Development Thread - (12/15/16)

Mainloop25

Hibernum_Will wrote:

schattenstern wrote:

Is there any hope of getting the Dynavolt tower by progression rewards?
Currently the ties are too big of a problem to distribute a exclusive card through this.

We want Dynavolt Tower to be a really special Reward, so we're giving it out through the leaderboard. The length of the Event (and number of battles) should help with the number of ties. In Platinum, the top 25 players will win the card. (In Silver and Gold, the top 5 players in each room will win the card.)

I'm not sure if you understand the problem. A perfect score doesn't guarantee you a top 25 spot. There are more than 25 people who will hit a perfect score, especially with such a good prize on the line. As I understand it, you have to have a perfect score, And be one of the first people to reach it.

bk1234

Thank you for answering my question-- I do, however, have a second:

If a team is at say 16, will they have to play at 16 or will those slots be open to join during the event and locked once a player is in?

Hibernum_Will

Mainloop25 wrote:

I'm not sure if you understand the problem. A perfect score doesn't guarantee you a top 25 spot. There are more than 25 people who will hit a perfect score, especially with such a good prize on the line. As I understand it, you have to have a perfect score, And be one of the first people to reach it.

There are a few factors that can increase or decrease the number of ties. The main ones are:

1) The maximum battles playable in an event
2) The difficulty of your opponents and the optional objectives
3) The granularity of the scoring
4) The number of potential opponents

While you're correct that there's currently no guarantee, we're actively balancing the above factors to limit the number of ties. (For example, in this week's Nodes of Power I believe there were only two players in Platinum with a perfect score.)

As I mentioned before, we're looking into a few long-term options for better tie resolution.

bken1234 wrote:

Thank you for answering my question-- I do, however, have a second:

If a team is at say 16, will they have to play at 16 or will those slots be open to join during the event and locked once a player is in?

Currently the team would have to play at 16. Make sure to recruit players early!

Mainloop25

Hibernum_Will wrote:

Mainloop25 wrote:

I'm not sure if you understand the problem. A perfect score doesn't guarantee you a top 25 spot. There are more than 25 people who will hit a perfect score, especially with such a good prize on the line. As I understand it, you have to have a perfect score, And be one of the first people to reach it.

There are a few factors that can increase or decrease the number of ties. The main ones are:

1) The maximum battles playable in an event
2) The difficulty of your opponents and the optional objectives
3) The granularity of the scoring
4) The number of potential opponents

While you're correct that there's currently no guarantee, we're actively balancing the above factors to limit the number of ties. (For example, in this week's Nodes of Power I believe there were only two players in Platinum with a perfect score.)

As I mentioned before, we're looking into a few long-term options for better tie resolution.

bken1234 wrote:

Thank you for answering my question-- I do, however, have a second:

If a team is at say 16, will they have to play at 16 or will those slots be open to join during the event and locked once a player is in?

Currently the team would have to play at 16. Make sure to recruit players early!

These are steps in the right direction. I will wait and see what the long term solutions turn out to be

bk1234

Hibernum_Will wrote:

Currently the team would have to play at 16. Make sure to recruit players early!

Thanks for answering-- a couple suggestions.

1. Many players enter events as time allows, which means they join events after they start. Will you be posting an advisory in-game so these players know to lock in with a coalition before the event starts?

2. Also would there be a way to post an event schedule on the forum once a week so teams can better prepare?

octal9

Have there been any considerations to a personal history for event scores? Some players have been putting forth significant effort to track even their own scores over events - but a lack of history makes that difficult.

Maybe even a public API? I would be so happy. I'd literally plug it into my website the same day it came out.

Hibernum_Will

octal9 wrote:

Have there been any considerations to a personal history for event scores? Some players have been putting forth significant effort to track even their own scores over events - but a lack of history makes that difficult.

Maybe even a public API? I would be so happy. I'd literally plug it into my website the same day it came out.

