Seeking opinions

broll

I'm at a turning point in my gameplay and looking for some advice.

Roster Update:

2* farm is going really well. I have 6 dedicated farm slots at this point.

3* championing is pretty much done, only non-champ is Thanos and the next 5* clone they make a 3* version of 3* champ levels 171 - 200

I'm hoarding up to charge into 4* territory all at once. Currently I have 0 4*s covered or with 13 covers. Top covered:
The Punisher (MAX) - 12 - 5/4/3 - L200
Wolverine (X-Force) - 12 - 3/5/4 - L200
Iron Man (Hulkbuster) - 11 - 5/3/3 - L200
Ant-Man (Scott Lang) - 10 - 3/2/5 - L200
Devil Dinosaur (Gigantic Reptile) - 10 - 2/4/4 - L70
Professor X (Charles Xavier) - 10 - 4/2/4 - L70
Cyclops (Classic) - 9 - 1/5/3 - L70
Jean Grey (All New X-Men) - 9 - 4/2/3 - L188
Thor (Goddess of Thunder) - 9 - 0/4/5 - L188
Peggy Carter (Captain America) -8 - 1/2/5 - L172

My hoard is as such:
ISO - 613,880
CP - 1075
LT - 26

What I've been doing while hoarding is trying to get 4* covers through progression and occasionally those new special vaults when they are good characters/deals. I'm starting to put ISO into my highest covered/best characters. I'm intentionally not leveling any 4* past 200 as that's the level of my highest 3* champ and I don't want to throw my scaling off too much. What I would really like to do is champ 3 top tier 4* characters at once.

Right now I'm debating when/how to rip the hoard open and tear into 4*s. Right now I see 3 options and I'm interested in hearing people's suggestions:

1. Latest Legends Run: Continue hoarding until Stran5 is about to drop out of Latest Legends and try and get both 4* champs and get a usable 5* or too, hopefully Strang5.
Pros:
- I'm primarily PvE and Strang5 seems to be the best PvE 5*. Having a usable, even if under leveled Strang5, could be really helpful.
Cons:
- Using CP on Latest Legends will net 20% fewer total covers vs Classics.
- It's extremely unlikely that I will get enough 5* covers to actually champ/13 cover any at a mean of 280ish pulls.

2. Classic Crusade: Continue hoarding until I hit 1 million ISO, pull from Classics and continue hoarding Latest Legend covers. Stop after getting 13 covers for 3 4* and/or I pull an unusable cover.
Pros:
- 20% more pulls from CPs then doing Latest Legends.
- It will be easier to stop pulling if I'm not chasing Strang5.
Cons:
- Probably end up spending more HP adding single covered 5* that won't be useful for 12+ months.
- Will need to restart hoarding CP before there would be any possibility of doing a Latest Legends run.

3. Infinite hoard: I have to assume at some point the devs have to address 4*/5* bloat and how difficult it is to progress in these territories. Continue to hoard CP and LTs hoping that something new comes out to where spending these will get more bang for the buck. With 4* covers getting more attainable from SCLs I can still grow 4*, just at much, slower pace.
Pros:
- Least likely to end up selling large numbers of unusable covers.
- If a new system comes out this could net a huge boost.
- If a new system does not come out there is always the option to do a Latest Legends run once I feel confident I have enough to bag a 13 covered 5*.
Cons:
- There is no guarantee when/if the current meta will change, this could be a very very long haul plan that ultimately nets nothing.
- This would ensure getting into 4* champ territory would take a very long time.

smoq84

I would say option number 2.

At this stage I find investing into Latest LT's not worth the cost. You should get 1 million ISO and then go through Classic LT's until you champ your first 4*'s.

JamieMadrox

I would pull latest legends right meow. Or at latest just before Black Widow rotates out. She's really good for PVE too and respectable for PVP.

Punisher5784

Whichever decision you choose, you'll need at least 1M Iso. It costs 320K+ to max level a 4* plus an additional 12,500 to champ.

When I finally opened my 1500 CP, I was able to champ 3 4*'s but if I didn't have the Iso I would not have been able to. Right now you have enough Iso to champ maybe two. Plus you also need to consider HP because I needed to open 7 slots for all the 4* and 5*'s I did not have.. that's 7000 HP that I was fortunate enough to have.

