Points Displayed in PVP Match-up Deceive?

Astralgazer

This is the first time I shot for 900 in PVP. I stopped at 838, shielded to wait for health pack recharge. Then before I start again, I shuffle all the possible match ups so that I would only need two matches to reach 900.

I did win the two matches. But the last one gave only 7 points respectively. I was shocked the first time, angry the second time. I tried to do one more match, but then the match defeats have started to pour in. I was beaten back to 830.

I hurriedly raised shield again. The tried again afterwards. Again. I won the two macthes that would bring me to 900. The second match only gave 16 points from the displayed 38 points before the fight. I'm this close to 900, again, the 72 points lost from defeat.

Why does the displayed points available differ from the actual points gained? This ruins my day.

Rod5

Pretty simple - the points displayed are indicative of your opponent's points score at the time you qd them.

It will increase/reduce if your score fall/rises, but doesn't adjust based on your opponent's changing points score.

Astralgazer

But I queued them right before I attacked. How could the points got from 32 to 7 in several minutes?

Jabrony_Geoff

Astralgazer wrote:

But I queued them right before I attacked. How could the points got from 32 to 7 in several minutes?

Same thing happened to me, two fights lined up, when I attacked and won 35 down to 7. Other one 30 down to 17.

Also

3 fights yesterday, 3 wins.
At the same time 5 attacks 5 defeats.
End up with less points than I started out with.
I have to laugh or I will cry.
System is BROKEN.

Rod5

OK then it is just a matter of when the q entered your cache. You may think it's a fresh q but it may have been there a while.

Rod5

System not broken, it is what it is. If you're getting hit more than you can hit, chances are that

A) your roster cannot protect your current score.

Or

you're just a bit unlucky that those who were out at that time were similar/lower level to you.

Rod5

What you need to remember is that you are playing 3 matches, all of those 5 people are only playing one. Sounds like you've been a bit unlucky with all those people q'ing you though and hitting at same time though.

Phumade

Astralgazer wrote:

This is the first time I shot for 900 in PVP. I stopped at 838, shielded to wait for health pack recharge. Then before I start again, I shuffle all the possible match ups so that I would only need two matches to reach 900.

I did win the two matches. But the last one gave only 7 points respectively. I was shocked the first time, angry the second time. I tried to do one more match, but then the match defeats have started to pour in. I was beaten back to 830.

I hurriedly raised shield again. The tried again afterwards. Again. I won the two macthes that would bring me to 900. The second match only gave 16 points from the displayed 38 points before the fight. I'm this close to 900, again, the 72 points lost from defeat.

Why does the displayed points available differ from the actual points gained? This ruins my day.

For the same reasons you got quad tapped by the baker 3 months ago. Its a function of how the queing system uses the MMR to create match making.

What your seeing is a result of how mpq prefetches ques to reduce server load and traffic. The technical under the hood details have been fairly consistent(but they won't publish this because its not intended for public consumption), and many players have come to understand that not all 30 point matches are created equal.

For example, If you were to que the "King who is not named" you could be very confident that his point value will remain incredible consistent if not continue to grow in points. Consider your self lucky indeed if you have a retal node from him. I can guarantee if you caught his retal on the 1st day for 50 pts, it will be worth 75 on the last day.
vs.
You catch a 2* roster player who is worth 50 pts when your at 200 and hes and 400. You wait 2 days to climb on the last day and you will see that his node value got cut in 1/2, even though you haven't played a single match in 2 days.

As player strategy and coordination become more interlocked, the ign, and the alliance tag mean a great deal as to the quality and consistency of the points.

Btw 900 points is a very contested choke point. Your at the intersection of where weaker rosters are struggle to crack 900 and the elite rosters are lurking waiting for their opportunity (shields to regen, Healthpacks, que targets to open up etc..) to break for 1200.

acescracked

Crazy, this is the first time this has ever been posted about in the forums....

jredd

also, if you cue up a match and 2-3 guys knock that guys score down before you win your match, the point value you get decreases.

thisone

jredd wrote:

also, if you cue up a match and 2-3 guys knock that guys score down before you win your match, the point value you get decreases.

This.

I hit you on the way up astralgazer, sorry about that Anyway, your climbing time is sound, hours before event end. Just need to win your matches quicker by the sound of it. Make sure to use strong boosts when climbing 650+. Use team ups that will enhance your strategy, or board shake up for when you get an awful starting board nothing slows a match down more.

How long does it take for you to win a match?

Remember, shields are to bounce retals (as well as to avoid fresh queues). If you are out in the open too long need to consider using more shields. Sometimes worth the extra hp. Especially since the advent of intercepts.

GrumpySmurf1002

Astralgazer wrote:

But I queued them right before I attacked. How could the points got from 32 to 7 in several minutes?

Skipping once or twice doesn't refresh the queue.

irwando

Astralgazer wrote:

Why does the displayed points available differ from the actual points gained? This ruins my day.

Because D3 is either to cheap to pay for server bandwidth for, or has hired developers incapable of designing, a system with real-time points calculation.

Either way, this + multiple hits during one fight are the 2 biggest problems with the game IMHO (over any character balance issues, RNG concerns, new character speed) and what ensures I will not spend money on this game.

They've designed a system where you must quickly meet specific goals or risk more chance of getting hit for more points than you can earn. So you need to be able to trust how many points you will earn, but can't.

Also consider you can be hit between the time the client displays your win and the server calculates your points, so the game could display you had over xxx points to earn a prize but the backend disagrees, so you don't get it. This has happened to me multiple times.

Pylgrim

At what time before the end did you try this? If you play this during the busiest times 7-8h to go, 2-3h to go, and 1h to go, there's a huge amount of players playing at the same time. Not only does this mean that you are more prone to attacks while you play, but your targets are too, especially if they seem soft.

Astralgazer

Thanks for all the answer. This is a new ground for me. My roster just got strong enough to push for 800; but not to 900 it seems. And, entering the new jungle that is "800+" in PVP, I apparently got stung.

Rod5 wrote:

OK then it is just a matter of when the q entered your cache. You may think it's a fresh q but it may have been there a while.

Well, is there any way to force refresh cache? Before 800, the points displayed are pretty consistent with the points received after a win; is there a difference between cache system pre- and post-800? Or is it a matter of fewer targets available after 800?

Phumade wrote:

Btw 900 points is a very contested choke point. Your at the intersection of where weaker rosters are struggle to crack 900 and the elite rosters are lurking waiting for their opportunity (shields to regen, Healthpacks, que targets to open up etc..) to break for 1200.

Then I accept that my roster is still not good enough to break 900. I must admit that I was a little disheartened seeing that all who attacked me were 4* players.

thisone wrote:

I hit you on the way up astralgazer, sorry about that Anyway, your climbing time is sound, hours before event end. Just need to win your matches quicker by the sound of it. Make sure to use strong boosts when climbing 650+. Use team ups that will enhance your strategy, or board shake up for when you get an awful starting board nothing slows a match down more.

How long does it take for you to win a match?

Nah. I have no beef against anyone who attack me now. Even when they multiple tap me. It's just the nature of system. I ranted the first time because I was shocked. Now I know better.

Anyway, I timed my ascend. In average, it takes ~3 minutes per match. It was longer in average than what it took me in Red Shift (~2 minutes), maybe due to a better synergy provided by boosted list in that event. I usually use either heavy hitters or board shakers for TU, depending on the opponent.

thisone wrote:

Remember, shields are to bounce retals (as well as to avoid fresh queues). If you are out in the open too long need to consider using more shields. Sometimes worth the extra hp. Especially since the advent of intercepts.

This has been a problem for me. "An error occurred" is always on the screen after 3-4 intercepts per day. I have to wait another day before I can get more intercepts without error.

Pylgrim wrote:

At what time before the end did you try this? If you play this during the busiest times 7-8h to go, 2-3h to go, and 1h to go, there's a huge amount of players playing at the same time. Not only does this mean that you are more prone to attacks while you play, but your targets are too, especially if they seem soft.

My climbing pattern: get to 100 at the start of event; 200 after I see that T10 players have hit 400ish; 400 after the timer rolls over to 1d 20-ish hour; 575 12 hours later (1st shield); 725 after the 2 day mark has been passed (2nd shield); and the climb to 800 at 12h or so. Strange Sight is the first event I pushed beyond 800, because I passed 725 with relatively plenty of health packs; and I decided I would try and hit 800. The final climb to 900 was at 12h mark.

So, all in all. I guess I will calm myself and embrace the fact that the reasonably attainable target to hit for me at this moment of my journey is 800. That is good enough. I have grown from only being able to get to 400, then to 575. I will now groom my 4* roster before attempting further. Thanks for all your replies.