It's not currently in the works - but I really like the idea!

jogamundo

a feature i would like to see is being able to see the breakpoints on the leaderboard.

i see 2 options at the moment.
1) being able to scroll through the whole ladder
- suspect this is not viable technology wise due to the number of people in a ladder

2) displaying only the first person at each point score and their current position on the ladder.


Currently the ladder looks like this
1) player a - 100 pts
2) player b - 100 pts
3) player c - 100 pts
...

this supplies very useless information especially when the top 11 players all have the same score.
the same is true when you are looking at the range that contains your own current score and you are in a similar clump of players with everyone at the same number of points.


My suggested solution would display the ladder like this.
1) player a - 100 pts
23) player J - 99 pts
47) player z - 98 pts
96) player v - 97 pts
...

with a ladder display in this format you can quickly see how many positions you can jump by achieving your next match points. It also lets you know how many players are grouped together with the same number of points.



thanks for listening.

Morphis

I'll try again: any chance the game gets an overhaul on the rule engine?

Previous experience with the game leads me to believe some things were not preemptively considered, like difference needed between cast and summon has recently shown or the good old "stolen creatures triggering etb effects"

Is by any chance a redesign under development or even discussed?

Yawgmoth

About Thalia and the discontinued Emrakul's events:
There's one thing you could do to help balance out the missing rewards - simply add a few Eldritch Moon [EMN] booster packs to as prizes to a few events. There were very few of those packs given out total.

Hibernum_JC

Morphis wrote:

I'll try again: any chance the game gets an overhaul on the rule engine?

Previous experience with the game leads me to believe some things were not preemptively considered, like difference needed between cast and summon has recently shown or the good old "stolen creatures triggering etb effects"

Is by any chance a redesign under development or even discussed?

It's something we are looking into. No promises or ETAs, but we are looking into it. There's quite a few things I'm dissatisfied about regarding action ordering/turn sequence that I'd like to see changed (for the better, I hope!) but it's a complicated affair. For example, I'm not a huge fan of how we are currently handling creature deaths in combat when abilities are concerned, and we have some under the hood issues with card targeting and casting that I would *REALLY* like to see reworked.

And FYI, the "stolen creatures triggering etb effects" is something that I believe is fixed and will be coming in a future update. There's a reason it was in - our previous engineer explained to me at the time that it was somewhat necessary due to how we were generating activated abilities. A long time ago, we had a pretty major bug with activated abilities that would remain in play with the wrong owner when taking control or returning control and the solution to that was to trigger etb effects. Through our various code reworks, this issue was eventually fixed but the etb is still being triggered when it no longer needs to be, so I *think* that our current engineer warrior has fixed it (the fix will be in a future update as it still needs testing).

I'm happy to see though that in general, the Kaladesh set is relatively bug-free (in terms of cards and effects, not other types of bugs that can crop up!). I'm a bit saddened that you guys don't seem to be enjoying the energy mechanic (at least I haven't seen many positive posts about it) as it was something I rather liked during the development process. I love the flexibility it gives to cards with Overload, and the new Planeswalkers are actually very strong and designed to be able to work by themselves: Dovin Baan works quite well by himself, and doesn't even need Overload cards to be effective, but just benefits more from them. He has enough energy generation to be self-sufficient (I made sure to design him that way - his first and second abilities generate a lot of energy!) and to make sure his third ability procs often. Maybe it's something we should have made a bit clearer when we released him.

octal9

Hibernum_JC wrote:

For example, I'm not a huge fan of how we are currently handling creature deaths in combat when abilities are concerned

Sounds like you're referencing Lone Rider/It That Rides as One (among others, but this one pops to the forefront in terms of "unexpected interactions")!

Hibernum_JC wrote:

I'm a bit saddened that you guys don't seem to be enjoying the energy mechanic (at least I haven't seen many positive posts about it) as it was something I rather liked during the development process.

I can't speak for others but I know right now I'm mostly unable to use it due to not having the Overload cards I'd like - things like the two mythic supports, or additional Energize to power my Saheeli's Artistry (a card I'm very intrigued by, but can't fit in yet due to my own lack of energize cards).

