point fights, you don't really need to play that much to get to your first shield.

From 900 to 1200 I don't have any doubt BBolt+PH (or other good PvP teams without OML) is much better than any team with OML in it, specially if you use color boosts.

And soon, I am 100% sure Thanos+GG (or BBolt or IM46 if featured is team IM) will dominate PvP, and it will be the strongest team and the team to get for best results.

In PvE where repetition and longer periods of play is more important I still consider OML top5.


What it is evident is that people with 6+ champed 5s, have OML in much lower consideration than the rest of the forum/playerbase.

I may have forgotten to mention that my "other 5" that I'm running with OML is Bolt

OneLastGambit

As one of the few people who spotted the usefulness of spidey upon his release I can say that I can agree somewhat with point of this post.

Spidey was based around nullifying the big strikes brigade. I don't think the move away from strikes has hurt him as much as the intoroduction of so much AOE has. For me his first utility was hit without being hit and his strike nullifying was an outstanding second utility. With these AOE guys both of his primary uses are gone. Hell even the new cap will wipe the floor with spidey now

Quebbster

Guess I should start saving up my CP and tokens for a Latest Legends blowout later... I am up to 12 covers for both Silver Surfer and BSSM now, but I have to admit Thanos scares me quite a bit...

OneLastGambit

Jarvind wrote:

I mean, I'm not in 5* territory yet, but I think he was mainly boss because errrrrrrbody in that tier was using OML and Phoenix, who both generate loads of strikes. It only makes sense that Black Suit would become less valuable as other 5*s become more commonplace. I feel like Phoenix still rates highly even among current 5*s though, so I would guess he's still at least moderately useful.

There's also the possibility that more strike-heavy 5*s will come around.

I think both Phoenix and im45 rate highly because they both abuse the major reason why 5s are so much more powerful....match damage.

Polares

Quebbster wrote:

Guess I should start saving up my CP and tokens for a Latest Legends blowout later... I am up to 12 covers for both Silver Surfer and BSSM now, but I have to admit Thanos scares me quite a bit...

People adopted BBolt also quite fast, but since the beginning of 5s, I have not seen the adoption of any 5 as fast as Thanos. A lot of people has him champed already, A LOT, you see quite few teams with him, even at 435 or 420. He should be the maximum priority for anybody in 5 land, specially now that BBolt moved to classic.

Bowgentle wrote:

I may have forgotten to mention that my "other 5" that I'm running with OML is Bolt

Hahaha, ok, yeah, then I get it. OML tanks a lot with BBolt (both black and yellow), I thought of using him instead of PH, but PH is usually more fun to play, so I prefer to use her (and I also think BBolt+PH is a better team than BBolt+OML, more scary in defense too, if scary in defense really exists in 5 land ).

OneLastGambit wrote:

As one of the few people who spotted the usefulness of spidey upon his release I can say that I can agree somewhat with point of this post.

Spidey was based around nullifying the big strikes brigade. I don't think the move away from strikes has hurt him as much as the intoroduction of so much AOE has. For me his first utility was hit without being hit and his strike nullifying was an outstanding second utility. With these AOE guys both of his primary uses are gone. Hell even the new cap will wipe the floor with spidey now

Yeah, both BBolt and Thanos have extremely powerful AoEs, and they have not to die or transform to use them. BBolt needs a bit of APs, but as I said, If you boost him, everything is easier.

OneLastGambit

I think one could argue now that since OML will become far less widely used that BSSM will now fall much lower down the 5* ranking as his primary reason for use (nullifying strikes) is no longer needed.

Nerfing OML also gave a partial nerf to BSSM as well. Shame as I like him and his time has been artificially and prematurely ended. So of the characters in 5* classic pool OML, Phoenix and BSSM are all much lower in the pecking order now - when considered in team composition anyway. Especially since it's likely that Phoenix will be nerfed in the next 6 months or so when she becomes the next character to hit that dreaded 10% mark.

Polares

Yeah this is an indirect nerf to Spidey too obviously. None of them are top 5, or even top tier anymore.

PS: I doubt PH will be nerfed. Next target might be Thanos (even though he used most of the time just in PvP), but I don't think PH is in danger.

Marc_Spector

"BBSM"... black boot spider-man??

#BootToTheHead

Jaedenkaal

Big Black Spider-Man

Vhailorx

Polares said:

Yeah this is an indirect nerf to Spidey too obviously. None of them are top 5, or even top tier anymore.

PS: I doubt PH will be nerfed. Next target might be Thanos (even though he used most of the time just in PvP), but I don't think PH is in danger.

Thanos seems to be the consensus best 5* now, but his self-damage mechanics means that i dont think he will be the next nerf unless some new character is introduced that turns thanos into a pre-nerf sentry redux that can win any pvp match in 30 seconds.  If that ever happens thanos will be nerfed into oblivion to protect the sales of whatever new character makes the combo happen.

I think BB is the more likely next nerf target.  He is older than thanos, and has an incredibly powerful offensive passive, with the only downside being that his yellow is kinda ****.  

Magic

Thanos is probably asking for a Nerf much more than OML ever was. Still - he is safe as long as whales use him. When the whales move on to the next 3 5* - the Thanos will get his due Sad reality of this game.