Open letter to the devs regarding coalition rewards

Ohboy

Hi,

I would like to suggest that the rewards for placing in coalitions be dialed back.

Currently, we have a system that has a big positive feedback loop. The top 10 coalitions get a free mythic free twice a week. This rate of mythic acquisition is impossible to keep up with for the other players. For better or worse, the strength of our decks are dependent on our mythic collection. This ensures that the top 10 coalitions are there more or less permanently, and it's not for lack of effort from the rest.

This effect filters down to the individual power levels too. As the events progress and more of the top 10 coalition members fill up their collection, ties with perfect scores dominate the scoreboard. This makes it doubly hard for people outside that elite clique to get the mythic rewards, effectively creating a monopoly of mythic event rewards for these 200 players.

The dominance of this group is so great in the current system that one poster even feels comfortable complaining that he has too many mythics. It shows that he doesn't even consider people outside the top coalitions as players he's in direct competition with anymore. This is a toxic attitude that is surely not limited to him.

At this point, the damage is already done, and they will continue to dominate for expansions to come. But that doesn't mean you can't gradually reverse the trend.

I suggest that cards not be given out as rewards, but boosters instead. This way, they will be given prizes that will less instantly power up decks.

I understand that this idea if implemented will probably create a backlash in the vocal community (which is made up of many top 10 coalition members). But we can hope that they will not be openly hypocritical about making the game an easier one for new players to enter, since many prominent posters have repeatedly used that reason to justify their arguments over the last year.

Best regards,
Ohboy

EDHdad

Alternately, they could award a higher number of Mythics to a higher number of people.

Anyone could have earned an Oath of Liliana in the last event, and it's one of the best cards in the new set.

Handing out fewer prizes and Nerfing drop rates isn't going to make the highly competitive players less competitive.

Ohboy

killwind wrote:

I seriously want to Take a **** on this post. We are elite because of the fricking combined effort and planning we put into this, we aren't f*cking entitled, we have taken that sh*t and made it ours. He's just whining because he's not one of us! Do you really not get the intent of his post.

That dude completely missed the real intent of Yunnn's post and went with the perceived intent.

Okay keep up dude because im gonna explain it for you.



While on the surface of Yunnn's post it seems to be what your whining about. But in actuality its a bit of a dig at the Dev's. The actual point of the thread is they shouldn't have relegated only 6 available mythics from the new set to be lootable and the rest as exclusives.

You will realise of course that the point of my thread is that you "elite" coalitions are in a positive feedback loop. Whether you put in effort or not isn't the point. I applaud your efforts, but it's the rewards I'm talking about. They create a barrier of entry independent of whatever effort you speak of. A group of 20 friends working hard together would find it hard to compete with you now, because they aren't getting 2 mythics a week. BTW, this is the kind of arrogance I'm talking about. You think you're the only ones putting in effort?

As for Yunn...this really isn't the first time he's made a thinly veiled brag post. And complaining you've run out of mythics to loot a week after a new expansion comes out? This is what I'm talking about. You guys have lost touch of what it's like for normal gamers. The feedback loop is so massive you're taking power cards for granted and complaining you aren't able to gain more of an advantage.

Tilikum

Bro... You chose the wrong vampire.

LeafHyren

hahaha *eats popcorn*

Being one of the "elite" and grinding it out on that massive loop I have this to say.

Both of you have a point. Take some time to understand each other.

Neither of you will get the solution you want but you'll benefit from empathizing.

yunnnn

Tilikum wrote:

Bro... You chose the wrong vampire.

Yea, I'm not sure why OldBoy is so chewed up for not picking the right vampire.

Tilikum

Honestly, I think the toothpaste is already out of the tube. The game critically lacks content for good players with strong collections who can't duck out of work to compete in events. Just gotta collect progression crystals and blow them on a Big Box while the fat cats are like Mtv Cribs style with their mythics.

Ohboy

Tilikum wrote:

Honestly, I think the toothpaste is already out of the tube. The game critically lacks content for good players with strong collections who can't duck out of work to compete in events. Just gotta collect progression crystals and blow them on a Big Box while the fat cats are like Mtv Cribs style with their mythics.

