3 Strange vs 5 Strange at 550

Polares

I was checking today how 5 Strange is compared to 3 Strange when both are 550 and I found out some interesting results.

5 Strange Hitpoints 77k
3 Strange Hitpoints 90k

5 Strange blue at 550 => 13.7 dmg
3 Strange blue at 550 => 15.1 dmg

5 Strange yellow at 550 => 12.5k dmg
3 Strange yellow at 550 => 14.7k dmg + 3k heal

This is a bit... weird?

3 Strange is better than 5 Strange, 5 Strange has an active in yellow but loses the heal, blue is just worse and I guess purple is better for 5 Strange. I was expecting closer numbers, even 5 Strange being a bit better, but not a 3 scaling better than a 5. That is unexpected (we know 4s scale better than 5s, but I thought 3s would not).

pheregas

Was this 5* Strange also 5/3/5?

Polares

pheregas wrote:

Was this 5* Strange also 5/3/5?

Yes, I checked with 5 in all powers.

vudu3

Makes sense to me. There's no way for a player-controlled 3* to reach level 550 outside of BOP.

Heartburn

Disappointed

grunth13

Scaling is more exponential once a character passes their "recommended" levels. All characters were originally never meant to be championed, so once you start leveling past their max level, things get a little crazy. Its why 3 star characters where nerfed after champion levels were put into place. 4 stars were never nerfed, hence why 4 star teams are the most seen in BOP.

huktonfonix

Conventional wisdom is that BOP does not favor 5*s, and that 4s (especially) scale more powerfully at 550. This is not all that surprising.

As a player who has just finished champing the top tier 4's, and has no usable 5's, I'm fine with this and in no hurry to see changes that would widen the 4>5* gap.

Vhailorx

This is no surprise. 5*s are quite weak at 550 compared to other tiers. Strange just makes it more obvious because we have a lazy version that makes the comparison direct.

There is a reason that everyone uses 3*s or 4*s in bop, even if they have 5*s.

SummerGlau

normally a 3 Star Can only reach 266 (after obtaining 113 Covers)
a 5 Star can be level 270 with one cover
so of course at the same level the 3 star is better
I like balance of Power because it show the True Power of certain heroes (some two star and mostly 3 star)

Fightmastermpq

What is the difference in match damage???

Mitchjewitz

5*s still have a much better match damage than the rest of the star tiers. This is what truly separates 5*s from the rest of the characters.

Vhailorx

Mitchjewitz wrote:

5*s still have a much better match damage than the rest of the star tiers. This is what truly separates 5*s from the rest of the characters.

4*s have more health and do more ability damage than 5*s at 550. That is worth trading some match damage.

Fightmastermpq

Vhailorx wrote:

Mitchjewitz wrote:

5*s still have a much better match damage than the rest of the star tiers. This is what truly separates 5*s from the rest of the characters.

4*s have more health and do more ability damage than 5*s at 550. That is worth trading some match damage.

Not always. Not when you are fighting Peggy, or Strange, or Star Lord, or even OML.....

SummerGlau

I'm still at the stage where 5's are just Meat Shields
but higher match damage means my 0/2/0 OML spends a lot of time Shielding

zodiac339

aesthetocyst wrote:

Poor Strang3 only removes "up to" (cause players love RNG) 2 tiles one time. Sad trombones. At least he gets some AP back, making add'l uses cheaper.

What's this "up to" bit? I've only ever seen him remove 1. Every. Time.

JHawkInc

zodiac339 wrote:

aesthetocyst wrote:

Poor Strang3 only removes "up to" (cause players love RNG) 2 tiles one time. Sad trombones. At least he gets some AP back, making add'l uses cheaper.

What's this "up to" bit? I've only ever seen him remove 1. Every. Time.

I think it's supposed to be like 3* Bullseye's purple. Targets "up to 2", meaning it'll work if only 1 is on the board. It's not supposed to be RNG based where you "hope" it takes out more tiles. It's just bugged (seems to only take out 1 tile for everyone).

zodiac339

JHawkInc wrote:

zodiac339 wrote:

aesthetocyst wrote:

Poor Strang3 only removes "up to" (cause players love RNG) 2 tiles one time. Sad trombones. At least he gets some AP back, making add'l uses cheaper.