As far as the scaling... you'll need to make sure the 4*'s you do champ will actually help you (e.g. Rhulk, Thor) because my scaling in PVE has sucked since I champed some 4*'s a few weeks ago. My enemies increased over 100 levels which means ALOT OF HEALTH. It used to take me 1-2 hours for the 4 clears, now it takes me almost 4 hours and a lot more healthpacks plus I am stuck using IM40 with Thor all the time instead of variety. However, PVP has been much easier and I reached 900 for the first time last night.

Good luck on your journey!

GrumpySmurf1002

I"m going with option 4:

Empty your Latest Legends and keep progressing your 4* roster. Hold your CP for now.

69 pulls (using CP for LLs), while nice, isn't likely to progress you very far into 5* land; if you're lucky maybe its concentrated with 5-6 covers of one character but that's basically like adding a boosted 4 w/ extra damage.

26 LL pulls will get you 20-24 4* covers, which will help you start making that transition easier. I know it's popular to try to skip the 4* transition, but you'll need to do it eventually, simply because 5s don't come that frequently.

I also think something has to give with the classic legends, so I'm personally hoarding CP for a while until I have an idea of what that something is, but easier said than done when you have champed 5s as I do.

If you are going to spend CP though, then yeah, spend it on LLs. You'll have another 3-4 weeks probably for the existing crop, and Strange/Thanos are enough to make a run at after that, even if the next one is less than ideal.

ZeroKarma

It really depends on what your goals are right now. My advice to alliance mates is to pull Latest Legends only. If you are just starting now, then the best way to move forward is to hoard tokens until the next 5* comes into Latest tokens. (although Thanos did just come in so you should be safe). This gives you the best chance at pulling the covers to champ 3 5* characters, and they are all quite good right now. It is the best path to being competitive in PvP.

If you're focused mainly on PvE then I may ask you why you want 5* at all? A single champed 5* will kill your scaling. Doing this just to beat easy nodes faster?

RNG is what it is, but don't be deceived by the 20% more pulls for Classic tokens due to the CP discount. Since there are so many 5* in classics you can't reasonably cover them anymore thanks to the dilution. You also can't get covers swapped in Classic tokens. That "service" only applies to Latest Legends. Pulling classic tokens is only helpful for someone with the majority, if not all, of the classic 5* champed and a majority of 4* champed.

You can go with the infinite hoard, but when do you stop? Why stop at a pull rate change? Wait it out another 3 months for even better pull rates! Then another 3 months for them to go with colorless covers, then this, then that, etc.

Hendross

I'm going with option #5

1. Hoard your Latest tokens, you won't have enough before Strange is gone to make a dent.
2. Buy Classics until you get a 14th "decent cover" e.g top 10 character, max them don't worry about scaling.
3. Repeat, keep a stash of 300k ISO so you never sell a "good" cover. If you dip too low, (ISO) hoard until you're ready to resume opening.

Fightmastermpq

Save your LTs forever. Well, until you have several champed 4*s and enough CP+LTs for 500 latest pulls.

Start spending your CP on classics (you want 4*s here, not 5*s), with the goal of maxing at least 2 top tier 4*s so you can be more competitive in PvP. If you run out of ISO, stop pulling. If you pull a 6th cover of something sell it. You will sell HUNDREDS of 4* covers as you progress through the game. If a cover you need pops up as a progression reward make sure you bust your **** to get to that 900 - spend on shields if you have to. Same goes for PvE - if something pops up play your **** off to get it or try to bracket snipe for it.

Once you get to a point where you are regularly hitting 1200 in PvP with your roster of half a dozen or more champed 4*s, and have all your LTs saved up - then you start pulling Latest tokens to jump right in to the 5* tier. Don't forget to save up 1.75 million ISO for this day.

Magic

Saddly it's "Move on, nothing to see here" question. You lack the ISO to make any decision about it.

When you are starting the 4* progression (and if you don't want to skip it entirely) I would go for classics. Why? 20% more resources. That means more 4* covers (and some for the newly championed ones). You will not cover any 5* reasonably well - true. But you might get lucky and cover it a bit. Say... 2-2-2 OML. This would be a beast in your 4* transition period. You would play him all the time at lvl 320+ and maybe even get to 1200 in PvP while saving lots of health packs in PvE as well. This would be true for some other 5* from Classics. You would cover them a bit and they would help a bit (eg. quick work with trivial nodes or Lighting round seeds). Your main gain would be more 4* covers to maximize your progression. Better solution for a long term game but you have to pretty much forget about Strange and Thanos. With the current power creep that should not worry you too much. Even then I would hoard LT and open Classics on need basis. When you have ISO to max cover another 4* or can get it in time.

