Self Stealing Passives Need To Go.

MushroomGenius808

With Agent Venom and the new Blade released, we've seen a new mechanic, the Self-Steal Passive. I don't think anyone likes these, if you do, please speak up!

Lost a match today in Sim that was on the verge of cakewalk. My champed Thing, IM40, and Agent Venom (0/1/2) vs. 276 Iceman, 275 Switch, 275 Storm.

As usual, I set off IM40's yellow to build red/blue/green. I lost one of IM40's yellow countdown to an unlucky AI cascade at the top of the board, where the tile seemed safe. I then had to match enough greens to get to twelve. I'm all set to smash IceMan's face to the tune of 13k dmg (and crush Wanda with Thing's red), when (whoopsie!) Agent Venom swipes Thing's green AP. I find another green match to get it back, but Iceman then freezes Thing on the AI's turn.

So now... IM40 is self-stunned, Thing is sitting on a long countdown, and rubbish undercovered Agent Venom is there all by his lonesome. He goes down with a well timed Iceman green and IM40 is hurting.

Another match for the AI and IM40 awakens from his slumber. But of course, Wanda Reality Crushes him and lengthens the stun timer on Thing. I didn't see another move.

Fix this.

/rant.

Phumade

MushroomGenius808 wrote:

Lost a match today in Sim that was on the verge of cakewalk. My champed Thing, IM40, and Agent Venom (0/1/2) vs. 276 Iceman, 275 Switch, 275 Storm.

As usual, I set off IM40's yellow to build red/blue/green. I lost one of IM40's yellow countdown to an unlucky AI cascade at the top of the board, where the tile seemed safe. I then had to match enough greens to get to twelve. I'm all set to smash IceMan's face to the tune of 13k dmg (and crush Wanda with Thing's red), when (whoopsie!) Agent Venom swipes Thing's green AP. I find another green match to get it back, but Iceman then freezes Thing on the AI's turn.

/rant.

I think you just badly misplayed the match and picked teammates with bad synergy.

1. By definition Thing green requires 12ap.
2. By definition AV(black) Military Might with 1 black becomes alien weakness if you have 12 or more ap in any color.
3. By definition Alien weakness steals 2 ap from your highest ap pool (which was the 12 green)

So the minute you acquired the 12 ap to fire Thing, you guaranteed that Alien weakness was gonna steal the AP.

you probably need to substitute a different character for thing.

LT: Alien Weakness 0 AP
(PASSIVE) The Venom symbiote asserts its dominance, fighting with Flash for control. At the start of your turn, drains 2 AP from the highest friendly colored AP pool, destroys 3 random tiles and deals 222 damage to Venom. Destroyed tiles do not generate AP. If all friendly colored AP is below 12, this power becomes Military Might.
Level 2: Drain 2 AP from enemies highest AP pool, destroy 5 random tiles and deal 222 damage to Venom. If all friendly colored AP is below 13 this power becomes Military Might.

HaywireII

I applied my yellow Agent Venom covers and I'm holding the black ones in my queue until Simulator is over. 1 cover in black really isn't helping anyone.

vinsensual

Clearly this is your fault for not whaling agent venom so you'd have more black covers and a higher ap threshold to hold back the symbiote.

I hate the mechanic too but it fits venom thematically. My suggestion for Moder Blade was to turn bloodlust into an active that costs 1 red so you can choose to do the damage or save your red for another ability. Might as well do it to Agent Venom too bc it only introduces more feel bad moments in a game where rng more than covers that.

blargrx

HaywireII wrote:

I applied my yellow Agent Venom covers and I'm holding the black ones in my queue until Simulator is over. 1 cover in black really isn't helping anyone.

Yup doing the exact same. 1 cover isn't making a difference

JHawkInc

I think the REAL problem here is the difficulty of doing Simulator with an undercovered 4* for the essential node. Running the event immediately after a release is a little bit of a kick in the groin.

I mean, I enjoy Simulator, and events like it, or Gauntlet, or Deadpool vs the MPQ, that use a broader variety of characters to provide a different challenge, but making us take a **** undercovered 4* into one of those fights is the opposite of fun. At the very least, don't run them as the follow-up to a release so there's a better chance we'll have the required 4* well covered enough to make them useful. It'd be REAL nice if it were like a Join Forces node or PVP where we're given a mediocre version of the character in case the one we have is ****, so we could actually stand a chance on those nodes. (and maybe, getting more chances to play new characters will encourage people to spend to add that character to their roster; this game would sell more candy if it'd do a better job of giving us a taste of the new flavors, you know what I'm saying?)

Bowgentle

JHawkInc wrote:

(and maybe, getting more chances to play new characters will encourage people to spend to add that character to their roster; this game would sell more candy if it'd do a better job of giving us a taste of the new flavors, you know what I'm saying?)

