Free the ISO D3!!!!

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wymtime
wymtime Posts: 3,757 Chairperson of the Boards
edited October 2016 in MPQ General Discussion
So as CL 8 comes out D3 keeps missing the boat on the challenge 4* and 4-5* players face. The issue we have is not getting 4* covers, it is not earning enough HP or CP. The issue is ISO!!! Champion levels and 2* farming is the way a lot of players are keeping up with HP for shields and roster slots and XP. Seriously did you want players farming 2* to bump up thier XP??

You have lowered CP rewards in PVP and PVE which is appreciated, but the fact of the matter is it still takes 2 weeks sometimes more to level and champion a 4*. You have players farming ISO in LR only playing seed teams, players climbing in PVP only to fall to. Limb again so they can earn an ISO bonus. The forum has come up with so many better ideas then what you are doing with CL. You can make a multiplier based on shield rank, you can make CL give more ISO per node, more ISO per PVP fight, you could eliminate the skip tax in PVP.

The ISO from CL 7-8 is tiny compared to what is neede to level 4* and 5*. CL was suppose to address these types of issues for players. If you want to encourage players to play in the correct CL it is not an extra 4* for top 10 in PVE it is double the ISO for nodes in CL8 it is significantly increase the progression ISO in CL8.

Stop being so stingy D3 free the ISO and make your players happy!!!
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Comments

  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2016
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    I more or less agree (though i do still think there are problems related to the 4* cover economy, if less so now with pve prog covers).

    The basic idea of cl8 is at least partially misconceived. It hasn't increased rewards at the top, it has just pushed rewards further down the ladder. That's not bad, especially for covers, so yay. This will help people build their 3* rosters.

    But the iso problem isn't as much of an issue for players 250-1k in a pve bracket. Casual players tend to need covers more than iso. But vets remain iso starved. Players who routinely grind pve for iso and finish top 150 or better get very little from cl8 because the iso rewards are basically frozen from cl7.

    By all means continue pushing rewards down with new CLs, but please dont stop cranking up the iso at the top (or you could change levelings costs, but that's a different topic entirely).
  • Tromb2ch2
    Tromb2ch2 Posts: 301 Mover and Shaker
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    Vhailorx wrote:
    The basic idea of cl8 is at least partially misconceived. It hasnt increased rewards at the top, it has just pushed rewards further down the ladder. That's not bad, especially for covers, so yay. This will help people buold their 3* rosters.
    So what you are saying is that sl 52 people are supposed to be building our 3* up? Most people I know at around 52 already have half the 3* champed (at least) and the other half are already at 13 covers but need ISO to champion them. The added 3* down the bracket doesn't really help people that should be at 4* transition.
  • hodayathink
    hodayathink Posts: 528 Critical Contributor
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    Tromb2ch2 wrote:
    Vhailorx wrote:
    The basic idea of cl8 is at least partially misconceived. It hasnt increased rewards at the top, it has just pushed rewards further down the ladder. That's not bad, especially for covers, so yay. This will help people buold their 3* rosters.
    So what you are saying is that sl 52 people are supposed to be building our 3* up? Most people I know at around 52 already have half the 3* champed (at least) and the other half are already at 13 covers but need ISO to champion them. The added 3* down the bracket doesn't really help people that should be at 4* transition.