If you are thinking about skipping the 4* progression all together then hoarding to pull from the latest makes more sense. But you might not be able to hoard enough (roughly 250-280 pulls) by the time Strange rotates out. Or maybe you will be able as you have a solid head start. My guess is rather not... maybe even not with Thanos in them.

Long story short - you need to hoard ISO first (and while you do that - keep hoarding CP and LT). When you have enough ISO to champion two-three of TOP 4* (which means another 600-700k ISO - so that is probably a month worth of saving) you might want to ask the question again. You will have probably 30+LT and 1400+ CP. Still rather far from the 6500-7000 CP goal to whale Latest (not even half way there). On the other hand it's plenty of CP for classics to get the 4* cover you might need.

Calnexin

I'd recommend you hoard until just before Strang5 goes classic, then spend all your LT. If he's usable at that point, wait until he enters classics and spend your CP there. Your odds of more covers spedecrease but you're generating 25% more 4* covers that way to pad out your roster. If he's not usable, take your shot with latests before he expires.

An 8-9 cover 5* does a lot, but unless you have others of similar power to support them, you need a well developed 4* roster so you have options when boosted. 10 more covers can go a long way toward building viable team options.

BlackBoltRocks

It's good that you're asking for suggestions here (and yes I'm aware this is a suggestion from me lol). I myself have asked for opinions several times. But ultimately, and with due respect to everyone else, do what YOU want to do. I've hoarded 200CP to complete and champ two characters (120CP for my 5/4/3 Starlord, 80CP for my 2/5/2 3* Strange) and I've no regrets. You wanna hoard CP to buy specific covers, do that. You want to spend them on Classic LTs, do that. Ultimately it's a game; do what you feel and think will give you maximum enjoyment.

broll

Thanks to those who have responded so far!

Punisher5784 wrote:

Whichever decision you choose, you'll need at least 1M Iso. It costs 320K+ to max level a 4* plus an additional 12,500 to champ.

When I finally opened my 1500 CP, I was able to champ 3 4*'s but if I didn't have the Iso I would not have been able to. Right now you have enough Iso to champ maybe two.

1 million is my goal, however if I were to decide to open classics now I suspect I would be OK. Most of my top tier / high covered 4* I've put a good deal of ISO into so the max level cost would be cheaper. Probably still gonna save up a lot anyway just in case.

Punisher5784 wrote:

As far as the scaling... you'll need to make sure the 4*'s you do champ will actually help you (e.g. Rhulk, Thor) because my scaling in PVE has sucked since I champed some 4*'s a few weeks ago. My enemies increased over 100 levels which meant ALOT OF HEALTH. It used to take me 1-2 hours for the 4 clears, now it takes me almost 4 hours and a lot more healthpacks plus I am stuck using IM40 with Thor all the time instead of variety. However, PVP has been much easier and I reached 900 for the first time last night.

This is extremely useful feedback. One of the reasons my goal was to try and do 3 4*s at once is this exact concern. IMO this adds another pro to the infinite of hoard. If I can keep slowly accumulating resources the more I can champ in one shot to prevent from getting stuck with bad scaling.

ZeroKarma wrote:

It really depends on what your goals are right now.

Yeah I should have included my goals.
Current primary goals:
- Get 3-5 top tier 4*s champed (ideally in one shot) to get me into that realm of play both to continue my PvE progression and hopefully make PvP a little more playable. For reference I'm consider top tier to be: PunMax (12), IronMan HB (11), Teen Jean (9), Thoress (9), Peggy Carter (8), Red Hulk (8), Nova (6), & Iceman (5).
- Try to avoid selling any 4* or 5* covers, especially of the top tier ones listed above.

Longterm goals:
- Champ all 4* (yes even the bad ones, I'm a completionist, I know it will never happen, but that's still my asymptote.) I will certainly target the good ones first, but I gotta catch 'em all.