I think after playing the loaner node in the main, nobody is going to buy Venom candy.

smkspy

HaywireII wrote:

I applied my yellow Agent Venom covers and I'm holding the black ones in my queue until Simulator is over. 1 cover in black really isn't helping anyone.

No it isn't, got my first cover from the progression so I was able to play through his second sub node...wow, he was a massive drain on my team especially when getting to the 3rd and 4th clears.

Got my 20th cp from it though and pulled my 5th thing cover since he was a progression reward. Seriously calling fowl on rng being random at this point. At least it was my much needed yellow 13th cover.

Now to scrounge up 212500 iso in 9 days...fun.

doomette

HaywireII wrote:

I applied my yellow Agent Venom covers and I'm holding the black ones in my queue until Simulator is over. 1 cover in black really isn't helping anyone.

I've got to say that Alien Weakness totally saved my bacon a couple of times by eliminating some would-be matches Moon Knight needed that I wouldn't have been able to get to. But yeah, that was more to do with luck than the ability itself.
Ugh, that node and the one before that. I really wish they'd make it a little easier on new, under-covered characters.

MushroomGenius808

Phumade wrote:

MushroomGenius808 wrote:

Lost a match today in Sim that was on the verge of cakewalk. My champed Thing, IM40, and Agent Venom (0/1/2) vs. 276 Iceman, 275 Switch, 275 Storm.

As usual, I set off IM40's yellow to build red/blue/green. I lost one of IM40's yellow countdown to an unlucky AI cascade at the top of the board, where the tile seemed safe. I then had to match enough greens to get to twelve. I'm all set to smash IceMan's face to the tune of 13k dmg (and crush Wanda with Thing's red), when (whoopsie!) Agent Venom swipes Thing's green AP. I find another green match to get it back, but Iceman then freezes Thing on the AI's turn.

/rant.

I think you just badly misplayed the match and picked teammates with bad synergy.

1. By definition Thing green requires 12ap.
2. By definition AV(black) Military Might with 1 black becomes alien weakness if you have 12 or more ap in any color.
3. By definition Alien weakness steals 2 ap from your highest ap pool (which was the 12 green)

So the minute you acquired the 12 ap to fire Thing, you guaranteed that Alien weakness was gonna steal the AP.

you probably need to substitute a different character for thing.

LT: Alien Weakness 0 AP
(PASSIVE) The Venom symbiote asserts its dominance, fighting with Flash for control. At the start of your turn, drains 2 AP from the highest friendly colored AP pool, destroys 3 random tiles and deals 222 damage to Venom. Destroyed tiles do not generate AP. If all friendly colored AP is below 12, this power becomes Military Might.
Level 2: Drain 2 AP from enemies highest AP pool, destroy 5 random tiles and deal 222 damage to Venom. If all friendly colored AP is below 13 this power becomes Military Might.

If I had a stable of champed & boosted 4s you may be correct. I ended up getting through it, but with more healthpack usage than I had hoped. The only other 4s that I have champed are 4hor, IMHB, Bucky, and Cho. Picking the champed 4, I felt, was the obvious choice, especially since he pretty much 1hit-KOs Iceman, Storm, and Switch. It was just bad luck, I had more than enough green if I hit all 3 recharges, but an unseen AI cascade wiped that out. My countdown tile was in the corner, but the AI dropped two horizontal yellows right next to it. Everything snowballed from there. I would have had 15 green AP and been sitting pretty even with AV's steal.

It's not bad synergy, it's just a bad beat.

dr tinykittylove

The trick to playing around Alien weakness is to pick up a little extra ap before firing recharge... even better if it's in blue or red, to protect your green (since Thing's red costs less to fire and can still go off if Venom steals red).

Personally I'm having enormous fun just throwing out strikes, collecting ap and letting my little Venom cascade all the smallcats out of the enemy.

nigelregal

My Level 400s Iceman switch team was just wrecking me. The way I won was to get into another match with venom to get him down to very low health then go into that match to kill him off quickly then beat it easily. When I went into it with full health I could never get AP to do anything. When enemy team has over 35k health taking anything but THING or Jean is suicide.

wymtime

So with the Venom node I brought OML and once I fired his strike tiles I also generated a lot of useless purple and green AP. This triggered venom's black and would cause massive cascades and damage to the other team. The damage to Venom was minimal.

Overall Venom plays much better with 5* then 4*. With 5* you can use OML in the way I explained. You can bring BSSM and fire venoms yellow to turn BSSM invisable to let him do massive damage. You can bring black bolt or SS to charge black and yellow tiles to have Venom do work with his 2more powerful abilities.
With the 4* he can be more of a meat shield. There are so many black and red powers it can be tough decide where to go but there are not a lot of great yellow powers, and the best part of Venom's yellow is it will grant invisibility as the AOE is good not great.

gravel

wymtime wrote:

So with the Venom node I brought OML and once I fired his strike tiles I also generated a lot of useless purple and green AP. This triggered venom's black and would cause massive cascades and damage to the other team. The damage to Venom was minimal.

