If I were new, I'd quit.

bk1234

A level 42 Nissa gets 2 spells and 4 supports. That means it must have at least 4 creatures.

The green NOP objective is:

Green Node:
Optional Objective 1: Summon 5 or less creatures during a single fight.
Optional Objective 2: Summon 2 or less creatures during a single fight.

Yet a newer player has no choice (and let's just bear in mind many newer players don't have level 42 PW) but to load their deck up with creatures. This is pretty much the same for all the low level PW.


Let's just explore how we got to the "updated" event we are playing today:

1. The discussion started with a thread about how unfriendly the game was to newer players.

2. It evolved to a larger discussion about rewards, matchmaking and huge ties in the Platinum tier (see how we are already off topic).

3. This is the point where the decision makers remind me of my 9 year old. If I tell him 3 things, he only remembers the last -- so they added objectives to an event that EVERYONE loves just the way it is in order to try to break up ties in the top tier.

4. In-so-doing they made objectives that Bronze players couldn't get if they wanted to. I mean at least with the other events, it's slightly obtainable. Not this time -- not this one.

5. Thus the original conversation is moot and everyone who contributed was ignored.

So my conclusions are:

1. Per the plan to break up ties -- this is ridiculous because Platinum players are going to to get those objectives or die trying. Whoever thinks up these things obviously doesn't understand how much we like this game.

2. Hibernum has decided they have enough money and don't need to build or retain a new player base.

Abenjes

why do we need the same objectives for all tiers?
Can we not have different objectives for the tiers?
Harder more convoluted for platinum
Easier for bronze

wereotter

I agree, that green objective is ridiculous, as are many this time around. It basically forces you to play with Arlinn, just in case, and good luck if you don't have her.

I'll also expand that the blue objective to take 10 or less damage is pretty insane too. My one match so far against an Ob Nixilis deck he casts Oath of Liliana on turn one and reinforced it on turn three guaranteeing that I would not be able to meet the objective. There was no way I could power up enough removal spells for the zombie it put out every turn, try to get out Mockery of Nature to (hopefully) destroy the support, and then still finish the match all without taking 11 damage.

Back on the other topic, was paired against Liliana for my green node, and no sooner did I reinforce the one creature I had on the board the whole time did she cast Unholy Hunger and kill it, meaning there was no possible way at that point to get the objective, and I think that extends to the white node as well. If I'm going against a deck that runs a lot of kill spells, Sorin decks often are guilty of this, then how do I make sure he doesn't kill a third creature? These objectives are more about luck than skill.

Ampmp11

I think the best thing to do is to stop thinking you're a new player. You're not going to get a perfect score as a new player. And really you shouldn't get perfect scores in bronze either, this would really mess up coalitions (*ahem exploit that won't be mentioned) and the reward system. Otherwise we should all just start over and dominate bronze to get perfect scores against low level and actual newbies.

And if you have a burning desire to get a perfect score well guess what you can level up and progress (like you're supposed to do in games) and you'll get there and meet all the wonderful people in platinum that get them all the time.

bk1234

Ampmp11 wrote:

I think the best thing to do is to stop thinking you're a new player. You're not going to get a perfect score as a new player. And really you shouldn't get perfect scores in bronze either, this would really mess up coalitions (*ahem exploit that won't be mentioned) and the reward system. Otherwise we should all just start over and dominate bronze to get perfect scores against low level and actual newbies.

And if you have a burning desire to get a perfect score well guess what you can level up and progress (like you're supposed to do in games) and you'll get there and meet all the wonderful people in platinum that get them all the time.

My POV comes from working with a lot of newer players in the development coalitions.

I think when you're starting a game, feeling that you can be successful is a key retention factor. Either /or objectives with the easier having a lower points value would have been nice.

I'm a fan of either / or objectives.

If I were being self reflective: I would probably admit that I'm just mad that they added objectives to the most fun event; thus this entire post is moot.

However, I'm so mad about so many things with this game right now that self reflection has gone out the window.