Rod5

Yep, you've hit the nail on the head Astral

If you can't get to where you want to be, maybe just accept that you're not quite strong enough yet, try to build more and get your roster strong enough to fend off attacks when you hop. Getting to 900/1200 consistently will require a 4* army, and preferably (if you're lucky enough), a usable 5*.

If you're high and unshielded without a strong team you will be eaten alive. When you do get to the other side of the 4*/5* transition you'll see the other point of view...

Astralgazer

Rod5 wrote:

Yep, you've hit the nail on the head Astral

If you can't get to where you want to be, maybe just accept that you're not quite strong enough yet, try to build more and get your roster strong enough to fend off attacks when you hop. Getting to 900/1200 consistently will require a 4* army, and preferably (if you're lucky enough), a usable 5*.

If you're high and unshielded without a strong team you will be eaten alive. When you do get to the other side of the 4*/5* transition you'll see the other point of view...

It's like an role playing game all on its own. Under 400 you're in and around the hub city. It's relatively safe to play in, and the monster level is relatively low. From 400 to 725, it's the first wilderness. Bosses begin to appear, ambushes by wandering monsters are getting frequent. From 725 to 800, it's the first dungeon raid. Without a strong team, you have no hope. After 800, it's the first veteran area. Without uber-gears, don't even contemplate it. Beyond that, I still have no idea what evil lurks behind the shadow.

Phumade

Astralgazer wrote:

Nah. I have no beef against anyone who attack me now. Even when they multiple tap me. It's just the nature of system. I ranted the first time because I was shocked. Now I know better.

Wow your really starting to put the game into a proper perspective. I think this will really help you see the flow of pvp, and in turn you'll see that you play much more efficiently and effectively. There are many different tactics that will help you get to 900 with just the roster you currently have.

Alot of those tactics revolve around understanding when the bigger point players have to break for their matches, and getting a sense of what the quiet times and snipey times are in your bracket. Plus as you learn how other players operate, you'll find opportunities to either work cooperative (check rooms) or offensively (snipers). Both philosophies are equally valid and just like in Westworld you can play black hat or white hat.

These things all change from shard to shard an event to event. Thats why understanding how the underlying system works gives a big advantage in making decisions on who to hit and when to hit.

Mr_Sinister

After 850, never trust the points that are shown for teams that don't have boosted 4*. The PvP match making has a nasty habit of bait and switch when you're close to reaching the PvP reward that aligns with your roster level.
I have incorporated the inaccuracy into my PvP strategy because it is consistent. If you are 30 points out from 900 and come across a team that is too good to be true, meaning beatable and showing more than 30 points, consider it a trap because chances are good you'll be short after you win. The teams that you can bank on putting you past 900 will have boosted 4* you have small chance of winning against.

To hit 900 like you want, take the beatable team, use boosts, beat them fast, collect your points that'll put you short and get another shield up cause you'll be taking hits otherwise. Find the next beatable target and repeat until you hit 900. It's hp heavy but if you take the beatable team, win, come up short, then attempt to hit 900 on the next, you'll come back to having been hit multiple times and probably lower than when you started.

Pylgrim

Astralgazer wrote:

Pylgrim wrote:

At what time before the end did you try this? If you play this during the busiest times 7-8h to go, 2-3h to go, and 1h to go, there's a huge amount of players playing at the same time. Not only does this mean that you are more prone to attacks while you play, but your targets are too, especially if they seem soft.

My climbing pattern: get to 100 at the start of event; 200 after I see that T10 players have hit 400ish; 400 after the timer rolls over to 1d 20-ish hour; 575 12 hours later (1st shield); 725 after the 2 day mark has been passed (2nd shield); and the climb to 800 at 12h or so. Strange Sight is the first event I pushed beyond 800, because I passed 725 with relatively plenty of health packs; and I decided I would try and hit 800. The final climb to 900 was at 12h mark.

Hmm 12 hours is a perfectly reasonable time to play without being swarmed or having your targets crippled. It may have been just bad luck, but if further attempts obtain the same result, try a different time slice.

smkspy

All this is why I rarely play pvp, just too complicated a system for a mobile game. If I wanted strategy over the course of 2 days, I'd just assume play civilization or risk.

I just want to beat the hell out of some teams for two hours, get my rewards, and move on. And it's shame, I do like pvp in theory, but when I hit that 800 wall of being both hit more times than I can make up the points for and face teams that I can't possibly beat, it just turns me off the entire experience.

And that is the most disappointing aspect of SCL, because it only applies to rewards and not the level of play that would make pvp enjoyable for everyone, and not just those with mega rosters of 4 and 5 star armies.