ZeroKarma wrote:

If you're focused mainly on PvE then I may ask you why you want 5* at all? A single champed 5* will kill your scaling. Doing this just to beat easy nodes faster?

Even if I were to get all 13 covers of Strang5, I would not champion him. I would only level him to keep him on par with my highest leveled non-5* characters and not champ. The goal in getting any 5* covers out of this were to get a usable 5*. If I were to get a 0/0/5 Strang5 and his passive damage was more than Strang3 then that would be a win. The other reason is get as many covers as possible for him because I know once he goes into classics under the current meta I can pretty much give up any hope of using him before 2019 . I know he's got a trip to purgatory coming up so I'm weighing the option of trying to get him before then.

So to be clear, my goal is absolutely not to skip the 4* tier.

broll

aesthetocyst wrote:

You didn't say whether HP was a concern, so I assume it isn't and you're willing/able to roster wnything that comes along.

I'm just now getting to the point where I'm regularly having a HP surplus, not a huge one, but 1-3K at any given time. I also have pretty much every character rostered except for about 5 of the 5*s and some 1*s. I've been doing well at rostering each new 4* as they come out so unless I get all the 5* I don't have at once HP shouldn't be a problem and it's why I didn't mention it.

aesthetocyst wrote:

Assuming slots are not an issue, you're at a great time in the game. Almost impossible to pull something you can't use.

Agreed, another reason I'm strongly considering the infinite hoard option is I know from what I've read here how rough 4* and 5* land are. Should I take a journey into RNG hell sooner than I have to or should I enjoy the land of milk and honey and hope hell freezed over before I get there?

aesthetocyst wrote:

Stop leveling 4*s so high. Park them somewhere between 133 and 150. 172 is the last 'cheap' level. Don't take them farther until ready to champ.

The main reason I've leveled so many so high is I was experimenting with actually using some of the top tier ones in daily play. It's been nice for them to be usable when boosted. I picked 200 as a cap as that's the level of my highest 3* right now, but I did notice how insanely expensive those final levels were getting (yes I know it get's worse). I actually was really close to a million ISO last week before I bumped many of them up to these levels and dropped like 500k on that effort. I don't expect I'll be doing that again. The vast majority of my 4* below this are still at L70 and I'm only putting anything in the when they are in a clash that seems winnable or if they are essential and they have enough covers to not be dead weight.

Rick_OShay

I'm in a very similar situation as the OP, so this thread has had useful advice already. With a PvE focus for T50, and a PvP goal of 575-800/900 depending greatly on which characters are boosted.
Similarly, I have two 4*'s with 12 covers, and a handful with 11 and 10 each. I have all 5*'s except BSSM, each of which average 2 covers each, up to max levels of just 270.

But, I decided to quit hoarding LT and CP over a month ago. I do maintain a minimum of 600K iso.
The reason is simple, why wait? Getting a 5* to 13 covers to champ would kill my PvE difficulty scaling (from what I've read), and likely PvP as well. I don't want more of a challenge to make T50 in PvE, and the 5's I have now - i.e. Thanos at 3 black covers - already work well for many nodes. Continuing to build 4*'s seems better right now than waiting months when new characters continue to get released.

To me, hoarding is meant for players that are already much higher in the 5* build. I want to build my 4* roster a bit faster than just earning through progression and the occasional Crash that I can win. I'm 6/8 in them lately, and had I not been pulling 4* covers there's no way I would have won as many. And there's been the occasional 4* dupe cover that I've had to sell (damn Ant-Man at 0/7/6). However, guess how many unusable covers you will get during your eventual hoard-pull? Tons. More than I'm getting now by not waiting? Probably, but remember I'm getting Usable 4* covers Now, much more than if I was hoard-waiting. And when I spike a 5trange yellow, or finally an OML yellow, that will be very much worth the non-hoarding over the near term in my case.
Hoarding didn't feel like progress, and it's been a bit of a relief.

Maybe I'm wrong, so please explain the roster level that makes the most sense for hoarding CP and LT. Besides, hoarding is less entertaining, and this game should not feel like work. Well, it still does. But we love it.

Evilgenius_9

Hendross wrote:

I'm going with option #5

1. Hoard your Latest tokens, you won't have enough before Strange is gone to make a dent.
2. Buy Classics until you get a 14th "decent cover" e.g top 10 character, max them don't worry about scaling.
3. Repeat, keep a stash of 300k ISO so you never sell a "good" cover. If you dip too low, (ISO) hoard until you're ready to resume opening.

