End Game

El Satanno

Gmax101 wrote:

So what keeps the high end players playing… they have everything… they are stuck in 5* MMR hell, their scaling is off the charts… and it is the same old stories over and over again but yet they keep playing and paying… and again, I wonder why…

I'm surprised it hasn't come up more often yet, but for many (myself included) it's about the people in your alliance. A lot of banter is about all the problems we have with the game! But here we are all the same. And some of us are still having fun!

Personally, I enjoy the game. I've said it plenty, too. Match-3 games jive with me. I still have and play the original Puzzle Quest on my PSP. Great game. If I had something like that with Marvel characters like this one, I'm not sure I'd ever play anything else ever again. Sadly MPQ is nowhere near as robust as Puzzle Quest but I suppose that's to be expected. Even so, I like the game, warts and all.

So between those two things I'm still happy playing here at the high end.

PS: Broll also hit a major point with the "stop playing Story competitively" post. Seriously, the day I stopped doing that was like being reborn.

OneLastGambit

I've seen this phrase used a few times on here "end game" and I believe it's a misunderstanding of the game.

Games like uncharted or arkham knight have an "end game" mpq is a continuous play game which has no end unless the devs pull the plug. If you were ever expecting to reach the end then you are perhaps a little mistaken.

Either you play continuously or you quit. There is no "end game" If there were then the vets in 5* land would have finished and reached the end and stopped playing.

wirius

Anytime you start feeling like this about a game, quit for 2 weeks. Seriously, DO IT. If in two weeks you're going, "Man, I miss me some MPQ", you'll come back. If you CAN'T quit, then you have a problem. The solution? Quit for two weeks. You won't miss anything. Life will continue. You will come back in two weeks and regret not getting the rewards for all of 2 seconds.

Play games because you enjoy them, not because you are addicted.

Piro_plock

OneLastGambit wrote:

I've seen this phrase used a few times on here "end game" and I believe it's a misunderstanding of the game.

Games like uncharted or arkham knight have an "end game" mpq is a continuous play game which has no end unless the devs pull the plug. If you were ever expecting to reach the end then you are perhaps a little mistaken.

Either you play continuously or you quit. There is no "end game" If there were then the vets in 5* land would have finished and reached the end and stopped playing.

I believe you misunderstood the term "endgame". It's not finishing the game (having done everything it had to offer) and putting it down. It's like in MMOs: after you get to the max level, there's a whole new experience, hard modes, elite dungeons etc. This game offers NOTHING like that.

Crnch73

GurlBYE wrote:

Whether you are 1,2,3,4 or 5 star, the game doesn't change. Game play doesn't change enough to warrant the chase at the moment. (well arguably, 1 to 2 does. 2 to 3 more so. but flat lines due to the variance of characters from that tier up)

this is a big problem in my opinion. If you get better, the enemies just get stronger. They are the same enemies as ever, so it's not varying between someone with all 4* champed and someone like me. There is no true "progress" in this game. Now, that isn't to say that if you have 5* champs, you should only face level 166 level enemies. But overall, what is the point in making your roster stronger? When jumping up to the next tier, enemies become very difficult. I have 3 champ 4* (thor, cyke, and iceman), and my scaling is so high that I have use at least 2 of them in every match. So, the initial phase is tough while I try to build more 4* champs.

The burn out comes right here. I feel like I shouldn't have even bothered champing any 4*. Keep them at 13 covers, soft cap them at like level 200, and move on. Is the LT reward for champing a 4* really worth the new hassle? At some point, the game should scale slower or less, and just keep the higher end players competing against eachother. Don't let people with super rosters kick the **** out of 3* players. There should be some sort of reward for progress. In reality, progress is supposed to lead to more progress. In this game, you get the ball rolling in the right direction and all you get as a reward is a steeper slope.

OneLastGambit

Piro_plock wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

I've seen this phrase used a few times on here "end game" and I believe it's a misunderstanding of the game.

Games like uncharted or arkham knight have an "end game" mpq is a continuous play game which has no end unless the devs pull the plug. If you were ever expecting to reach the end then you are perhaps a little mistaken.

Either you play continuously or you quit. There is no "end game" If there were then the vets in 5* land would have finished and reached the end and stopped playing.

I believe you misunderstood the term "endgame". It's not finishing the game (having done everything it had to offer) and putting it down. It's like in MMOs: after you get to the max level, there's a whole new experience, hard modes, elite dungeons etc. This game offers NOTHING like that.

That has never been promised though so it's unreasonable to expect it to be here.

Straycat

I believe you misunderstood the term "endgame". It's not finishing the game (having done everything it had to offer) and putting it down. It's like in MMOs: after you get to the max level, there's a whole new experience, hard modes, elite dungeons etc. This game offers NOTHING like that.

That has never been promised though so it's unreasonable to expect it to be here.

Never been promised, sure, but every MMO should have that in mind. Right now the endgame is entirely in the meta, collecting and maxing characters. They are just moving the goal posts with ultimately the same end. Putting something in for people with level 330+ 5 stars or something would give some sort of endgame content people can shoot for. If there was content locked away until I collected and leveled up my 5*s that would be a priority. Right now I'd almost rather get 4* champ level or low covered 4* instead of a 5* when I open my tokens.

firethorne

Yeah, I'm quickly headed to my own "Now what?" moment. I've got most of the "good" 4*'s champed now. Peggy is two covers away, MaxPun one away. I've been saving my CP to just buy them because I just want them over with, and the RNG is simply the worst. There are newer 4*'s like Wasp or Agent Venom that I'm a ways from having fully covered, but what's the point? They aren't as good as the characters I've already champed.

My next step should be upward. On to 5* land. But, the path is not there. I have absolutely no interest in saving every bit of CP and token for eight months to dump it all on Latest tokens sometime in the fall. Just saving for a bit to get 240 CP for Peggy has been a bit dull. Minimal upward momentum for the majority of a year just sounds like the pits. And, even if I did, the "Now what?" is still there. In fact, it sounds like it is even more bleak. Once you pass a certain threshold with 5*, PvE scaling blows most of your existing characters out of usefulness. You'll use your won 5*'s from your hoard exclusively in PvP. You get the reward of the same fights over and over. Getting these long term reward characters should make the game better, but all indications seem to be the opposite. There isn't anything new for these 5*'s to do, the existing content scales in a brutal manner and funnel you into few options since they take so long to build.

blargrx

i'm in the same boat as everyone else. securely in 4* land and slowly grinding away to eventually break into 5* land when i finally hit 300 LT. i've been saving for 6 months already and it'll probably take me another 6-8 months to reach my goal.

my question is, do i really want to get into 5* land? part of me says yes, because its the natural progression.. max out the characters in one level to start building to the next. part of me says hell no! the pitfalls of having maxed 5* have been well documented on the forums by other players.

the game is still fun, i enjoy trying to find new combos of characters or my own little achievements (most strike tiles, strongest attack tile, most crits on the board etc)

i guess i'll find out in 6-8 months

LT goal: 145/300

smkspy

Crnch73 wrote:

GurlBYE wrote:

Whether you are 1,2,3,4 or 5 star, the game doesn't change. Game play doesn't change enough to warrant the chase at the moment. (well arguably, 1 to 2 does. 2 to 3 more so. but flat lines due to the variance of characters from that tier up)

this is a big problem in my opinion. If you get better, the enemies just get stronger. They are the same enemies as ever, so it's not varying between someone with all 4* champed and someone like me. There is no true "progress" in this game. Now, that isn't to say that if you have 5* champs, you should only face level 166 level enemies. But overall, what is the point in making your roster stronger? When jumping up to the next tier, enemies become very difficult. I have 3 champ 4* (thor, cyke, and iceman), and my scaling is so high that I have use at least 2 of them in every match. So, the initial phase is tough while I try to build more 4* champs.

The burn out comes right here. I feel like I shouldn't have even bothered champing any 4*. Keep them at 13 covers, soft cap them at like level 200, and move on. Is the LT reward for champing a 4* really worth the new hassle? At some point, the game should scale slower or less, and just keep the higher end players competing against eachother. Don't let people with super rosters kick the **** out of 3* players. There should be some sort of reward for progress. In reality, progress is supposed to lead to more progress. In this game, you get the ball rolling in the right direction and all you get as a reward is a steeper slope.

You shouldn't worry cause your scaling would generally be same without your champed 4s. I've got 9 champed 4s. My GF has zero, and her top characters are a bunch of 1 cover 5s. When comparing our scaling, my maxed nodes are only about 20-60 levels higher than hers (easy nodes are the small max level) That is a HUGE disconnect imo, but just shows how much this game has conditioned to fear scaling.

CT1888

firethorne wrote:

My next step should be upward. On to 5* land. But, the path is not there. I have absolutely no interest in saving every bit of CP and token for eight months to dump it all on Latest tokens sometime in the fall. Just saving for a bit to get 240 CP for Peggy has been a bit dull. Minimal upward momentum for the majority of a year just sounds like the pits.

I'm with you on this. For, if I have to put progress on hold for 6+ months, them what am I playing the game for? I'm still a wee ways away from that point, and every time I've reached it in the past a new feature has come along to sustain the interest.
I've somehow managed to get 4 x 5* up to 8 covers, and I know that the odds just keep getting worse that I'll ever finish any of them, so yeah, hopefully a new feature / token type / something will come down the line.

veny

I also wonder why. Why should be building a roster with hundreds of different heroes? Sure, to champ them, promote them and get valuable rewards like LTs and CPs and HP, but still. This game kinda fails in rewarding/motivating players who have many covers champed. If we could send champs for missions or so, grinding and collecting them would be much more funny.

Bowgentle

smkspy wrote:

Crnch73 wrote:

GurlBYE wrote:

Whether you are 1,2,3,4 or 5 star, the game doesn't change. Game play doesn't change enough to warrant the chase at the moment. (well arguably, 1 to 2 does. 2 to 3 more so. but flat lines due to the variance of characters from that tier up)

this is a big problem in my opinion. If you get better, the enemies just get stronger. They are the same enemies as ever, so it's not varying between someone with all 4* champed and someone like me. There is no true "progress" in this game. Now, that isn't to say that if you have 5* champs, you should only face level 166 level enemies. But overall, what is the point in making your roster stronger? When jumping up to the next tier, enemies become very difficult. I have 3 champ 4* (thor, cyke, and iceman), and my scaling is so high that I have use at least 2 of them in every match. So, the initial phase is tough while I try to build more 4* champs.

The burn out comes right here. I feel like I shouldn't have even bothered champing any 4*. Keep them at 13 covers, soft cap them at like level 200, and move on. Is the LT reward for champing a 4* really worth the new hassle? At some point, the game should scale slower or less, and just keep the higher end players competing against eachother. Don't let people with super rosters kick the **** out of 3* players. There should be some sort of reward for progress. In reality, progress is supposed to lead to more progress. In this game, you get the ball rolling in the right direction and all you get as a reward is a steeper slope.

You shouldn't worry cause your scaling would generally be same without your champed 4s. I've got 9 champed 4s. My GF has zero, and her top characters are a bunch of 1 cover 5s. When comparing our scaling, my maxed nodes are only about 20-60 levels higher than hers (easy nodes are the small max level) That is a HUGE disconnect imo, but just shows how much this game has conditioned to fear scaling.

4* scaling is fine.
Scaling when you have 2+ champed 5s is where it breaks down.

GurlBYE

Welcome Death wrote:

GurlBYE wrote:

Whether you are 1,2,3,4 or 5 star, the game doesn't change. Game play doesn't change enough to warrant the chase at the moment. (well arguably, 1 to 2 does. 2 to 3 more so. but flat lines due to the variance of characters from that tier up)

You become a bigger whale in the same pond, hence why 5 star champ players don't like much of anything except punching each other in pvp for 4 points a match till they hit 2k. And win 3 covers of characters they have champed but can't use due to scaling, until they are boosted in an event to win more awards that don't benefit them.

To the second point....nobody in the 5* tier is hitting 4 point targets to 2k. That's just not how the system works. Anything after 1k is an equal amount won for you as loss to the other player. And 4 points would mean you'd have to be hundreds of points above other available 5* targets, who would be finding you for 70 points. That, added with the fact that matches take considerably longer in 5* play make it impossible for someone to do that in that method. That's 250 matches from 1k to 2k without a hit AND people hopping off each other hundreds of points below and skipping you. It just wouldn't work. They get there by shield hopping a bunch off of each other to maximize point gain. How it works now, how it's always worked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Nw4lzd ... e=youtu.be

???

smkspy

Yeah, I agree. But you see so many threads and posts from people afraid to have their scaling dramatically go up whether unfounded or not. Overall though, just because scaling works relatively well, those fears do show how poorly scaling has been botched at all levels.

Though I will say that I vastly prefer scaling in 4 star land than when I was a 3 star player. It may be higher, but having that roster depth at 4 tier levels more than makes up for it. Which is why I am just gonna ride the 4 champing wave for it is worth, not even gonna really fret pushing up into the 5 star.

Electrovirus

Gmax101 wrote:

Over the last few weeks I have been pondering my MPQ future….

I am in a fun alliance who all seem to enjoy playing, even if we do seem to finish just out of the top 100. I have spent a fair sum of money over the last 2 years, but I value an enjoyable past time quite highly, so until very recently I have never “regretted” that investment.

And I am also willing to admit that characters like Dr Strange (along with his new event) and Medusa have been interesting.

But in general, a combination of numerous bugs in every patch and the general attitude that we should be grateful when something new is delivered, even when that “new thing” actually dilutes the current game. (I struggle to believe that Elite Tokens in the Shield intercepts have done anything other than reduce the chances of 1,000 or 2,000 ISO rewards or the Heroic Tokens, so net worsening the output. They could easily prove us wrong with clear communication of the odds before and after)

As a 4* transitioner, with 20 champed 4* and a multi-million ISO shortfall stopping the max-levelling of my 4* roster as-is, the only logical point of progression is 5*

A tier of the game that is fundamentally flawed in terms of scaling and over-all game impact, given the fact that using the full roster is nigh on impossible, and the only method of progression is RNG.

So my question is WHY?

Why should I strive to complete my 4* champions when there is a new one every 2 weeks, making it literally impossible…

Why should I invest hoards of hard-earned CP to try and get 5* characters that I either leave at a low level due to poor cover splits or invest in at the expense of what fun I have left in the game…

Why should I complete Enemy of the State for the 4/5/6th time, when the story hasn’t changed and now with Quake and Luke Cage powerman, whatever challenge there used to be due to caltrops is now no more...

Why should I battle hard in PVP only to have 10 whales wipe out multiple games of progression in the time it takes me to get the 40 points I need to get past a certain point…

Now I do actually want to get the current selection of 4* fully covered, I need 22 covers… but that is because I have a slightly obsessive approach to these things… but I can only do it grinding the same fights against the same characters over and over again…. Which is less enjoyable.

So what keeps the high end players playing… they have everything… they are stuck in 5* MMR hell, their scaling is off the charts… and it is the same old stories over and over again but yet they keep playing and paying… and again, I wonder why…

To stave my frustration I have resigned myself to the fact that without spending huge amounts of time and money I will never champion my entire 4* collection, let alone fully cover a 5*. There is just too many levels to gain and not enough ISO. I am certain that the developers intentionally restrict ISO and intend for players to have incomplete collections and I have no problem with that. My goal now is to level up and enjoy the game at my own pace. No one says I have to strive to keep up with the pace of 4* hero releases, or invest hordes of CP on legendaries, or complete EOTS for the umpteenth time. These are things you are putting upon yourself and it is bothering you that you can't hit it.

You admit to yourself that you have an obsessive approach to these types of things. Unless you have a lot of disposable income or can devote your waking life to this game you need to come to grips to the fact that you will not ever hit 100% all champed all max level. It is impossible.

ammenell

i still need to poop.
thats the reason of mpqs existence on my phone.

Crnch73

smkspy wrote:

You shouldn't worry cause your scaling would generally be same without your champed 4s. I've got 9 champed 4s. My GF has zero, and her top characters are a bunch of 1 cover 5s. When comparing our scaling, my maxed nodes are only about 20-60 levels higher than hers (easy nodes are the small max level) That is a HUGE disconnect imo, but just shows how much this game has conditioned to fear scaling.

speaking from my personal experience, it is vastly different, and it makes no sense. I have all 3* champed, so when they boost any amount of them, they instantly become my highest rated characters by far. But somehow, with 3 champ 4*, my scaling has skyrocketed. I am not trying to say it compares to the 5* problem, but it is something I experience regularly. the last 2-3 nodes all turn to red difficulty after 3 times through. I don't necessarily get it, but it has made my situation much harder than it used to be. So it isn't a conditioned fear in my situation, it is something I have experience with. Again, not trying to even compare to the next tier, but they make it harder the higher you go. At some point, you should be rewarded for building a great roster. We shouldn't always face a steeper slope just because we climbed higher, nature isn't asymptotic.

broll

Piro_plock wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

I've seen this phrase used a few times on here "end game" and I believe it's a misunderstanding of the game.

Games like uncharted or arkham knight have an "end game" mpq is a continuous play game which has no end unless the devs pull the plug. If you were ever expecting to reach the end then you are perhaps a little mistaken.

Either you play continuously or you quit. There is no "end game" If there were then the vets in 5* land would have finished and reached the end and stopped playing.

I believe you misunderstood the term "endgame". It's not finishing the game (having done everything it had to offer) and putting it down. It's like in MMOs: after you get to the max level, there's a whole new experience, hard modes, elite dungeons etc. This game offers NOTHING like that.

As he stated, you misunderstand the game. This isn't an MMO. Since there is no end date in sight for when they stop aggressively adding 4 & 5 * characters it's tinykitty near impossible to reach and stay at max level in this game (defining max level as rostering and max level/champ leveling every character). In fact they seem to make ISO relatively difficult/slow to get so that even if you could roster every new character quickly, you likely couldn't afford to max level it (not to mention the RNG of 100 champ levels). There's a 2 reasons why they do this. 1. They want people to throw money at trying to do this. 2. Their is no 'end game' as you describe and they don't want people to get bored and quit because they get to 'end game' and feel they have nothing to do. It's not a destination, it's a hamster wheel that intentionally never ends until they shutdown the game.

Piro_plock

broll wrote:

Their is no 'end game' as you describe and they don't want people to get bored and quit because they get to 'end game' and feel they have nothing to do. It's not a destination, it's a hamster wheel that intentionally never ends until they shutdown the game.

Then this is a sign of a bad game design. Are you familiar with the concept of Skinner box? After you get to a certain level, MPQ becomes essentially a slot machine. If the developers won't add some endgame content, the long-time players (who tend to spend the most) are going to keep quitting. This is not a sustainable model.