What's this "up to" bit? I've only ever seen him remove 1. Every. Time.

I think it's supposed to be like 3* Bullseye's purple. Targets "up to 2", meaning it'll work if only 1 is on the board. It's not supposed to be RNG based where you "hope" it takes out more tiles. It's just bugged (seems to only take out 1 tile for everyone).

I think the coders rushed with the 3 and 5 stars, giving them both only 1 tile.
Hmm, maybe we could have someone with an AP return per tile converted. A more villainous take "absorbs the power of his/her enemies. Converts up to X enemy (special tile types) to basic tiles, gaining X AP (a different color from the power used) per tile converted."

Polares

aesthetocyst wrote:

Polares wrote:

I was checking today how 5 Strange is compared to 3 Strange when both are 550 and I found out some interesting results.

5 Strange Hitpoints 77k
3 Strange Hitpoints 90k

5 Strange blue at 550 => 13.7 dmg
3 Strange blue at 550 => 15.1 dmg

5 Strange yellow at 550 => 12.5k dmg
3 Strange yellow at 550 => 14.7k dmg + 3k heal

This is a bit... [ selective! ]...

5trange has double the match damage across the board.

5trange has the advantage on crits: 4.3x vs. 3.0x for Strang3.

5trange also has the advatage of typrically more sophiticated 5* powers:

5 yellow has the option to fire offensively, don't have to wait to fire passively (remember, firing passively depends on the enemy firing first!*)

For a one-time cost, 5 pink creates an unmatchable tile that removes enemy special tiles every turn. Poor Strang3 only removes "up to" (cause players love RNG) 2 tiles one time. Sad trombones. At least he gets some AP back, making add'l uses cheaper.

______________________

* That's right ... 5trange fired first!

Yeah I guess I should not have said that 3 Strange is better than 5 Strange, but what it is surprising is how bad scaling is for 5s. We all knew that 4s had a much better scaling, but I was not expecting 3s to also had a better scaling than 5s. My post was more about this than the real comparison between both Stranges.

I think this speaks volumes about how messed up scaling is, and why people in 5 land have so many problems in PvE. Even 3s powers scale more than 5s powers!!!

madok

It boils down to me that 5* teams are the grills of BOP. I was super happy to see one or two 5*s on a team that was actually worth points.

It beat facing Peggy/IM40/<insertcharacter> the other 99% of the time.

Polares

aesthetocyst wrote:

Remember before champs, before 5*s, back when BoP ran at the then 4* max, lvl 270? That was also before the lower rarities scaling at high levels was blunted. Result? Certain 1*s and 2*s ran wild all over the 3*s and the very limited array of 4*s that existed then. After the 4thor XFW nerfs, BoP was a complete Juggs fest.

Had they not turned down the volume on the scaling of lower-tier abilities when they rolled out championing (the so-called "3* nerf" Forumice like to complain about (what, no tears for the 1*s or 2*s...?)), we'd be watching Juggs throw down 200K headbutts in BoP ... in every .... single ... match. Over and over.

TL;DR - 5*s are fine in BoP, at their 'normal' max; 4s enjoy an 'artificial' high; lower rarities were rebalanced out of the limelight.

But that's the thing, 2s and 3s were normalized so they would never have higher scaling than 4s. On the other hand, 5s were created, but Devs never renormalized how powers scale, so now curves for 4s and 3s scale more than for 5s. This is weird. I am not totally against it, because this will let us play with our 4s and 5s together, but it is important that Devs acknowledge that this is happening because it makes scaling so much worse for 5 teams. Usually 4s and 3s are not in the 430+ level, but they are for 5 teams in PvE, and then the powers of those chars scale A LOT. So the solution is or reduce how powers for 4s and 3s scale or reduce max difficulty for PvE (which I think is the best option). But something needs to be done!!!