This is my response typed up much more clearly and succinctly than I would have

broll

Rick OShay wrote:

To me, hoarding is meant for players that are already much higher in the 5* build.

I agree with this to a point. The reasons I am hoarding right now are:
1. As noted I don't want my scaling to go wonky by championing a single 4*. I feel hoarding will make me able to championing 3-5 at once easier.
2. Just in case the meta suddenly changes. Obviously you could make the argument that this potential never goes away so why ever use resources. However, right now it seems like the current meta is weighting down the game the wood is starting to splinter. We all think something has to give. I would feel like an idiot if I were to open my hoard earlier than I absolutely needed to, then the meta changed dramatically in some positive way.
3. I know it's like trying to hit the moon by throwing rocks, but I'm really dreading the day where I'm forced to sell 4* and 5* covers because they are unusable. I know it will inevitably happen (again unless the meta changes dramatically, but I want to do all I can to stave that off. Today there are only 9 4* covers that would be unusable were I to get them. That's 9 out of 132, so if all things were equal (which they aren't) I've got a 7% of a 4* I get from tokens not being usable. That number is only going to grow. The more characters I can champ in a single hoard the more I can keep that number down.

Straycat

You could play like me and just open everything as you get them. The most I've hoarded is about 10 tokens. Not the sabermetric most effective way to play, but so what? The amount of iso needed increases faster than you can earn anyways. But if you want to transition to 4* land, I voted classics.

I think having more usable 4*s makes pve better, even if scaling is a little tougher. I use Cyclops all the time, boosted or not. And when your 4* champ is boosted, pve is a breeze. If you open all your tokens you should hopefully have a nice amount of usable 4*s, that should make the game more interesting and easier.

Also I would advocate leveling up your 4*s. I usually park them at 188 higher if I have iso to spare. I just like that the cost to champ them is lower if you already invested some iso. I only stash 200k iso, the rest go to the bottom of the roster to bring as many as I can to the soft cap. I try to get rid of as many level up arrows as I can.

mohio

Rick OShay wrote:

I'm in a very similar situation as the OP, so this thread has had useful advice already. With a PvE focus for T50, and a PvP goal of 575-800/900 depending greatly on which characters are boosted.
Similarly, I have two 4*'s with 12 covers, and a handful with 11 and 10 each. I have all 5*'s except BSSM, each of which average 2 covers each, up to max levels of just 270.

But, I decided to quit hoarding LT and CP over a month ago. I do maintain a minimum of 600K iso.
The reason is simple, why wait? Getting a 5* to 13 covers to champ would kill my PvE difficulty scaling (from what I've read), and likely PvP as well. I don't want more of a challenge to make T50 in PvE, and the 5's I have now - i.e. Thanos at 3 black covers - already work well for many nodes. Continuing to build 4*'s seems better right now than waiting months when new characters continue to get released.

To me, hoarding is meant for players that are already much higher in the 5* build. I want to build my 4* roster a bit faster than just earning through progression and the occasional Crash that I can win. I'm 6/8 in them lately, and had I not been pulling 4* covers there's no way I would have won as many. And there's been the occasional 4* dupe cover that I've had to sell (damn Ant-Man at 0/7/6). However, guess how many unusable covers you will get during your eventual hoard-pull? Tons. More than I'm getting now by now waiting? Probably, but remember I'm getting Usable 4* covers Now, more than if I was hoard-waiting. And when I spike a 5trange yellow, or finally an OML yellow, that will be very much worth the non-hoarding over the near term in my case.

Maybe I'm wrong, so please explain the roster level that makes the most sense for hoarding CP and LT. Besides, hoarding is less entertaining, and this game should not feel like work. Well, it still does. But we love it.