Which is why events shouldn't be so polarizing. You're right about the damage already being done though. But I think given the power creep and the rate of new expansions release... We can slowly reverse the problem over the next year if we stop this now.

Giving winners big advantages for the next event is how you create a stagnant elite and stiffle competition.

LeafHyren

There are 200 of us in the top 10 coalitions, and several thousands that aren't.

The 200 are playing a very different game than that of the casual player. The loop merely helps us beat each other. Platinum is much more difficult rank.

This is a problem of the haves and have nots. Let the haves want more and the have nots have a regular life lol we are all in the level we tolerate. If anyone feels like they should be in the top 10 let me know and if you can cut it we can make a spot in my coalition But be ready to grind it out at the maximum, every battle with at least an 80% win rate, and try to keep your sanity when you get 5 copies of the same mythic.

yunnnn

Ohboy wrote:

The dominance of this group is so great in the current system that one poster even feels comfortable complaining that he has too many mythics. It shows that he doesn't even consider people outside the top coalitions as players he's in direct competition with anymore.

I don't really consider anyone as direct competition
My gold rank slumdogging has resulted in me getting top ranked rewards in ~the last 10 events. And I've only been playing for 2 months now.

Ohboy wrote:

I suggest that cards not be given out as rewards, but boosters instead. This way, they will be given prizes that will less instantly power up decks.

You realize boosters are already given out as rewards right? I got most of the EMN mythics from SOI big boxes that I won in QBs a month ago and saved until EMN came out.

Ohboy wrote:

I suggest that cards not be given out as rewards, but boosters instead. This way, they will be given prizes that will less instantly power up decks.

You realize boosters contain mythics right? Giving players boosters instead of the guaranteed mythic is basically the same thing. And this helps me even more because I'm missing a bunch of SOI cards. So... thanks?

Tilikum

I mean, I agree that the way coalition rewards are set up is idiotic but if I was part of a top 10, I wouldn't want them to change it. Those dudes earned them mythics.

There just needs to be a middle ground for people that wanna work their way up to that point. As it is, the game is becoming more and more stagnant to players who can't go that hard.

Friends that I know who play this are feeling the same way. Like we're getting phased out because we can't evolve fast enough.

Steeme

I don't think we should segregate "elite players" and "other players". Some people have more time to play, others don't. But it doesn't mean one player loves the game more than another player.

Having said that, there are a lot of complaints about drop rates in packs. This is due to the fact that so many cards, packs, and crystals are being handed out like candy, especially to top coalitions. They may have "earned it", but the paying customer is suffering. They cannot possibly increase drop rates when they give so much stuff away for free to the top 200 players.

Not sure what the solution is. Perhaps allow more direct purchases? It always has to be a balance between people who have excess time vs. people who have excess cash.

Ohboy

yunnnn wrote:

Ohboy wrote:

The dominance of this group is so great in the current system that one poster even feels comfortable complaining that he has too many mythics. It shows that he doesn't even consider people outside the top coalitions as players he's in direct competition with anymore.

I don't really consider anyone as direct competition
My gold rank slumdogging has resulted in me getting top ranked rewards in ~the last 10 events. And I've only been playing for 2 months now.

Ohboy wrote:

I suggest that cards not be given out as rewards, but boosters instead. This way, they will be given prizes that will less instantly power up decks.

You realize boosters are already given out as rewards right? I got most of the EMN mythics from SOI big boxes that I won in QBs a month ago and saved until EMN came out.

Ohboy wrote:

I suggest that cards not be given out as rewards, but boosters instead. This way, they will be given prizes that will less instantly power up decks.

You realize boosters contain mythics right? Giving players boosters instead of the guaranteed mythic is basically the same thing. And this helps me even more because I'm missing a bunch of SOI cards. So... thanks?

Please then support my cause to campaign for a boosters instead of guaranteed mythic for top players. You won't, because you know you've just made a ridiculous argument.

As for your new brag about "slumming" for only 2 months and not considering anyone as competition, I'll just call that exhibit A for why the coalition rewards close the door on a competitive format.

Ohboy

LeafHyren wrote:

There are 200 of us in the top 10 coalitions, and several thousands that aren't.

The 200 are playing a very different game than that of the casual player. The loop merely helps us beat each other. Platinum is much more difficult rank.

This is a problem of the haves and have nots. Let the haves want more and the have nots have a regular life lol we are all in the level we tolerate. If anyone feels like they should be in the top 10 let me know and if you can cut it we can make a spot in my coalition But be ready to grind it out at the maximum, every battle with at least an 80% win rate, and try to keep your sanity when you get 5 copies of the same mythic.

When you get 2 guaranteed mythics a week, it's disingenuous to pretend it hits as hard as someone who gets 5 repeat mythics from big boxes they bought with cash or saved up crystals.

Ohboy

Steeme wrote:

I don't think we should segregate "elite players" and "other players". Some people have more time to play, others don't. But it doesn't mean one player loves the game more than another player.

Having said that, there are a lot of complaints about drop rates in packs. This is due to the fact that so many cards, packs, and crystals are being handed out like candy, especially to top coalitions. They may have "earned it", but the paying customer is suffering. They cannot possibly increase drop rates when they give so much stuff away for free to the top 200 players.

Not sure what the solution is. Perhaps allow more direct purchases? It always has to be a balance between people who have excess time vs. people who have excess cash.

It's not just the willingness to put in the time. That seems to be the major misconception here, that those outside the top 10 teams somehow don't put in effort. I see people in my coalition playing every node and not getting there. And with every event that goes by, the incentive falls away because it becomes clearer by the event that they will never reach the goal because the defending teams are accelerating away.

Like I said, the reward feedback loop creates a barrier of entry independent of effort. A look at how many people will tie with perfect scores in the next event should be enough to see why it's already too hard for those without to attain good cards at even a fraction of the rate of the teams who have been boosted for months.

If we're already at the point where the so called "elites" think they deserve to not be compared to those who just so happened not to join a top 10 coalition, then disaster has already happened to a competitive ranking system, and there needs to be immediate corrective measures taken.

LeafHyren

Ohboy wrote:

LeafHyren wrote:

There are 200 of us in the top 10 coalitions, and several thousands that aren't.

The 200 are playing a very different game than that of the casual player. The loop merely helps us beat each other. Platinum is much more difficult rank.

This is a problem of the haves and have nots. Let the haves want more and the have nots have a regular life lol we are all in the level we tolerate. If anyone feels like they should be in the top 10 let me know and if you can cut it we can make a spot in my coalition But be ready to grind it out at the maximum, every battle with at least an 80% win rate, and try to keep your sanity when you get 5 copies of the same mythic.

When you get 2 guaranteed mythics a week, it's disingenuous to pretend it hits as hard as someone who gets 5 repeat mythics from big boxes they bought with cash or saved up crystals.

Not pretending to be hurt. That's just what happens. But I am pretty sure you have not purchased as many crystals or boxes as me lol I am also one of those buying themselves into power hahaha so I get that hit from opening all those box. Want the numbers? I keep records

Stormbringer0

Steeme wrote:

Not sure what the solution is. Perhaps allow more direct purchases? It always has to be a balance between people who have excess time vs. people who have excess cash.

And that is the point. I put good effort in this game, got a "good" collection and still can't make the top 10 in events or QBs, because I have a job and a family. Right now, I'm playing on my own, trying to complete my collection and maximize the power of my decks. Since I can't make it to the top brackets, because I haven't the time to grind hardcore, it's real hard for the "normal" player to get rares/mythics they want. Not even spending money does the job.

Bottom line: If there are too many elite player, which always block the front seats, other players will stop playing because of frustration.

yunnnn

Ohboy wrote:

Please then support my cause to campaign for a boosters instead of guaranteed mythic for top players. You won't, because you know you've just made a ridiculous argument.

I support it. I want SOI packs so I can actually open a Fevered Visions. For some reason, the EMN packs are heavily weighted towards EMN rares, so I probably need a bajillion packs to get the cards I'm missing from SOI.

Ohboy wrote:

As for your new brag about "slumming" for only 2 months and not considering anyone as competition, I'll just call that exhibit A for why the coalition rewards close the door on a competitive format.

I only joined my coalition a couple of weeks ago. I got a total of 5 mythics from coalition rewards (4 dupes). Honestly, I'm just good at magic and other children's trading card games.

Ohboy

yunnnn wrote:

Ohboy wrote:

Please then support my cause to campaign for a boosters instead of guaranteed mythic for top players. You won't, because you know you've just made a ridiculous argument.

I support it. I want SOI packs so I can actually open a Fevered Visions. For some reason, the EMN packs are heavily weighted towards EMN rares, so I probably need a bajillion packs to get the cards I'm missing from SOI.

Great!

HunMike

So it cometh.
This came to the point where I agree with OhBoy. Next order of business is apocalipse (No offense, but this really didn't happen before).

I have a decent collection and a ton of experience so i decided not even trying to get in a top coalition for the sole purpose of supporting future player base right from the start. They are in dire need of those rares to be competitive.
I don't consider this as a selfless act, i simply wanted to prolong the game a little longer so i can enjoy it more.

The problem is that with all those mythics roaming around, i slowly fall back from the top, which will result in not being able to fullfill my goal of supporting others later.

Yep, there IS an elite caste. Yep, i'm in it, somewhere at the bottom. Yep, it was my decision. My problem is that i do the exact same grind as any of the tops, getting the same perfect (or near-perfect) scores as any of the tops and i get only half of the goods out of it. You know what would help? Slowing down pumping out new cards, so the casual players will have the TIME they need to get the good cards out of a set.

This would ensure that the elite has access every content sooner than the crowd (as it is in a bunch of pay to win games), but the content stays within the reach of the masses in time. They can keep their crowns, we can keep our share of fun for the game. Win-win. (And the $ keeps flowing, so its actually win-win-win )

If the devs ever plan to implement real pvp then this is a must, asap. As for now, I'm able to take down even a perfect deck because of the ai. If that changes, than true pvp will show how big the gap between the elite and the casual really is. I don't want to be an alarmist but that would most likely mean the end of the game via decimating the player base. For now, it still can be corrected.

In paper, you can pick specific cards to create a deck that can withstand on a tournament. In this game you don't have that opportunity, so you either go for a near-complete collection - which easily can mean a four digit investment in dollars AND countless hours of grinding, still with a fat chance of failing to achieve it- or accept that some (i mean most of the) content will be always out of reach for you.

Alve

1. I spend hours a day managing our coalition, swapping people back and forth, planning for holidays and family emergencies. I even made a friggin' spreadsheet, for gods' sake. No, 'a group of friends coming together' will not have the same results. How shocking.
2. Giving everyone lame rewards because you feel bad about not getting better rewards leads us nowhere. What we need is a lower dupe rate, better drop rates, maybe slightly expanding top qb rewards bracket and a system which lets us buy chosen cards for crystals. Oh, and more interesting events, not just increasingly pointless objectives ('Cast 15 turtles'). THAT would make your situation better.
3. It is definitely possible to build a decent deck wihout being in a top 10 group. Grind QB (yeah, it's painful, but personally I've done it and it works), don't artificially increase your mastery, just improve your decks as you earn new cards, compete in events. Not to mention spending cash, something this game obviously wants you to do.
4. Without pointing fingers, some people created top 10 coalitions seemingly out of nowhere. I often see players from small groups far, far away in the rankings joining us and immediately scoring much higher than our seasoned players, who have been with us forever. I've seen complete newbies with better black decks than me, simply because I just can't find this key black mythic everyone has. I built a decent green deck just after starting playing (in August), simply because one of my first boosters contained pre-nerf UH. Some of my teammates haven't gotten an UH yet, despite competing at a top 10 level. It's really not as simple as you're trying to say.

Newsflash - having worse rewards won't magically put you in a better situation. It'll just mean that the only way for *you* to earn any cards will be to repeatedly grind qb or spend truckloads of money. Right now at least you can hope to join a top coalition, not an impossible feat - we have openings all the time. Spoiler alert: it's mostly dupes anyway. After getting my first mythic from EM (from a booster box, before you ask), I got it two more times, because why the hell not, right?

Btw, you'd be better off hunting for EM rares. There's one non-exclusive mythic in this set worth getting.