It could also be that many, many people are running decks from older blocks just due to their power level - SOI & EMN are very, very strong sets.

Edit:

Hibernum_JC wrote:

we have some under the hood issues with card targeting and casting

Are you aware of the current hexproof issue? We cannot target our own hexproof creatures.

Hibernum_JC

octal9 wrote:

Sounds like you're referencing Lone Rider/It That Rides as One (among others, but this one pops to the forefront in terms of "unexpected interactions")!

What I mean is that some abilities can deal damage to creatures during combat and remove them immediately, which causes all sorts of weird issues.

octal9 wrote:

I can't speak for others but I know right now I'm mostly unable to use it due to not having the Overload cards I'd like - things like the two mythic supports, or additional Energize to power my Saheeli's Artistry (a card I'm very intrigued by, but can't fit in yet due to my own lack of energize cards).

Saheeli's Artistry is very strong, especially with Dovin Baan and even a few of the common/uncommon Energize cards. Whirler Virtuoso, Aether Theorist and Decoction Module, for example, are all examples of low-mana cost creatures that Energize quite a bit. But it's also part of what makes Dovin Baan very strong - he will generate so much energy that all the Overload cards are that much better by definition. His 3rd ability is one of the strongest Overload abilities in the game (if not THE strongest!), so that's the point I'm trying to make - I think a lot of people underestimate Dovin Baan because they haven't played him so it might be difficult to realize his full potential.

octal9 wrote:

It could also be that many, many people are running decks from older blocks just due to their power level - SOI & EMN are very, very strong sets.

Indeed, SOI and EMN are both very strong. Strictly speaking a properly built Kaladesh deck should be able to beat a lot of SOI decks, and Kaladesh also offers something rather unique - if you play a Kaladesh set, you alone will benefit from your energy generation and Overload, but Kaladesh planeswalkers and cards also benefit so much from playing against an opponent that generates a lot of energy. When you start seeing Dovin Baan played more, playing him (or Chandra, which is coming up!) will actually get you wins faster than playing an SOI deck.

octal9 wrote:

Edit:
Are you aware of the current hexproof issue? We cannot target our own hexproof creatures.

Yes. It was a decision we made due to the way we word and work with the mechanic (Hexproof makes a creature immune to the word "Target" in cards) so it becomes normal that you cannot target your own creatures that have Hexproof. It's also a balancing act on Hexproof as it is very strong, so the downside to it is that you also cannot target your own creatures.

That was the decision we made about it, but we may revert the change if we feel it affects the game too strongly.

Morphis

Interesting change on hexproof I did not think it could be intentional...

Wouldn't be better to rename it veil so it is more intuitive for magic players coming here?

Hibernum_JC

Morphis wrote:

Interesting change on hexproof I did not think it could be intentional...

Wouldn't be better to rename it veil so it is more intuitive for magic players coming here?

The problem is Veil is an outdated MTG mechanic that is no longer in use, while Hexproof is, but there might be a problem with the wording on the popup that makes it misleading, so I'll look into that.

murtagon

With the Hexproof changes was it also intentional to prevent you from replacing hexproof creatures with ones cast from your hand?

example:

I have Rattlechains and two other Sprits on the board. When I try to cast another creature I cannot due the hexproof creatures not being selectable for exile.

or perhaps stated more clearly

If I have three hexproof creatures out then I will not be able to cast any other creatures until one of those three is removed from the board by some other mechanism.

Ohboy

Hibernum_JC wrote:

Morphis wrote:

I'll try again: any chance the game gets an overhaul on the rule engine?

Previous experience with the game leads me to believe some things were not preemptively considered, like difference needed between cast and summon has recently shown or the good old "stolen creatures triggering etb effects"

Is by any chance a redesign under development or even discussed?

It's something we are looking into. No promises or ETAs, but we are looking into it. There's quite a few things I'm dissatisfied about regarding action ordering/turn sequence that I'd like to see changed (for the better, I hope!) but it's a complicated affair. For example, I'm not a huge fan of how we are currently handling creature deaths in combat when abilities are concerned, and we have some under the hood issues with card targeting and casting that I would *REALLY* like to see reworked.