    Which should mean those 3* covers are champ levels to their (probably recently) championed 3* characters, getting them access to the 4* champ rewards quicker. Shield Rank 52 players, at best, are at the beginnings of the 4* transition, at which point the ISO being earned seems about right for them (enough to max a 3 star fairly easily if you pull a 14th cover, and while not enough to max a 4 star in the same situation without heavy grinding, enough to put enough levels into one for it to be useful).
  • Tromb2ch2
    Tromb2ch2 Posts: 301 Mover and Shaker
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    Which should mean those 3* covers are champ levels to their (probably recently) championed 3* characters, getting them access to the 4* champ rewards quicker. Shield Rank 52 players, at best, are at the beginnings of the 4* transition, at which point the ISO being earned seems about right for them (enough to max a 3 star fairly easily if you pull a 14th cover, and while not enough to max a 4 star in the same situation without heavy grinding, enough to put enough levels into one for it to be useful).
    So worst case scenario I use 3 champ levels and get 2000 iso best case I get a 4* cover. Base case scenario is running at a bunch of 4* covers as fast as I can just to hit the brick wall that is iso shortage. Having more covers still doesn't help the 4* transition that much. Also with there being 40 3* getting 3 covers every 40 events (less with PvE & PvP combined) it will still take a long time to get the 4* covers from champ rewards.
  • Polares
    Polares Posts: 2,643 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I don't understand this post, you are getting an extra 400 iso in progression and I think 1000 iso or even more in placement!!!! You don't think that is enough? Now, instead of 3 weeks to champ a 4 you will need, exactly the same time !!!! That is clearly an improvement... or is it?
  • Pylgrim
    Pylgrim Posts: 2,296 Chairperson of the Boards
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    It's really bizarre. The thick of improvements of SCL8 over SCL7 occur for placement between top 100 and top 300, where the 3* rewards were extended greatly. But... we are talking of Rank 52 players here. You don't get to be Rank 52 being top 300 in PVEs. Basically we're talking here of dedicated players who as a reward for 20 full ranks of growth are given the chance of... slacking off and taking it easy for the same 3* rewards? Because duking it out with all the players Rank 80 and above (i.e. 5* level) for a place at the top 10 seems like a losing proposition.
  • Punisher5784
    Punisher5784 Posts: 3,837 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Pylgrim wrote:
    It's really bizarre. The thick of improvements of SCL8 over SCL7 occur for placement between top 100 and top 300, where the 3* rewards were extended greatly. But... we are talking of Rank 52 players here. You don't get to be Rank 52 being top 300 in PVEs. Basically we're talking here of dedicated players who as a reward for 20 full ranks of growth are given the chance of... slacking off and taking it easy for the same 3* rewards? Because duking it out with all the players Rank 80 and above (i.e. 5* level) for a place at the top 10 seems like a losing proposition.

    I agree but at least I will no longer feel the pressure of placing T50 for 3* covers
  • mpqr7
    mpqr7 Posts: 2,642 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I did the math, and I think you gain around 5000 additional iso per event when you increase from scl 7 to scl 8, so that's not bad. Maybe even more if you account for sub rewards for individual and alliance. It could be as much as an extra 10,000 iso every 3, 4 or 7 days. Every bit counts! And there are SLs as well, for an additional 30,000+ iso every few weeks!

    I'm hopeful that this will shave my 4* champing period down from once every 3 weeks to around once every 2.5 weeks. We'll see.
  • thecoffeemug
    thecoffeemug Posts: 9 Just Dropped In
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    I got ahead of the game, as I was one of the ones who inadvertently got a boost from the rank bug. It was a nice shot in the arm, and with the 2x rewards during anniversary, I nearly eliminated the ISO-debt. (I came here to report it, and I filed a ticket, so I did everything above board during the bug, just a quick FYI). Kind of a reset. Already I can see my level of 4 stars acquisition outpacing my iso acquisition, but it is slow, and I am in a comfortable spot. Every four star I have over 10 covers for is fully iso'd, and I am happily working on making sure the characters with 6-9 covers are keeping pace with their covers.

    The point of all this is to make a suggestion. Given how much this has improved my game experience, I would suggest either reworking the ISO-real money prices, or give everyone a one-time mega iso boost for a reasonable price (I would buy it as well). With the holidays coming up, might be nice gift.... I'm thinking in the 500k ISO range. It would do wonders for long time players getting frustrated. It is a lot, but only makes a dent for those with 2 million and more ISO-debts. You still need ISO When you are behind that much, but you get a handful of new 4 stars that are actually useable, and that changes the game remarkably for me.

    Just a thought!
  • JackTenrec
    JackTenrec Posts: 808 Critical Contributor
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    On the complete opposite side of the spectrum from the OP, as a 3* to 4* transitioner who started at SCL7 and qualifies for SCL8, the issue is still 4* covers. The extra 4* cover in progression is nice, but I hardly see that as a boost to the transition when new characters are being introduced at the rate they've been coming in (I have more covers on my unleveled Phoenix than I do on half of my rostered 4*).

    This might change when I finally start to champion 4*, but right now, every character I have that isn't a 5* is leveled as high as possible and I'm still hovering around 700K banked ISO. My guess is that SCL7-8 really need to provide additional opportunities for earning 4* covers (still T10? really?) and that ISO bonuses need to get bumped up for gaining ranks to help the whaley whales who already have everything covered but not championed.
  • westnyy2
    westnyy2 Posts: 194 Tile Toppler
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    I think the ISO is flowing freely at this point and I will give credit to D3 for that. What is still lacking, even in CL8 is the path to 5's. There are more 4's, HP and ISO but not CP or any type of LT's. For the first time since I was a 2 star player, ISO isn't my issue.

    I understand that by applying more 4 star levels to champions I will earn what I'm looking for but really thought that CL8 would start to address the 4 to 5 transition. I didn't expect a ton but would another 5 CP's in progression hurt?
  • BassMuffinFIve
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    Is it really a surprise to anyone that D3 still doesn't understand their own game/playerbase??
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,757 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Hmmm. How much iso would be enough in the OP's estimation?

    Now, I may still be carrying psychic scars from the days of saving up 70iso drops in weeks-long efforts to max lowly 2*s way back in the day, and those memories might be making today's bounties seem more generous than they are, BUT ...

    I'm not playing much this week (never play Heroics much, work has precluded almost all LRs, and hampered any pvp farming ... boo), but am still pulling in over 30K iso a day. That's good enough to max a 2* in just over 2 days from scratch, and a 3* in 4. 4*s and 5* in 12 and 18 days respectively. Not lightning fast, but not bad.

    OK, I have a pretty developed roster and get a lot of champ rewards, true. But I also have a noob account on which I play one (1) match a day, the 500iso DDQ node. Sometimes, maybe once a week, I'll play 1-3 nodes in another event on it. With that low level of activity, along with alliance rewards and daily stuff, it's pulling i 5K iso/day, and actively champing its 2*s.

    So, how much is enough? You want more ... have you tried playing more?
    To answer your question I play PVP above 1200, I play PVE to max progression and sometimes more and I play LR seed teams. How you are pulling 30K ISO a day without playing PVE and LR is a mystery to me. I can earn enough ISO to level 1 4* every 2 weeks or so. I personally feel they need to increase the rewards from placement to node rewards. In anniversary we had double ISO but no CL. The double ISO for node rewards is where the game should be for CL8-10. The fact that I farm 2* to expediate my XP so I can upgrade shield rank and get that extra ISO feels like I am cheating the mechanics of the game.

    So overall I feel double the ISO on the node rewards and eliminate the skip tax in PVP and double the ISO rewards given in PVP would be appropriate. If thy eliminated the 30 bonus ISO for eliminating the skip tax I would be fine with that as well.

    I would ask how are you making 30k a day without playing LR or PVE?
  • SnowcaTT
    SnowcaTT Posts: 3,486 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Temp.jpg

    That sig is coming back soon enough. I took it away during double-iso anniversary...and now my characters are so stacked up/backlogged that I know I'll be throwing covers left and right again.

    WHY, AGAIN, isn't double Iso regular Iso at this point?!?

    Double character release rate compared to initial characters. More expensive to level characters compared to initial characters. Quad-current ISO rate and I'm not sure I'd ever be ahead.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Tromb2ch2 wrote:
    Vhailorx wrote:
    The basic idea of cl8 is at least partially misconceived. It hasnt increased rewards at the top, it has just pushed rewards further down the ladder. That's not bad, especially for covers, so yay. This will help people buold their 3* rosters.
    So what you are saying is that sl 52 people are supposed to be building our 3* up? Most people I know at around 52 already have half the 3* champed (at least) and the other half are already at 13 covers but need ISO to champion them. The added 3* down the bracket doesn't really help people that should be at 4* transition.

    Did you read the rest of my post? I'm complaining about the rewards.

    I just wanted to concede up front that extra 3* covers isn't nothing. Even those of us who have 40 3* champs can still use 3* covers; the champ rewards get pretty decent above 220. So while I agree that more 3* covers for Rank 52+ players isn't the best idea ever, it's not bad, and I wouldn't want to just give it up. Then I went on to point out that CL8 doesn't really give regular PVE grinding vets much extra incentive to grind out top 150 placement.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
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    mpqr7 wrote:
    I did the math, and I think you gain around 5000 additional iso per event when you increase from scl 7 to scl 8, so that's not bad. Maybe even more if you account for sub rewards for individual and alliance. It could be as much as an extra 10,000 iso every 3, 4 or 7 days. Every bit counts! And there are SLs as well, for an additional 30,000+ iso every few weeks!

    I'm hopeful that this will shave my 4* champing period down from once every 3 weeks to around once every 2.5 weeks. We'll see.

    Would you kindly point me to said math?
  • GurlBYE
    GurlBYE Posts: 1,218 Chairperson of the Boards
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    JackTenrec wrote:
    On the complete opposite side of the spectrum from the OP, as a 3* to 4* transitioner who started at SCL7 and qualifies for SCL8, the issue is still 4* covers. The extra 4* cover in progression is nice, but I hardly see that as a boost to the transition when new characters are being introduced at the rate they've been coming in (I have more covers on my unleveled Phoenix than I do on half of my rostered 4*).

    This might change when I finally start to champion 4*, but right now, every character I have that isn't a 5* is leveled as high as possible and I'm still hovering around 700K banked ISO. My guess is that SCL7-8 really need to provide additional opportunities for earning 4* covers (still T10? really?) and that ISO bonuses need to get bumped up for gaining ranks to help the whaley whales who already have everything covered but not championed.


    I don't know about anyone else on the forum besides you and me man,

    But boy I'd much rather have to worry about inevitable iso, (funny that everyone hates scaling but wants to max things out) then having to deal with 40 4 star covers from a legendary pack.

    I need iso and covers for sure, but until they make colorless I'm kinda stuck here on team, "well cool, it's my first spider gwen cover i guess, maybe you'll just be 1000 iso for now, or oh look my 8th green x factor wolverine, with my 2 black and 2 yellow, this one is especially pretty and shiny."
  • Jarvind
    Jarvind Posts: 1,684 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I'm gonna preface this by saying I only read the first 2-3 posts, so sorry if this has already been covered, BUT.

    Is there ever a huge difference between ranks, besides where it goes from awarding 3*s for progression to a 4* cover? For example, is there a tremendous difference between rank 4 and 5, or rank 5 and 6? I only skimmed the lower ranks because I had no intention of playing them, but from what I remember the progression in better rewards is pretty gradual.

    Given that the intent seems to be that we will eventually have a max SHIELD clearance level of 10, I think it makes more sense to wait until the entire system is implemented before we start bashing rank 8.
  • mpqr7
    mpqr7 Posts: 2,642 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Vhailorx wrote:
    mpqr7 wrote:
    I did the math, and I think you gain around 5000 additional iso per event when you increase from scl 7 to scl 8, so that's not bad. Maybe even more if you account for sub rewards for individual and alliance. It could be as much as an extra 10,000 iso every 3, 4 or 7 days. Every bit counts! And there are SLs as well, for an additional 30,000+ iso every few weeks!

    I'm hopeful that this will shave my 4* champing period down from once every 3 weeks to around once every 2.5 weeks. We'll see.

    Would you kindly point me to said math?

    It's hard to do it until right before an event, when I can shift back and forth between lv 7 and lv 8. Unless someone has them posted somewhere?

    Basically I added up the differences in ISO between progression rewards, placement rewards, alliance rewards for the event plus all subs. It all adds up.

    I had it all in front of me at one time. Maybe I can do it again Thursday next week, before the Dr. Strange event (if that one has SCL).
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,757 Chairperson of the Boards
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    mpqr7 wrote:
    Vhailorx wrote:
    mpqr7 wrote:
    I did the math, and I think you gain around 5000 additional iso per event when you increase from scl 7 to scl 8, so that's not bad. Maybe even more if you account for sub rewards for individual and alliance. It could be as much as an extra 10,000 iso every 3, 4 or 7 days. Every bit counts! And there are SLs as well, for an additional 30,000+ iso every few weeks!

    I'm hopeful that this will shave my 4* champing period down from once every 3 weeks to around once every 2.5 weeks. We'll see.

    Would you kindly point me to said math?

    It's hard to do it until right before an event, when I can shift back and forth between lv 7 and lv 8. Unless someone has them posted somewhere?

    Basically I added up the differences in ISO between progression rewards, placement rewards, alliance rewards for the event plus all subs. It all adds up.

    I had it all in front of me at one time. Maybe I can do it again Thursday next week, before the Dr. Strange event (if that one has SCL).
    The biggest increase is from placement in each sub and specificly being top 10-20. Being top 100 had a minimal increase. The progression ISO was about 1000 ISO total.
    For placement there is a bigger addition of HP that is more easily won than in CL7. Also if you look at how long the event is you are better off looking at ISO earned per sub event. They really need to take the ISO and more it from placement to nodes in CL. That will reward players for playing in thier correct CL and have them able to earn ISO.

    I will also conceded the 30K from XP you can get from leveling up is a very nice bump. The issue that I have with this is I feel like I am cheating the system by farming 2* to do it. I am not always improving my roster or gaining real experience. I farm 2* for the CP and HP so I would do it regardless but I feel the 2* farm is the fastest way to gain XP and level up your shield rank and that does not feel like the correct purpose of the 2* tier