Ampmp11

bken1234 wrote:

Ampmp11 wrote:

I think the best thing to do is to stop thinking you're a new player. You're not going to get a perfect score as a new player. And really you shouldn't get perfect scores in bronze either, this would really mess up coalitions (*ahem exploit that won't be mentioned) and the reward system. Otherwise we should all just start over and dominate bronze to get perfect scores against low level and actual newbies.

And if you have a burning desire to get a perfect score well guess what you can level up and progress (like you're supposed to do in games) and you'll get there and meet all the wonderful people in platinum that get them all the time.

My POV comes from working with a lot of newer players in the development coalitions.

I think when you're starting a game, feeling that you can be successful is a key retention factor. Either /or objectives with the easier having a lower points value would have been nice.

I'm a fan of either / or objectives.

If I were being self reflective, however, I would probably admit that I'm just mad that they added objectives to the most fun event; thus this entire post is moot.

However, I'm so mad about so many things with this game right now that self reflection has gone out the window.

I know you're doing a lot of good things for the community and with some of the development feeders. So I do know that it's coming from a good place.

I do agree that having success with something is a good reinforcement tool but as you said in another thread newbie's can very easily get about 85% of the maximum score. Them missing a point here or there isn't going to stop them from playing the game. It just means they need to unlock something in the game.

I agree the objectives for nop is a dramatic change especially since the p is for power, but the next holiday showdown supposedly doesn't have any objectives other than destroy so at least they replaced the original nop with something similar.

I agree there are a lot of things wrong with the game currently and d3 is throwing a lot of **** on the wall and trying to find out what sticks. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt because things are constantly changing. But I've spent a lot on this game already and feeling unvalued and disheartened with where the game is headed.

People are getting fed up with spending money while catering to casual players.

wereotter

bken1234 wrote:

Ampmp11 wrote:

I think the best thing to do is to stop thinking you're a new player. You're not going to get a perfect score as a new player. And really you shouldn't get perfect scores in bronze either, this would really mess up coalitions (*ahem exploit that won't be mentioned) and the reward system. Otherwise we should all just start over and dominate bronze to get perfect scores against low level and actual newbies.

And if you have a burning desire to get a perfect score well guess what you can level up and progress (like you're supposed to do in games) and you'll get there and meet all the wonderful people in platinum that get them all the time.

My POV comes from working with a lot of newer players in the development coalitions.

I think when you're starting a game, feeling that you can be successful is a key retention factor. Either /or objectives with the easier having a lower points value would have been nice.

I'm a fan of either / or objectives.

If I were being self reflective: I would probably admit that I'm just mad that they added objectives to the most fun event; thus this entire post is moot.

However, I'm so mad about so many things with this game right now that self reflection has gone out the window.

If I understand right, either/or objectives would be a better way to run the events. So like the green node this time awards 2 bonus ribbons for summoning 2 or less creatures or 1 bonus ribbon for summoning 5 or more creatures. Make it impossible to get 100% of the ribbons on every fight, but make it possible to get some bonus if you run into bad luck regarding who your opponent is.

Chavez303

Between the new <24 hour events, and horrible timers, I dont see a point to this game any longer.

I was fine with the event schedule being what it was. People that wanted to play could grind away on QB. I hold no illusions that i'm going to end up in the top 10, hell even the top 150...i just like to play. But with the clear imbalance in deck pairings and **** event running, i'm seriously contemplating quitting....

Give me a reason why i should stick around when the game, honestly, isn't fun anymore. Its beginning to feel like a job. I've got one of those already.

Nitymp

Don't forget the fact that the "optional" objectives are actually mandatory if you want to make progression...

madwren

You can't have it both ways.

1. New players just need to work hard, build their collections, and progress!
2. It's ok that we have objectives that stop them from building their collections and progressing no matter how hard they work!

Those are two diametrically opposed concepts. There is absolutely no value in making lower tiers compete for the same objectives as higher tiers for drastically reduced rewards. It's ridiculously punitive.

bk1234

madwren wrote:

You can't have it both ways.

1. New players just need to work hard, build their collections, and progress!
2. It's ok that we have objectives that stop them from building their collections and progressing no matter how hard they work!

Those are two diametrically opposed concepts. There is absolutely no value in making lower tiers compete for the same objectives as higher tiers for drastically reduced rewards. It's ridiculously punitive.

Not to mention the reduced the rewards at lower tiers so it isn't even close to a level playing field.

madwren

bken1234 wrote:

madwren wrote:

You can't have it both ways.

1. New players just need to work hard, build their collections, and progress!
2. It's ok that we have objectives that stop them from building their collections and progressing no matter how hard they work!

Those are two diametrically opposed concepts. There is absolutely no value in making lower tiers compete for the same objectives as higher tiers for drastically reduced rewards. It's ridiculously punitive.

Not to mention the reduced the rewards at lower tiers so it isn't even close to a level playing field.

Right, that's what I meant by drastically reduced rewards. They have to beat the same extremely challenging objectives, but not only are they less able to accomplish that, but receive a much lower return for doing so.

bk1234

madwren wrote:

Right, that's what I meant by drastically reduced rewards. They have to beat the same extremely challenging objectives, but not only are they less able to accomplish that, but receive a much lower return for doing so.

Sorry, I thought you were referencing the fact that they can't make profession.

Steeme

When I was fairly new, the Oath of the Gatewatch event was released. I believe my best planeswalker was Kiora at around level 42. I could not finish the event.

The first time the event ran, I didn't even realize I could skip to the second chapter without completing the first chapter. The second time through, I skipped the last one or two encounters on both chapters. That was all I could achieve at the time.

You know what I felt after that? I didn't want to quit. I wanted to get better. It gave me a reason to level up planeswalkers. I immediately leveled up basic Gideon and Nissa all the way up to 60 so that by the time the next event ran I would have a chance. Then I brought Kiora up to the 50's (gets expensive after that). Then I leveled up other plansewalkers for versatility and variety. While I was doing this I collected more cards and improved both my gameplay and deckbuilding.

If you're a new player, and you hit a brick wall, there are two things you can do: 1) Get better or 2) Quit. If they choose option number 2), then I guarantee you their heart is not in this game and their time is better spent do something else anyways.

Missing objectives in an NoP? So what. I have a gigantic library of cards, numerous planeswalkers at level 60, etc. I still miss objectives. Yet I'm able to make the basic progression every time (barring the two Avacyn type events where the boss health was too low). If I were a new player, I would be ecstatic to win the basic progression as it awards a constant stream of free packs and crystals.

Mainloop25

Steeme wrote:

When I was fairly new, the Oath of the Gatewatch event was released. I believe my best planeswalker was Kiora at around level 42. I could not finish the event.

The first time the event ran, I didn't even realize I could skip to the second chapter without completing the first chapter. The second time through, I skipped the last one or two encounters on both chapters. That was all I could achieve at the time.

You know what I felt after that? I didn't want to quit. I wanted to get better. It gave me a reason to level up planeswalkers. I immediately leveled up basic Gideon and Nissa all the way up to 60 so that by the time the next event ran I would have a chance. Then I brought Kiora up to the 50's (gets expensive after that). Then I leveled up other plansewalkers for versatility and variety. While I was doing this I collected more cards and improved both my gameplay and deckbuilding.

If you're a new player, and you hit a brick wall, there are two things you can do: 1) Get better or 2) Quit. If they choose option number 2), then I guarantee you their heart is not in this game and their time is better spent do something else anyways.

Missing objectives in an NoP? So what. I have a gigantic library of cards, numerous planeswalkers at level 60, etc. I still miss objectives. Yet I'm able to make the basic progression every time (barring the two Avacyn type events where the boss health was too low). If I were a new player, I would be ecstatic to win the basic progression as it awards a constant stream of free packs and crystals.

I had almost the identical experience.

Were there as many bugs back then as there are now? That would be much more likely to make me quit than the learning curve.

bk1234

Steeme wrote:

When I was fairly new, the Oath of the Gatewatch event was released. I believe my best planeswalker was Kiora at around level 42. I could not finish the event.

