The Game

Fiddler

I have been grinding at this game for a long time. Since shortly after it was released. With all the warts and frustrations, it is still a great game.

Each build offers new challenges and keeps me coming back. I like that.

But if there is one thing that have been consistent since I started, it is the constant stream of complaints in the forums. It seems that every new enhancement is met with a pile of vitriol.

if anyone out there thinks that this is constructive, you're wrong.

I am pretty tired of this us vs. them mentality. It would please me to no end if we could focus more on the positives of the game rather than the negatives.

And I'll start with myself. If I have a legitimate problem, I'll raise a ticket. If I am just venting steam, I'll keep it between me and my dog. I would like to see this game, and the forums, fun for everyone.

Steeme

I've found that despite the quote unquote complaints plaguing the forums that most players complain in a very constructive way and I can detect (and relate to) the underlying care for this game to succeed.

There is no substitute for the truth and there is no disrespect to those wholeheartedly trying to seek it.

THEMAGICkMAN

I wish more people would read these threads, rather than brag and complaint threads. Although recently a lot of people were quite angry (myself included) we were just venting steam. We get that it's not constructive, but complaining is the way most people here seem to give advice, it's meant in more of a constructive critism way, rather than a disrespectful hurtful way.

Plastic

Here's my issue, and maybe it's my own issue - I don't know. When people take time to point out problems in the game or their frustrations, we rarely get any feedback at all. We have no idea what is or isn't being done to address our concerns. I'm not asking for promises for every demand or complaint, but the staff really needs to interact more. Otherwise it really is an "us vs them" scenario because they aren't approaching "us."

Volrak

Plastic wrote:

Here's my issue, and maybe it's my own issue - I don't know. When people take time to point out problems in the game or their frustrations, we rarely get any feedback at all. We have no idea what is or isn't being done to address our concerns. I'm not asking for promises for every demand or complaint, but the staff really needs to interact more. Otherwise it really is an "us vs them" scenario because they aren't approaching "us."

This seems very fair. I don't think it's your own issue. I think the community could be improved by more communication and responsiveness.

On the other hand I also agree completely with Fiddler's original post; there's a big difference between constructive feedback on the one hand, and the snide put-downs, trash-talk, and mini tantrums that litter the forums on the other hand. I'm all for feedback to the devs, but the latter can only demotivate. With the volumes we sometimes get here, in some cases verging on the abusive, I really hope the bulk of the staff who work on the game don't visit the forums, because it's simply hard to see how that kind of vitriol wouldn't have a material negative impact on their work.

Put yourself in the shoes of one of the staff whose job does include wading through the muck. Does anyone think they look forward to it? Does anyone think it makes them more likely to take opportunities to engage? Of course not.

Jester

Complaints are usually borne from a desire to see the game improve. An argument could be made that 'complainers' care about the game even more than those that remain silent. They are motivated enough to see issues fixed that they actually take the time to post their frustrations instead of suffering in silence.

Also, if nobody is voicing their concerns, then you are guaranteed to see nothing done to resolve those frustrations. At least airing the 'complaints' gives the Devs visibility to them so they know that maybe things could be improved. Otherwise they think everyone is happy and we all just get more of the same.

Jester

Volrak wrote:

Put yourself in the shoes of one of the staff whose job does include wading through the muck. Does anyone think they look forward to it? Does anyone think it makes them more likely to take opportunities to engage? Of course not.

Even a simple acknowledgment of a complaint can go a long way in community relations. Following up on that with actually resolving the issue or at least explaining why it is the way it is can create very long term happy customers.

On the other hand, a complete lack of response at all from staff fosters even more negativity from the customers, up to and including losing them as a customer. It promotes the 'us vs them' viewpoint when customers feel like they are not being heard.

Volrak

Jester wrote:

Even a simple acknowledgment of a complaint can go a long way in community relations. Following up on that with actually resolving the issue or at least explaining why it is the way it is can create very long term happy customers.

On the other hand, a complete lack of response at all from staff fosters even more negativity from the customers, up to and including losing them as a customer. It promotes the 'us vs them' viewpoint when customers feel like they are not being heard.

I agree completely, like I said at the start of my post above. One thing to note is that d3go seem to be a 5 day a week company; I think many of us are used to companies who offer 7-day community support. D3go unresponsiveness and community negativity both seem to peak on weekends.