Overall Venom plays much better with 5* then 4*. With 5* you can use OML in the way I explained. You can bring BSSM and fire venoms yellow to turn BSSM invisable to let him do massive damage. You can bring black bolt or SS to charge black and yellow tiles to have Venom do work with his 2more powerful abilities.
With the 4* he can be more of a meat shield. There are so many black and red powers it can be tough decide where to go but there are not a lot of great yellow powers, and the best part of Venom's yellow is it will grant invisibility as the AOE is good not great.

I'm liking Agent Venom more than I thought would because of this. OML's black with him is good.

SummerGlau

I only went with the Yellow Cover until I completed his essential nodes (now thanks to progression and a vault token he's 1/1/1)

SangFroid

MushroomGenius808 wrote:

It's not bad synergy, it's just a bad beat.

Well Phumade spelled it out as clearly as can be so its up to you whether you want to acknowledge it or not I suppose...

4Thor in this case is likely a better match with IM40 AV for you as she can still get her powers rolling with AV stealing and she can stun/lockdown the opposition.

Punisher5784

MushroomGenius808 wrote:

So now... IM40 is self-stunned, Thing is sitting on a long countdown, and rubbish undercovered Agent Venom is there all by his lonesome. He goes down with a well timed Iceman green and IM40 is hurting.

Have you tried making them invisible?

amusingfoo1

wymtime wrote:

So with the Venom node I brought OML and once I fired his strike tiles I also generated a lot of useless purple and green AP. This triggered venom's black and would cause massive cascades and damage to the other team. The damage to Venom was minimal.

Overall Venom plays much better with 5* then 4*. With 5* you can use OML in the way I explained. You can bring BSSM and fire venoms yellow to turn BSSM invisable to let him do massive damage. You can bring black bolt or SS to charge black and yellow tiles to have Venom do work with his 2more powerful abilities.
With the 4* he can be more of a meat shield. There are so many black and red powers it can be tough decide where to go but there are not a lot of great yellow powers, and the best part of Venom's yellow is it will grant invisibility as the AOE is good not great.

I found him actively counterproductive today. I tried him with BSS, but couldn't fire off BSS' green with him there, which was making it extremely difficult to deal with Rulk. Made it through the node, but used seven health packs just for that node. I regularly make it through a clear or grind (sometimes both) without using any. Definitely not going to try using him with Natasha. Worked so-so with Goblin, and that was how I got through the final pass, but even got hammered on that one.

wymtime

amusingfoo1 wrote:

wymtime wrote:

So with the Venom node I brought OML and once I fired his strike tiles I also generated a lot of useless purple and green AP. This triggered venom's black and would cause massive cascades and damage to the other team. The damage to Venom was minimal.

Overall Venom plays much better with 5* then 4*. With 5* you can use OML in the way I explained. You can bring BSSM and fire venoms yellow to turn BSSM invisable to let him do massive damage. You can bring black bolt or SS to charge black and yellow tiles to have Venom do work with his 2more powerful abilities.
With the 4* he can be more of a meat shield. There are so many black and red powers it can be tough decide where to go but there are not a lot of great yellow powers, and the best part of Venom's yellow is it will grant invisibility as the AOE is good not great.

I found him actively counterproductive today. I tried him with BSS, but couldn't fire off BSS' green with him there, which was making it extremely difficult to deal with Rulk. Made it through the node, but used seven health packs just for that node. I regularly make it through a clear or grind (sometimes both) without using any. Definitely not going to try using him with Natasha. Worked so-so with Goblin, and that was how I got through the final pass, but even got hammered on that one.

I don't know how much black you have but with BSSM I woul collect yellow to make Spider-Man invisible instead of green. Also once you get to 5 black his passive does not kick in until you have 16 AP of one color. I only have 2 Black now so it is not a great pair.

Phumade

Max Punisher might be a good 4* option. His powers fire cheap and can temporarily knock out Agent venom.

Maybe SS/AV/Max pun for the win?

dsds

nigelregal wrote:

My Level 400s Iceman switch team was just wrecking me. The way I won was to get into another match with venom to get him down to very low health then go into that match to kill him off quickly then beat it easily. When I went into it with full health I could never get AP to do anything. When enemy team has over 35k health taking anything but THING or Jean is suicide.

That's exactly what i would do. When I played that essential node, I just took it as a loss of a health pack and the other two supporting characters. I brought it all the suicide characters in hopes of killing my own agent venom first. Using hulk and wolverine was a guaranteed win and a guaranteed loss of 1-2 health packs. But it did the job. Hulk would collect the green so patch can fire his green. That guaranteed hulk's anger because of purple enemy strike tiles every turn and collecting more green and creating cascades that did over 1000 damage each. Then venom's alien weakness kicked in and did more cascades.