The first time the event ran, I didn't even realize I could skip to the second chapter without completing the first chapter. The second time through, I skipped the last one or two encounters on both chapters. That was all I could achieve at the time.

You know what I felt after that? I didn't want to quit. I wanted to get better. It gave me a reason to level up planeswalkers. I immediately leveled up basic Gideon and Nissa all the way up to 60 so that by the time the next event ran I would have a chance. Then I brought Kiora up to the 50's (gets expensive after that). Then I leveled up other plansewalkers for versatility and variety. While I was doing this I collected more cards and improved both my gameplay and deckbuilding.

If you're a new player, and you hit a brick wall, there are two things you can do: 1) Get better or 2) Quit. If they choose option number 2), then I guarantee you their heart is not in this game and their time is better spent do something else anyways.

Missing objectives in an NoP? So what. I have a gigantic library of cards, numerous planeswalkers at level 60, etc. I still miss objectives. Yet I'm able to make the basic progression every time (barring the two Avacyn type events where the boss health was too low). If I were a new player, I would be ecstatic to win the basic progression as it awards a constant stream of free packs and crystals.

You're comparing apples to oranges.

At least you could TRY in the gate watch event. PVE is designed to challenge various skill levels. I have no delusions that I will beat a PVE event with my alt for a LONG time. Also I'd like to note that Oath carried either /or objectives, as did Avacyn.

But PVP you are matched against decks at your level. If you build a good deck and play well, winning is a reasonable assumption.

If you don't have certain cards, not getting a bonus is a reasonable assumption.

BUT some of these bonuses are in direct conflict with the parameters of low level PW -- that isn't reasonable -- one can't even TRY.

Steeme

bken1234 wrote:

BUT some of these bonuses are in direct conflict with the parameters of low level PW -- that isn't reasonable -- one can't even TRY.

I don't understand why you think new players are stuck on the bonus objectives. If you win 13 of your 15 matches with no objectives, you get 65 points and thus complete the personal progression.

There are only three uses for objectives:
1) To compete for the top of the leaderboard
2) To add insurance to your score in case you lose or fail to complete more than 2 matches
3) For an extra challenge to keep it interesting

None of the above are roadblocks for new players. They are hurdles that can be overcome.

bk1234

Steeme wrote:

bken1234 wrote:

BUT some of these bonuses are in direct conflict with the parameters of low level PW -- that isn't reasonable -- one can't even TRY.

I don't understand why you think new players are stuck on the bonus objectives. If you win 13 of your 15 matches with no objectives, you get 65 points and thus complete the personal progression.

There are only three uses for objectives:
1) To compete for the top of the leaderboard
2) To add insurance to your score in case you lose or fail to complete more than 2 matches
3) For an extra challenge to keep it interesting

None of the above are roadblocks for new players. They are hurdles that can be overcome.

The answer is your own #3. Maybe as a newer player, mediocrity was acceptable for you, but some people would at least like to try.

blacklotus

Steeme wrote:

bken1234 wrote:

BUT some of these bonuses are in direct conflict with the parameters of low level PW -- that isn't reasonable -- one can't even TRY.

I don't understand why you think new players are stuck on the bonus objectives. If you win 13 of your 15 matches with no objectives, you get 65 points and thus complete the personal progression.

There are only three uses for objectives:
1) To compete for the top of the leaderboard
2) To add insurance to your score in case you lose or fail to complete more than 2 matches
3) For an extra challenge to keep it interesting

None of the above are roadblocks for new players. They are hurdles that can be overcome.

Your Maths is wrong. 13 Wins at 4 Pts for a win = 52 pts total. You don't get to complete the personal progression.

Nitymp

To add: 15 wins = 60 points. So these aren't really "optional" objectives if you want to make progression, are they now?

hawkyh1

I think it should be 60 points for max progression based on 4 points x 15 wins.
(you need to win all or improve if you want that prize) alternatively if you have
the cards/deck to bag you some bonus points and are skilled enough to do it
consistently, then the odd kiora encounter won't ruin your chances.

or at least go easy on the personal progression whilst the support bug gets
fixed.(this bug is much harder on newer players who need to regularly
check what each support does)

HH