I think both the devs can do more, and the community can do more to develop a healthier relationship. Being part of the latter group, my post above focused mostly on what that group could do differently. For me, raising issues ("complaints") isn't a problem in itself; it's more about the tone and language used, and the constant presumptions of incompetence, stupidity, malice, and/or greed made against d3go and its staff. I don't know why players who say these things and believe it would continue investing yet more of their time into the game. (For what it's worth, Jester, I think your recent posts in the "Hello Devs" thread were not so bad; the actual feedback far outweighed any gratuitous negativity.)

yunnnn

Volrak wrote:

For me, raising issues ("complaints") isn't a problem in itself; it's more about the tone and language used, and the constant presumptions of incompetence, stupidity, malice, and/or greed made against d3go and its staff.

For me, game bugs and maintenance ("screwups") aren't problems in themselves; it's more about the tone and response given to us, the constant presumptions of no real wrongdoing, the blatant money grab by the "exclusives" and underwhelming iap, and the lack of real design put into the constantly power-creeped sets.

There's a reason why my highest rated comment is one where I point out the failures of their compensation. And it's really not about what the compensation is, but rather how they handled it. Their actions do not make us feel good. And fairly enough, our response will be in kind.

Yunnnn wrote:

The game's owners need to realize that whales don't just spend money because they have some abject addition to the game. Unless the game experience feels rewarding and the game's operators come across as generous, there is no reason why I should spend 100$ on big boxes when I could go have a couple of steaks and a lobster. There is no reason why I shouldn't go find something else to play. BF1 anyone?

Remember, IAP has 2 components: Getting some loot, and supporting a company that we believe in and trust. The game's operators would be wise to consider this.


Did they even go through any sort of logic when deciding the compensation?
1. Giving out 1000 runes is admitting that they did nothing wrong. Tons of bugs, tons of crashes, every event locks up at the beginning or end. Just because they don't admit it doesn't mean its not there. Good job devs: You've created an atmosphere where, despite all your hard work releasing new events and cards, you're labelled as incapable of maintaining your own servers and fixing bugs.

2. There is no incentive for the devs to fix their bugs. Why fix bugs when you can give out worthless magical currency?

3. Giving out a small amount of crystals has NO EFFECT on their bottom line. 250 crystals is nothing to a whale, and whales will whale in spite of it. On the flip side, boosting a starting player's crystals is only going to make them want to get into the game more, not less.

4. 1000 runes is 3.33 quick battles. Come on. It took me longer to write this post than to do 4 qbs.

5. The compensation is disrespectful and insulting. You guys took down the server with no real warning and made people lose their games! (And yes, I didn't lose anything, I saw the forum post...) There is no argument here. Besides the completely discouraging drop rates that Big Boxes have, the way that this compensation was handled is pretty good reason to stop whaling out of principle.

6. To those who say that 1000 runes is better than nothing... is it really? Let's get hypothetical and say they gave out 1 rune as compensation. Would you be insulted by receiving 1 rune? It's better than nothing... right? Believe it or not, it is completely possible to bungle a compensation, and they've done it here. They've brought up expectations and then completely deflated them, losing our trust in the process. I argue that this is worse than doing nothing at all.

Volrak

yunnnn wrote:

For me, game bugs and maintenance ("screwups") aren't problems in themselves; it's more about the tone and response given to us, the constant presumptions of no real wrongdoing, the blatant money grab by the "exclusives" and underwhelming iap, and the lack of real design put into the constantly power-creeped sets.

Sure - I don't see that as contradicting anything I said, and I even agree with most of it.

LeafHyren

There is value in the criticism. I would also imagine developers genuinly appreciate it. But some of what goes on in this forum is simply venting and screaming into pillows.

How wonderful everything would be if everyone was a master at constructive critiquing.

I agree with you. And would like to encourage you to tolerate it... To balance it, to be a reasonable voice. I am relatively new to this forum and I almost made the choice to not return after the foul smells. Even being influenced by such and adding my kind of poison. But then there are people like you and a few more standing on higher moral ground and I was encouraged to stay.

But lashing back at the back lash doesn't seem like a better solution, I don't have an alternative other than remembering to stay afloat the nonsense and not be drowning in it and eventually dishing it out as justice.

We need the valancing voices. And I personally appreciate them as a fellow member of the community.

yunnnn

Volrak wrote:

yunnnn wrote:

For me, game bugs and maintenance ("screwups") aren't problems in themselves; it's more about the tone and response given to us, the constant presumptions of no real wrongdoing, the blatant money grab by the "exclusives" and underwhelming iap, and the lack of real design put into the constantly power-creeped sets.

