Forum suggestion: Bring back the downvotes

Ducky

Stax the Foyer wrote:

I understand the point of your overall post, but I think that people don't replace downvotes with not interacting, they just replace downvotes with negative comments. Not at a 1:1 ratio, but enough that reasonable people can differ as to what is better.

Yea. Downvotes aren't going to facilitate for a more pleasant experience on the boards. If we want a more pleasant environment, we have to facilitate it by changing the tone and culture of posts that go out and until we do it will be status quo regardless of if we have downvoting or not.

Stax the Foyer

DuckyV wrote:

Stax the Foyer wrote:

I understand the point of your overall post, but I think that people don't replace downvotes with not interacting, they just replace downvotes with negative comments. Not at a 1:1 ratio, but enough that reasonable people can differ as to what is better.

Yea. Downvotes aren't going to facilitate for a more pleasant experience on the boards. If we want a more pleasant environment, we have to facilitate it by changing the tone and culture of posts that go out and until we do it will be status quo regardless of if we have downvoting or not.

I agree that it won't make the community nicer, but that wasn't the stated goal of the OP. The community is what it is for reasons that go beyond downvotes.

My support for downvotes has been with the intent of making the forums more useful, not more pleasant. If downvotes have the net effect of reducing a 30 page thread down to 20 pages, that's a good thing, and that's why I'd like to see them.

Ducky

Stax the Foyer wrote:

If downvotes have the net effect of reducing a 30 page thread down to 20 pages, that's a good thing, and that's why I'd like to see them.

But when has this ever happened when downvotes were a thing? Usually only a handful of posts would ever get hidden, if any, in a long thread. Counter upvotes prevented this from being a thing. Again, I just down see the usefulness of downvotes to the point that they need to be brought back.

Fightmastermpq

DuckyV wrote:

Stax the Foyer wrote:

If downvotes have the net effect of reducing a 30 page thread down to 20 pages, that's a good thing, and that's why I'd like to see them.

But when has this ever happened when downvotes were a thing? Usually only a handful of posts would ever get hidden, if any, in a long thread. Counter upvotes prevented this from being a thing. Again, I just down see the usefulness of downvotes to the point that they need to be brought back.

It's not about posts getting so many downvotes that they are suppressed, but allowing several people to just downvote and move on without having to post a reply illustrating why a post is terrible.

Right now every post is either "one man's opinion", or "one man's good opinion". It would be beneficial to add "one man's **** opinion" to the list of possibilities.

Stax the Foyer

DuckyV wrote:

Stax the Foyer wrote:

If downvotes have the net effect of reducing a 30 page thread down to 20 pages, that's a good thing, and that's why I'd like to see them.

But when has this ever happened when downvotes were a thing? Usually only a handful of posts would ever get hidden, if any, in a long thread. Counter upvotes prevented this from being a thing. Again, I just down see the usefulness of downvotes to the point that they need to be brought back.

Oh, I don't even think hiding posts shortened a thread, it still had that placeholder that let you click to see it.

It's more that it lets people disagree without taking up a post spot to do it, and that long-term, it might lead to some more judicious, less reactive, posting. I think the signal-to-noise ratio is as bad as it's ever been on the forums, and this could help address that.

dsds

Fightmastermpq wrote:

DuckyV wrote:

Stax the Foyer wrote:

If downvotes have the net effect of reducing a 30 page thread down to 20 pages, that's a good thing, and that's why I'd like to see them.

But when has this ever happened when downvotes were a thing? Usually only a handful of posts would ever get hidden, if any, in a long thread. Counter upvotes prevented this from being a thing. Again, I just down see the usefulness of downvotes to the point that they need to be brought back.

It's not about posts getting so many downvotes that they are suppressed, but allowing several people to just downvote and move on without having to post a reply illustrating why a post is terrible.

Right now every post is either "one man's opinion", or "one man's good opinion". It would be beneficial to add "one man's tinykitty opinion" to the list of possibilities.

It doesn't really change anything to be honest. How I see it, even on the up votes, someone could say something that has a lot of people agreeing but doesn't necessary mean it is true for everyone. Especially like strategies that work for advanced rosters, really don't work for newbie rosters. Heck this forum makes up such a small minority of players. It's not a perfect system. But I don't think the system is broken enough to change it. People here say VIP sucks, yet in my own alliance I get that 1 cp all the time?

Regarding negative posts. It's because of how we are treated by the developers. Little Communication, unpopular changes But I think the tone has improved a bit when the communications improved a bit.

What I'd like to know is how is this forum compared to other free to play game forums? Free to play in general is frustrating because they have to make it that way to entice you to spend. So it's not really the forum but the game category?

Dauthi

In my opinion down votes create more negativity. It's easier to click that button than it is to reason why you disagree in a post. While there are some bad posts now and again, down votes are more likely to stifle a conversation rather than inspire one.

Besides, the way it is now if someone takes the time to disagree with the OP and puts out a response you generally agree with, up vote it. It's the same as down voting the OP except constructive.

Fightmastermpq

Dauthi wrote:

In my opinion down votes create more negativity. It's easier to click that button than it is to reason why you disagree in a post. While there are some bad posts now and again, down votes are more likely to stifle a conversation rather than inspire one.

Besides, the way it is now if someone takes the time to disagree with the OP and puts out a response you generally agree with, up vote it. It's the same as down voting the OP except constructive.

The downvote allows for more information immediately. Consider the character info threads. Many have polls for best builds, others do not. When you are re-specing your character you typically consult the character's thread, see what the agreed upon best build is, and you are done. If there is no poll, how often do you read through the entire thread and read the intricate arguments to support any one build over another? Rarely I'm sure.

Same thing goes for a ****. Rather than scrolling through several dissenting opinions on the post's shittiness you can see the massive downvotes and just move on to something better.

Dauthi

Fightmastermpq wrote:

If there is no poll, how often do you read through the entire thread and read the intricate arguments to support any one build over another? Rarely I'm sure.

Always, even if there is a poll. Just because it's popular doesn't mean it's right. The best course of action is to read both sides and judge for yourself. There could be one guy saying something important that is ignored because he is new or unpopular. This is especially true for non-character building discussions, as the real world doesn't have a clear cut right or wrong like a build for Thor would.

You bring up a good point of players jumping on a down vote bandwagon rather than participating in a discussion and judging for themselves. In any case, if it matters that much you could always read only the up-voted comments.

DrDevilDinosaur

DuckyV wrote:

You know what I see in this thread? People looking for more ways to be negative on an already overtly negative forum.

Someone said something you don't agree with and you can't find anything objectively constructive to contribute without insinuating insults? Then just ignore the post and don't reply.

If people are getting warnings, most of the time their posts are being reported by the person they were referencing. Guess what? Downvotes could be reported, too! So you aren't going to be able to get away with it by tucking insults into a downvote, let alone the issues mods had with retaliatory downvoting and the like.

Want to make the forums a better place? Just don't post if something upsets you that much. Take it to Line or just walk away for a while. Just because you can post something doesn't mean you always should.

There is a reason that devs participate more on Reddit and on DIscord than on the forums. Bringing back downvotes would likely lessen the sparse amount of contact we do get on the forums even further.

I thought the mpq reddit was pretty dead, I tried to find some information about the recent events there and I could only see topics from at the start of this year. maybe I went to the wrong reddit? anyway there are lots of rede and green names that post on here all the time so that's good

Ducky

DrDevilDinosaur wrote:

anyway there are lots of rede and green names that post on here all the time so that's good

Just for reference, red names are either employees of Demiurge or D3Go. Green names are volunteer moderators that are not affiliated with either company in any official way. They just do the grunt work of keeping the forums up and running smoothly, of which I am thankful.

DrDevilDinosaur

DuckyV wrote:

DrDevilDinosaur wrote:

anyway there are lots of rede and green names that post on here all the time so that's good

Just for reference, red names are either employees of Demiurge or D3Go. Green names are volunteer moderators that are not affiliated with either company in any official way. They just do the grunt work of keeping the forums up and running smoothly, of which I am thankful.

oh is that why they are always closing topics? I should sya thankyou too

David [Hi-Fi] Moore

Thank you for the suggestion. There are no plans at this time to bring back down votes.

TLCstormz

ABSOLUTELY HILARIOUS that the people complaining about OTHER USERS are the same ones telling strangers on the internet "go kill yourself, please."

This world is such a disaster. lol

El Satanno

"David wrote:

Moore"]Thank you for the suggestion. There are no plans at this time to bring back down votes.

Thanks for chiming in...and more or less killing the discussion. But I won't let it die!

There certainly are healthy opinions on both sides of the argument. And that's not something I wanted to stifle, either! Maybe I'm just too altruistic, but I've always subscribed to the philosophy that downvotes are intended to curtail posts that don't add to the conversation. How many times can we see so-and-so post little more than "GLARB BLARBAGAGRG GREEDY DEVS COMPENSATION YAR GLARB!" before we wish our forum had trash collectors in addition to mods? Bear in mind that taking (wasting?) the time to reply appropriately (say: "You make the same tired non-argument every time, in every thread. Please stop it.") and you're likely to get warned/banned for it. One man says "ignore it and move on," another says "look at the thick layer of garbage you've allowed to cover everything here."

Anyway, I'm not trying to argue the policy. I just believe that self-policing would work again. And I'd really like a simpler way to express my distaste for meaningless posts.

El Satanno

OJSP wrote:

I'm not trying to change your opinion, but I'd just use the add foe function. I give a negative poster 3 strikes before he goes to my list (currently I have 30). I've stopped trying to fix things, I found that my replies tend to lead to more arguments and I get even more upset. My forum reading time is greatly reduced now.

I might just go that way, although it's no better than the very unsatisfying "ignore it" route. It's just makeup to cover the gangrenous infection.