I came to the same conclusion as you and decided that spending my CP on classic pulls was the best route. Trashing some covers here and there felt like a small price to pay for covering Rulk, and Iceman, and OML, and PHX, etc. From a 5* perspective though, things have changed in the last 6+ months. The 5* are so diluted in classics that you can't really expect to build a usable 5* there without getting insanely lucky. Thus, I would ignore 5* when considering classics and just focus on the 4* equation. The reason you see so many people suggesting hoarding or only opening until you get a 14th cover for someone good is because we are mostly all min-maxers here. No one wants to waste hard won rewards, so you hoard resources to ensure you get the most out of them. We also all know this game is more about patience and building for the future (unless you're spending a bunch of money, which the OP is clearly not doing). So with that in mind, you are often better off waiting to see what other covers you might earn or pull from tokens before deciding to spend a bunch of CP opening covers you don't really want and eventually sell for 1000 iso. Applying those covers as champion rewards is a much more valuable thing to do, so when you can afford to do it, saving cp for later is usually the best thing to do.

As always, everyone should do what is going to make them happiest in the game. If you feel your progression has stagnated, do what you can to make that next step. If you just need one or two more 4* covers to champion some top tier chars, maybe just buy the cover. Or open LTs til you get it. If you're stuck transitioning to 5*, you might have to save CP for 6+ months in order to have enough to max out the ones in latest legends. The people here can tell you what might be theoretically best, but only you can really decide what will make the game most enjoyable for you.

Rick_OShay

broll wrote:

The reasons I am hoarding right now are:
1. As noted I don't want my scaling to go wonky by championing a single 4*. I feel hoarding will make me able to championing 3-5 at once easier.

Once you eventually champ 3-5 at once do you not fear that your scaling will jump to a point where you are forced to ONLY play these characters, and theoretically get less play-value from the game since your lower characters will now be useless in comparison?
Maybe this is worth it to most of you? I realize the top 8 or so are superior of course. Will you not have a more difficult time reaching near term progression and placement goals because you are waiting to build things up drastically at a later date?
Perhaps most of you are comfortable playing only a handful of characters?

I am under the impression that my plan to champ single 4*'s as I progress along while building up others, the gradual scaling base will not be incredibly changed/increased = > full 3* champ roster, with 15 4*s at lvl 146-200, and no 5*'s above 270-300.

No hoard-bashing here, I just personally come to the conclusion that waiting wasn't right for my roster at this point. Now, if you want the higher draw rates for 5*'s in Latest Legends, that certainly is smart planning for the odds there. But you are talking mostly 4*'s here.

broll

Rick OShay wrote:

broll wrote:

The reasons I am hoarding right now are:
1. As noted I don't want my scaling to go wonky by championing a single 4*. I feel hoarding will make me able to championing 3-5 at once easier.

Once you eventually champ 3-5 at once do you not fear that your scaling will jump to a point where you are forced to ONLY play these characters, and theoretically get less play-value from the game since your lower characters will now be useless in comparison?
Maybe this is worth it to most of you?

Yeah it depends on what your goals are. For me I'm playing less for love the actual gameplay mechanics of puzzle matching and more for the enjoyment of building the best roster the fastest. So for me it's all about how quickly can I clear the content to get the most rewards per day while still balancing the rest of life. I don't what my scaling to get jacked to where it slows down my progression as suggested here:

Punisher5784 wrote:

As far as the scaling... <snip>since I champed some 4*'s a few weeks ago. My enemies increased over 100 levels which means ALOT OF HEALTH. It used to take me 1-2 hours for the 4 clears, now it takes me almost 4 hours and a lot more healthpacks plus I am stuck<snip>

Playing the same 3-5 characters is what I expect will happen after I get those 3-5 champs, but that's gonna happen whether it's done gradually or not. I'd rather not suffer through a slow transition and just rip the band-aid off. 6 months ago I was still building my 3*s so I remember how annoying it was at time to be stuck playing the same few characters, but it's unfortunately something that is part of progression and each new tier you go through this, some longer than others, and it's unavoidable.

dsds

The answer really depends on how much free time you have in the future. If you have tons of free time in the future and want to spend it on mpq, then by all means, open tokens, etc. You'll need much more iso to champ multiple 4* characters that you will inevitably get. This means playing 4 hours a day. Playing the lightning rounds, playing pve, playing pve. Hitting 10 pt pvp matched to get the 70-140 iso, not using boosts to conserve your iso.

If you don't have a lot of free time in the future, then there is only 2 options for you.
1.) don't open your hoard
2.) turn on your phone and uninstall the game. It is way too expensive to progress once you've reached 3* land and requires way too much time for a casual game. Don't let the game get you addicted to playing it for min 4 hours a day. There is still hope for you. Maybe not for the rest of us though because we are hooked already.