Sure - I don't see that as contradicting anything I said, and I even agree with most of it.

I was using that as a point for why the OP's post is not valid.

Imagine if this game was a paid title; the various problems I pointed out would be absolutely unacceptable. For the players who have paid money in the game, it is in their complete right to make such complaints about the game's flaws. Never have I seen a game's community turn against the game's operators so drastically as this one, and I really do not disagree with the reasons.

While it is important to remain civil, the following should be completely acceptable:
1. Post meaningful complaints about the quality of this game.
2. Post satire, including brag threads (and yes, if anyone looks carefully enough, each one has a very clear message to the game developers).

shteev

Volrak wrote:

Put yourself in the shoes of one of the staff whose job does include wading through the muck. Does anyone think they look forward to it? Does anyone think it makes them more likely to take opportunities to engage? Of course not.

You reap what you sow. I'm a member of a number of online communities, and there's a reason that this is the only one I constantly spit bile in.

MaxMagic420

yunnnn wrote:

Imagine if this game was a paid title; the various problems I pointed out would be absolutely unacceptable. For the players who have paid money in the game, it is in their complete right to make such complaints about the game's flaws. Never have I seen a game's community turn against the game's operators so drastically as this one, and I really do not disagree with the reasons.

Took the words out of my mouth. I've never seen the likes of it myself. I've been playing long enough to have noticed the increase in anger posts.
But that's the result of d3 policy. They basically behave as if nothing is ever their fault, nothing we say is worth listening to, and they steadfastly refuse to change anything. Let's just keep buggy cards buggy, allow events to crash constantly, and charge an obscene amount of money for products that are essentially worthless. And all the while maintaining complete radio silence.
All the anger and frustration is inevitable when nothing gets fixed and they don't communicate. And it's only going to get worse, because nothing I've seen has led me to believe that they care at all about their player base.
Whatever. I feel like a broken record at this point. You get it.

losdamianos

Thats all nice praising the game but the issues are real
Something has changed within D3 go staff and they become much more greedy
Power creep/ 1000 runes reward instead of crystals / or so much exclusivity on new cards
this game is much more pay to win as it used to be
Whoever made this decision to fucus on $$$ needs to realize how big impact it will have on overall PR of this game

Fiddler

I see a few have taken another opportunity to use this thread to post the usual nonsense memes. Truth is every release improves gameplay, fixes bugs and adds content.

shteev

Fiddler wrote:

I see a few have taken another opportunity to use this thread to post the usual nonsense memes. Truth is every release improves gameplay, fixes bugs and adds content.

Truth is subjective. That's your truth. My truth is I'm getting more and more demoralised with each update, my RSI is getting worse, and I'm genuinely concerned about people I really like quitting the game.

Ohboy

I see the people who keep saying they'll quit soon are the ones who consistently still play obsessively and join events on the dot.

I don't agree with most of the complaints, but threats of boycott are empty if no one actually does it. So if you're serious about your complaints and threats, you should really organise the boycott.

Making empty threats at devs and expecting them to react is not the most productive use of your time.

shteev

Ohboy wrote:

I see the people who keep saying they'll quit soon are the ones who consistently still play obsessively and join events on the dot.

I don't agree with most of the complaints, but threats of boycott are empty if no one actually does it. So if you're serious about your complaints and threats, you should really organise the boycott.

Making empty threats at devs and expecting them to react is not the most productive use of your time.

You'll notice I didn't say I was going to quit. I'm quite happy to stay here and provide productive feedback, as I always do. But some of my good, good friends are talking about hanging up the towel completely, and that would make me very sad.

I represent the voice of the toxic community, and I'm here to tell you we're not going anywhere.

tomatus89

Complains are valid and necessary. Of course it's better when put in a constructive way. Look at what almost happened to Kiora, if it weren't for the player feedback she would've been nerfed to the ground.

LeafHyren

shteev wrote:

Fiddler wrote:

I see a few have taken another opportunity to use this thread to post the usual nonsense memes. Truth is every release improves gameplay, fixes bugs and adds content.

Truth is subjective. That's your truth. My truth is I'm getting more and more demoralised with each update, my RSI is getting worse, and I'm genuinely concerned about people I really like quitting the game.

Hahaha everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts