I only see two options for 7 day PVEs

Stax the Foyer

Polares wrote:

Split them in two events, one 4-day and one 3-day, and of course give rewards for each one of them.

It is that easy, really simple and perfect fix.

Agreed, I've been suggesting this for a while as well.

The other significant benefit of this solution is that it keeps the character rewards cycling at a faster rate. With the number of characters that we have now, this means that rewards come back around faster, which is helpful to everyone and potentially critical to transitioners who don't yet have all 13 covers for certain characters.

The Bob The

There are differences in 7-day rewards - more work for same progression, but far more token opportunities - that I really don't have a problem with. The most valid repeated concern (to my mind) is the point about missing a day. Unless you're hitting everything 6/6, having to shortchange a day late in the run can murder your chances at progression, let alone placement, so it seems (data please?) that this is a greater factor in a 7-day than in shorter events.

With that in mind, how could things be adjusted? One possibility might be to even out the points per day. You can make up a bumbled day two on a 3- or 4-day event, but the high ramping in the back half of a 7-day makes that notably harder (again, please disprove me with data - I know nothing). So maybe on a 7-day, the points possible still increase each day but by a lower amount. This way, if you know day 5 isn't gonna be do-able, you can double-down on day 1 (and/or 2) and have those points actually make a more meaningful contribution than the pittance they currently provide.

Dimh

I voted Other.

I want 7 day events abolished, they are ridiculous grinds that I am quite tired of.

Barring that, lets at *least* double the rewards.

Omega Red

This will be an unpopular opinion but whatever, here goes:

I like the change of pace 7 day PVE provides. I wouldn't like a fixed lenght (whether that number is 3 days or 7) for all events. What would you rather play, a week-long Prodigal son or Brotherhood + Venom heroic? Each run of week long event is one less re-run of shorter, older, duller events.

Also, take a look at the latest popular character releases, Gwenpool and Medusa. Difference between top-ten and top fifty was around 300 points. That's too close. You had to play perfect, no margin of error. Three day events are sprints. Seven day events are marathons. I would prefer it if character releases were done on seven day events just to ensure wider, more substantial separation. Reward consistency instead of punishing for clearing a node one minute too late. I don't want to play only sprints. Every now and then I like playing marathons too.

Finally, hating on seven day events just because they offer less rewards is a little petty. Do you really prefer a double dose of dark avengers events over prodigal son just because you get an extra set of covers? Are you here only for the loot? I like prodigal, I like enemy of the state (Hulk event sucks though) because they offer a different flavour. I know a lot of guys here are desperate to accelerate their progression by any means available but really, if you do this only for the sheer amount of rewards then maybe you should play something you find more enjoyable. It's not all about the rewards.

Spiritclaw

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

carrion pigeons wrote:

Not every event needs to have the same output.

Could you ellaborate on this?
Why do you feel that way?

Carrion Pigeons is technically right -- the devs could decide that a given event shouldn't get any rewards at all. In a technical sense, it'd also be correct to say that no efforts need to be made to make the game better. Fortunately, we know from past behavior that the devs do want to keep making mpq a better game. They didn't have to create deadpool's daily quest, but they did... and it made the game better. The same can be said for Shield Rank, Clearance Levels, and any number of other improvements, however small. Heck, I even appreciate tiny things like removing the confirmation dialog box for switching around powers on championed characters.

Let's be less technical. It's not that there are only two (or three or four) options here. It's that people don't like a disproportionately low reward for a given level of effort. The fact that a 7 day, 4 day, or 3 day event all offer the same reward is a problem and offers an opportunity for the devs to improve the game. If we had a system where the points rewarded were more consistent (rather than being adjusted for the duration of the event) then there could be a couple more extra progression rewards for a 4 day compared to a 3 day, and a bunch more for a 7 day. Something might even be done for rank rewards.

It'd make the game better.

alphabeta

Dimh wrote:

I voted Other.

I want 7 day events abolished, they are ridiculous grinds that I am quite tired of.

Barring that, lets at *least* double the rewards.

So you can grind a 3 and 4 day event in the same time period? Unless you skip one out of every two events this post makes no sense?

Tromb2ch2

I'd like to see all 7 day events turned into gauntlet type events (placement rolled over into progreasion). Trying to get t10 in a 7 day is nerve racking even though you just grind like any other event.

Saeva

alphabeta wrote:

Dimh wrote:

I voted Other.

I want 7 day events abolished, they are ridiculous grinds that I am quite tired of.

Barring that, lets at *least* double the rewards.

So you can grind a 3 and 4 day event in the same time period? Unless you skip one out of every two events this post makes no sense?

Different poster, but I think it's a reasonable position. There's a difference between having to be "on" for 3 or 4 days in a row and not being able to miss an entire week, in terms of grinding, if you want to make placement.

Abolishing 7 day events would allow people to skip shorter periods (3 or 4 days) if they want to pass on an event, which is short enough to keep them from falling out of the habit of playing, and to take less risk versus reward in terms of trying to place well versus real life events getting in the way.

It's better for the players and the devs.

archmag

I don't see why all events should give the same reward. There are many people who take a rest during 7-days events, so doubling rewards would make them grind more and I don't think they will feel happier because of this, they will just burn out faster. Personally I believe that 7-days events have normal rewards and enjoy playing for double rewards during 3/4-day events. Making them equal will remove this enjoyment and just flatten the game, so I voted for leaving the reward the same.

Bowgentle

Just treat PVE as a 24/7/365 event which gives out 7K ISO, 2 CP and 90 XP daily, with extra rewards sprinkled in at various intervals.

I don't get how skipping longer events is more feasible than skipping shorter events - if you need a break from PVE, just take one.
You'll miss out on the same daily rewards, and maybe a few covers which don't matter in the long run.

Polares

Stax the Foyer wrote:

Polares wrote:

Split them in two events, one 4-day and one 3-day, and of course give rewards for each one of them.

It is that easy, really simple and perfect fix.

Agreed, I've been suggesting this for a while as well.

The other significant benefit of this solution is that it keeps the character rewards cycling at a faster rate. With the number of characters that we have now, this means that rewards come back around faster, which is helpful to everyone and potentially critical to transitioners who don't yet have all 13 covers for certain characters.

Yeah it is all advantages! Seriously, very simple coding and everybody would be happy!

Going forward they can even do what they did for GR/Chulk storyline with Mefisto and have a cliffhanger between part I and part II, who doesn't like cliffhangers?

WEBGAS

Soon after Venom Bomb there will be The Hulk.....another 7 days ****....

This Pve could be easily splitted in two: the first part with Hulk as enemy and the second part when he joins the heroes-party ...why don't do this?

Dragon_Nexus

Omega Red wrote:

This will be an unpopular opinion but whatever, here goes:

I like the change of pace 7 day PVE provides. I wouldn't like a fixed lenght (whether that number is 3 days or 7) for all events. What would you rather play, a week-long Prodigal son or Brotherhood + Venom heroic? Each run of week long event is one less re-run of shorter, older, duller events.

Also, take a look at the latest popular character releases, Gwenpool and Medusa. Difference between top-ten and top fifty was around 300 points. That's too close. You had to play perfect, no margin of error. Three day events are sprints. Seven day events are marathons. I would prefer it if character releases were done on seven day events just to ensure wider, more substantial separation. Reward consistency instead of punishing for clearing a node one minute too late. I don't want to play only sprints. Every now and then I like playing marathons too.

Finally, hating on seven day events just because they offer less rewards is a little petty. Do you really prefer a double dose of dark avengers events over prodigal son just because you get an extra set of covers? Are you here only for the loot? I like prodigal, I like enemy of the state (Hulk event sucks though) because they offer a different flavour. I know a lot of guys here are desperate to accelerate their progression by any means available but really, if you do this only for the sheer amount of rewards then maybe you should play something you find more enjoyable. It's not all about the rewards.

First paragraph: That's besides the point entirely. You're arguing which events are more fun than others, which isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about the reward structure. Yes, Prodigal Sun is one of my preferred events but that's because it offers some variety. Has nothing to do with its length. I like the Deadpool event too, again for variety, but if that was stretched out to 7 days my point about needing to be better compensated for it would still stand.

Second paragraph: Granted, the points are very close, but again that has nothing to do with progressional rewards. Personally, I prefer new releases to happen in short events. Nothing like having to play perfectly for 7 days in a row to get a single new 4* cover...or accidentally miss a grind due to real life and then whoops there goes even one cover...7 days wasted. At least if it's a 3 day event it's over quickly and if you lost out you didn't waste an entire week's work.

Third paragraph: Why petty? And again, you're arguing event quality versus progressional reward. Would I play double dark avengers over prodigal sun for more covers? Yes. Yes I would, because it also means double ISO, double the HP, and I'd finish that week with 50CP and not 25CP. It would depend on the boosted roster, of course, if it was 4*s I didn't have I'd skip it...but then I'd likely skip Prodigal Sun too. And if it's not all about the rewards for you then why do you care that we want to increase those rewards? Actually if it's not all about the rewards, why were you in your previous paragraph complaining that it was too difficult to get a new 4* in their debut event? You can't have it both ways, dude.

The point of this whole thing is...a 7 day event offers precisely half the rewards in progression than a 3-day and 4-day event run back to back would. The only benefit is more tokens for the vault if you play well enough and that just ends up with your reward boiling down to luck, not work.

Dragon_Nexus

archmag wrote:

I don't see why all events should give the same reward. There are many people who take a rest during 7-days events, so doubling rewards would make them grind more and I don't think they will feel happier because of this, they will just burn out faster. Personally I believe that 7-days events have normal rewards and enjoy playing for double rewards during 3/4-day events. Making them equal will remove this enjoyment and just flatten the game, so I voted for leaving the reward the same.

I don't agree with this argument at all.
First off, why do they take a break on a 7-day event? I imagine one of the reasons is "Because I put in the same ammount of effort and get half the reward". That won't be the only reason, sure, but it'll feature in the list, I'll bet.
Secondly, nothing's forcing you to play a 7-day event if you don't want to. Hell, nothing forces you to play a 3 day event if you don't enjoy them. I know a lot of us will skip a 4-day Heroic despite the rewards being higher than a good 7-day event. That's down to the individual player. Refusing to improve something because a portion of the player base would miss out is an odd suggestion to me. You could still skip those events if you felt so inclined, while those of us who actually play them won't feel short changed by having done so.

How would increasing the progression rewards to match the equivilent 3-day plus 4-day event flatten this game and remove enjoyment?

If I go into a 3-day event and then a 4 day event and put in 100 points of effort and get out 50 points of reward from the first and 50 points of reward for the second, why should a 7-day event require me to put in the same 100 points of work and only give me 50 points of reward at the end? Surely it should give me 100 points of reward, yes?

Omega Red

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

Omega Red wrote:

This will be an unpopular opinion but whatever, here goes:

I like the change of pace 7 day PVE provides. I wouldn't like a fixed lenght (whether that number is 3 days or 7) for all events. What would you rather play, a week-long Prodigal son or Brotherhood + Venom heroic? Each run of week long event is one less re-run of shorter, older, duller events.

Also, take a look at the latest popular character releases, Gwenpool and Medusa. Difference between top-ten and top fifty was around 300 points. That's too close. You had to play perfect, no margin of error. Three day events are sprints. Seven day events are marathons. I would prefer it if character releases were done on seven day events just to ensure wider, more substantial separation. Reward consistency instead of punishing for clearing a node one minute too late. I don't want to play only sprints. Every now and then I like playing marathons too.

Finally, hating on seven day events just because they offer less rewards is a little petty. Do you really prefer a double dose of dark avengers events over prodigal son just because you get an extra set of covers? Are you here only for the loot? I like prodigal, I like enemy of the state (Hulk event sucks though) because they offer a different flavour. I know a lot of guys here are desperate to accelerate their progression by any means available but really, if you do this only for the sheer amount of rewards then maybe you should play something you find more enjoyable. It's not all about the rewards.

First paragraph: That's besides the point entirely. You're arguing which events are more fun than others, which isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about the reward structure. Yes, Prodigal Sun is one of my preferred events but that's because it offers some variety. Has nothing to do with its length. I like the Deadpool event too, again for variety, but if that was stretched out to 7 days my point about needing to be better compensated for it would still stand.

Second paragraph: Granted, the points are very close, but again that has nothing to do with progressional rewards. Personally, I prefer new releases to happen in short events. Nothing like having to play perfectly for 7 days in a row to get a single new 4* cover...or accidentally miss a grind due to real life and then whoops there goes even one cover...7 days wasted. At least if it's a 3 day event it's over quickly and if you lost out you didn't waste an entire week's work.

Third paragraph: Why petty? And again, you're arguing event quality versus progressional reward. Would I play double dark avengers over prodigal sun for more covers? Yes. Yes I would, because it also means double ISO, double the HP, and I'd finish that week with 50CP and not 25CP. It would depend on the boosted roster, of course, if it was 4*s I didn't have I'd skip it...but then I'd likely skip Prodigal Sun too. And if it's not all about the rewards for you then why do you care that we want to increase those rewards? Actually if it's not all about the rewards, why were you in your previous paragraph complaining that it was too difficult to get a new 4* in their debut event? You can't have it both ways, dude.

The point of this whole thing is...a 7 day event offers precisely half the rewards in progression than a 3-day and 4-day event run back to back would. The only benefit is more tokens for the vault if you play well enough and that just ends up with your reward boiling down to luck, not work.

I bring the point of event quality because for me that's important and determines whether I play or not. They could run heroics with five stars as rewards and you wouldn't see me play hard for them. I just dislike those events that much. Boss battles on the other hand you'll see me always going hard regardless of rewards because I enjoy playing them and helping alliance mates.

You can see this as seven day events giving half or as short events giving double. Glass half full or glass half empty. Yes, some events are more generous than others. For me that's irrelevant because I don't feel obligated to play every event in every format so I can maximize my reward income. This is not a job for me and I don't judge rewards in terms of "compensation" and "work" as you do.

Progression rewards are incentives to play. Placement rewards are incentives to play competitively. INCENTIVES, not currency. While you can measure the value of a given cover in terms of the time and effort it takes to earn, it's not a fixed value and there's no reason why it should be normalized. You are not entitled to 25 hp every X days just because most of events are short and give you that regularly.

I want more rewards as much as anyone but not at the expense of losing or redesigning long events which I appreciate for flavour, change of pace and the chance they provide shorter events to take a break and remain fresh.

DaveR4470

Other: get rid of them entirely.

Dragon_Nexus

Omega Red wrote:

I bring the point of event quality because for me that's important and determines whether I play or not. They could run heroics with five stars as rewards and you wouldn't see me play hard for them. I just dislike those events that much. Boss battles on the other hand you'll see me always going hard regardless of rewards because I enjoy playing them and helping alliance mates.

You can see this as seven day events giving half or as short events giving double. Glass half full or glass half empty. Yes, some events are more generous than others. For me that's irrelevant because I don't feel obligated to play every event in every format so I can maximize my reward income. This is not a job for me and I don't judge rewards in terms of "compensation" and "work" as you do.

Progression rewards are incentives to play. Placement rewards are incentives to play competitively. INCENTIVES, not currency. While you can measure the value of a given cover in terms of the time and effort it takes to earn, it's not a fixed value and there's no reason why it should be normalized. You are not entitled to 25 hp every X days just because most of events are short and give you that regularly.

I want more rewards as much as anyone but not at the expense of losing or redesigning long events which I appreciate for flavour, change of pace and the chance they provide shorter events to take a break and remain fresh.

It feels like again you're misunderstanding the thrust of the argument.
You're debating about the individual worth of certain events. It's a personal argument that you play what you want to play. And that's great! You do you and all that, if that's how you get your enjoyment from the game, then more power to you. However, that's an argument that's not fully representitive of the debate at hand.

I don't play every PvE either. And yeah, if they added a 5* reward to heroics I'd be very tempted to play them more often. But, again, your argument is less about a fair effort:reward ratio and more about "Some events just aren't fun". And that's a point I agree on, some events could be changed to make them more enjoyable, especially the heavilly Dark Avengers laden ones.

The fact that you openly say the idea of effort:reward is irrelevent to you means you're not fully a part of the main argument. I'm aware how patronising that sounds, but my point isn't "Little boy, go home", so I hope you don't think that's what I mean. You raise an important point that some events aren't fun, but that's a point for another thread because it's not what we're wanting changed in *this* thread.

As for the entitlement argument, I'd ask why not? You've yet to address my key issue which is why getting precisely half the rewards from a 7-day event compared to two PvE events run in the same time is a fair and acceptable way to play? You say you like Prodigal Sun. Me too. But wouldn't it be better to play that event and get more out of it? This isn't an entitlement issue, it's an effort:reward relabancing issue.

I want more rewards as much as anyone but not at the expense of losing or redesigning long events which I appreciate for flavour, change of pace and the chance they provide shorter events to take a break and remain fresh.

This bit confuses me though. Who said anything about *changing* the event? No-one here is saying that when the rewwards are double they should also change how the event is played. No-one here is saying "It's a 7-day event, ergo we should have to clear each node 12 times instead of 6!" or anything like that. We're simply saying we should have an equalised reward compared to the shorter events. Some people are saying ditch 7-day events all together and I wholly disagree with that. I wonder if these people were around when they squished Hulk into a 4 day time frame with each sub event completing within 12 hours. It was horrendous. I absolutely don't want that, I simply want the event to remain exactly as it is in structure and manner of play, but with a better progression structure to reflect the length of time put into such events.

TxMoose

MOAR STUFF!!!

archmag

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

I don't agree with this argument at all.

That's ok. It's just my opinion, I get that it won't be popular because I don't ask for extra reward and most people want extra reward for the same work.

First off, why do they take a break on a 7-day event? I imagine one of the reasons is "Because I put in the same ammount of effort and get half the reward". That won't be the only reason, sure, but it'll feature in the list, I'll bet.

Yes, because of lower reward. It's one of the criteria on how to separate event from others. Another one you mention later - it's Heroics. If all events reward the same it will be harder to choose which one to skip because then you will know that you are losing a lot. So it will lead to playing all events and eventual burn out.

Refusing to improve something because a portion of the player base would miss out is an odd suggestion to me. You could still skip those events if you felt so inclined, while those of us who actually play them won't feel short changed by having done so.

I am not refusing to improve, I don't want it to change based on your arguments. I don't see equalising rewards as improvement. You get more income, but the same can be acomplished by increasing reward everywhere. If your problem was difference in rewards there would be two solutions suggested: either increase reward for 7 days, or decrease reward for 3/4 days. I don't see you suggesting 2nd solution, so the problem is not in inequality, it's in low reward overall. So you just take this situation and suggest "let's increase reward" and support it by false argument "different reward is bad".

How would increasing the progression rewards to match the equivilent 3-day plus 4-day event flatten this game and remove enjoyment?

If I go into a 3-day event and then a 4 day event and put in 100 points of effort and get out 50 points of reward from the first and 50 points of reward for the second, why should a 7-day event require me to put in the same 100 points of work and only give me 50 points of reward at the end? Surely it should give me 100 points of reward, yes?

I get into 7 day event and get 100% reward. Then I get into 4 day event and get 150% reward for the same effort. I am happy. You look at 4days as norm, I look at 7days as norm. If all days reward 150%, then 150% becomes the new 100%. If all days reward 100% it is boring.

It's like with happiness. It's impossible to feel happy if you are always at the same enjoyment level. It just gets stale. To actually feel happy there should be ups and downs so that you can have comparison.

moss04

I voted other.
My suggestion is similar to increasing the progression rewards but not simply by doubling it.

They don't seem to run 7 day events too often. I haven't kept careful track, but it seems like it's 1 per month. As such, I think that in addition to providing more overall progression rewards (maybe double, maybe not), they should expand the rewards so that with the appropriate clearance level (perhaps the current max of 8, or perhaps along with 9 when it gets released), the progression would reward one 5* cover after the 15 CP reward (or whatever CP amount it gets bumped to).

I think that they need to start provding some way other than RNG to get 5* covers. 7 day events are a significant time investment, so providing something special to get players to comit would be a good draw/incentive, and it would only provide one 5* cover per month. Many of the players who are already spending significant time in the game to get all of the potential CP rewards (both pve and pvp), are already getting 5 covers at a faster rate than this, and there are now several 5* characters to spread this out on, so I don't think adding this would upset the apple cart.