And FYI, the "stolen creatures triggering etb effects" is something that I believe is fixed and will be coming in a future update. There's a reason it was in - our previous engineer explained to me at the time that it was somewhat necessary due to how we were generating activated abilities. A long time ago, we had a pretty major bug with activated abilities that would remain in play with the wrong owner when taking control or returning control and the solution to that was to trigger etb effects. Through our various code reworks, this issue was eventually fixed but the etb is still being triggered when it no longer needs to be, so I *think* that our current engineer warrior has fixed it (the fix will be in a future update as it still needs testing).

I'm happy to see though that in general, the Kaladesh set is relatively bug-free (in terms of cards and effects, not other types of bugs that can crop up!). I'm a bit saddened that you guys don't seem to be enjoying the energy mechanic (at least I haven't seen many positive posts about it) as it was something I rather liked during the development process. I love the flexibility it gives to cards with Overload, and the new Planeswalkers are actually very strong and designed to be able to work by themselves: Dovin Baan works quite well by himself, and doesn't even need Overload cards to be effective, but just benefits more from them. He has enough energy generation to be self-sufficient (I made sure to design him that way - his first and second abilities generate a lot of energy!) and to make sure his third ability procs often. Maybe it's something we should have made a bit clearer when we released him.

I actually quite like the energized mechanic. I'm just not enjoying it because none of the cards that help cement the mechanic are actually available to me yet.

Mainloop25

They energy mechanic is very cool, my current Kiora and Garruk decks are making good use of it.

Quick Battle prizes are still broken. I received an SOI booster instead of an Origins booster this round. It is not a "visual display error" as support claims. We are getting the wrong packs!

murtagon

Ohboy wrote:

I actually quite like the energized mechanic. I'm just not enjoying it because none of the cards that help cement the mechanic are actually available to me yet.

I like the energize mechanic as well. Comparing set mechanics I think it is the best one so far, however as a mechanic I would rate Energize as okay. The "fatal" flaw to the energize mechanic is you need to go all in to really use it - ie it is a linear mechanic and pushes you hard to dedicating a significant portion of your deck to really use them effectively. Currently cards that use energy effective enough to justify using the card is fairly limited. At this point my primary use of Energy is really to just lock up the board to either protect my supports or restrict gems that can be color changed or restrict gems that can have a support cast on them. The Overload cards are pretty underwhelming right now and it takes a while to setup an energy deck so you need defenses to protect you from any real competitive deck, especially in the Platinum tier. But as a mechanic to play against Story quests it can be fun.

As it stands most of the available OL abilities are pretty weak. My personal preference is to us the Mana and Draw OL:1 cards. Overload:3 are very difficult to get and really quite underwhelming especially when you consider how much of the deck you have to focus on energy creation to have a chance of making OL:3. When looking at cards OL:3 can just be ignored as an ability it is more likely the card will be destroyed before the OL:3 will trigger. OL:2 are more consistent so you can expect it to go off a few times. OL:1 are dependable.

OL really only shows value if you have several OL cards in play so a single energy pop triggers multiple OL effects. We just do not have many OL effects currently available that have the power to compete with any serious platinum decks.

Really the best Energy card is Saheeli's Artistry you throw that in a harness deck and your creatures will get huge in a hurry. The worst part of energy is the effect on the nodes. It is much better now but I have color sensitivity issues and the energy effect still makes it difficult to see the colors. Visually I admit I like the effect but it does make the game harder to play. This latest update was a huge win to my eye strain though...the black background for the gems really helped. THANK YOU.

Volrak

Mainloop25 wrote:

I received an SOI booster instead of an Origins booster this round. It is not a "visual display error" as support claims. We are getting the wrong packs!

The claim appears to be that the packs we received are the intended rewards, making the packs listed as prizes a "visual display error". But however it's framed it's still a negative and unexpected experience for players.