Is grilling better than CC's?

Tony_Foot

So we were told that CC's were bad for the game, one of the main reasons was the score board. People would look at the scores and see thousands of points for T10. So now we have the new CC free world. For disclosure I am a three star player trying to transition and I used CC for a couple of seasons. I still use the rooms and now all we have is a scenario where the bigger players can eat the grill. The smaller players cannot. The gap therefore just gets bigger again. They can feed themselves 4 star covers and the 3 star misses out.

I have zero problems with them doing this, I just don't see how this is any better for the player trying to transition and the scores. My T10 currently:



Yep that's no better than it was and it's now actually harder for me to get the 3 star cover too. I also hate with a close 3 star roster I have no real idea who I have left out. Surely it's time to actually use the CL levels properly? Separate us by CL level, only for example CL 7 for 3 star transitioners 50-59 CL8 for 60-69 and so on. Right now I'd rather have CC back, you only killed the progress of the smaller players. The rest are able to carry on as near normal as the scores show. As I said I have no problem with the users of the system, the problem still lies with the game.

mpqr7

I find that after 900 points, progress skids to a halt. Each match earns 20-30 points, meanwhile I'm getting attacked and losing 70 points left and right.

It doesn't make sense to say "defensive losses have been lowered" when you're only lowering from 70 points to 67, or some such nonsense.

I don't like the 20-30 point matches, because that means even with shielding, it would take 3 or 4 hops to get from 900 to 1200, which is a massive amount of HP to spend, just to win some CP. It's simply not worth it. So I'll max out at around 950, which I guess is what they want?

nigelregal

Yeah I have most 4* championed now and am not able to get to 1200 pts unless I do 3 or so hops and use the 5* grills.

I am able to hit 900-1000 points and then shield.

Philly79

Just another attempt to make the "more enjoyable overall"....fail

an1979

mpqr7 wrote:

...it would take 3 or 4 hops to get from 900 to 1200, which is a massive amount of HP to spend, just to win some CP...

Just As Planned.
Move along.

jobob

There are fewer scores in the 3k range now, and they are the big 5* rosters typically. I... guess?... that's what the devs were going for.

The grilling does exactly what the people who know the game said it would do. It allows people with big rosters and high points- who used to use cupcakes to distribute their points all the way down to 2* rosters- to now distribute those points to the people with rosters a little below theirs.

I can still funnel points to a team running boosted champ 4* or 420+ 5*... but gone are the days I could help out a 2*, 3*, or non-champ 4* roster.

AND "grillers" are now way less exposed than they were as "bakers." The point of a CC was that anyone could find it and beat it. And ANYONE did find it and beat it... so you had to worry about hits from 1* teams on up. Now, when I grill... I get just as many defensive wins as I do bounces, and typically no one has time to hit me before I shield up.

TL;DR - "Grilling" is like "Baking," but with bonus defensive win points, fewer risks, and instead of benefiting the whole player base, it benefits only the top of the mountain.



...But, hey... I'm placing way better, so... yay?

mohio

From someone who has usable 5* and can reach 1200+ fairly easily before shileding, I still don't like this system. It was far more enjoyable to hop and drop cc's than it is now to do whatever the heck it is we're doing. "Grilling" for other 5* is almost entirely done only to raise points for everyone in the shard and is utterly pointless. I would do it if it helped out the 3/4* players, but they're better off hopping and baking/grilling for each other instead of eating those max 5* teams.

scottee

This is exactly what everyone who actually understood high level play was saying already. CCs only helped those who were climbing higher than their rosters should have been able. Now the 2nd and lower tiers all have a harder time making the progression they want. High tier rosters never actually needed CCs; they were actually doing it to benefit others, and were only slightly benefiting themselves along the way.

Now, PVP progression is similar to what it used to be before CCs. I find it perfectly reasonable to need to save up 3-4 shields to make top progression. It's what we all used to have to do back in the day. Save up HP (a lot of times foregoing roster slots and selling a 2*) in order to have 450-600 to spend on shields. Then when a 4* cover you want comes up, hope you can hop fast enough to get to 1300 for the HB or 4Thor cover you really need. Oh yeah, while average matches are worth 25 instead of 37 points.

Functionally, we're back to exactly that, except 3* rosters can shoot for the 4* cover at 900 and 4* rosters can shoot for the CP at 1200. Everyone just got used to it being a lot easier that they don't know how to do it the normal way anymore.

cyineedsn

scottee wrote:

This is exactly what everyone who actually understood high level play was saying already. CCs only helped those who were climbing higher than their rosters should have been able. Now the 2nd and lower tiers all have a harder time making the progression they want. High tier rosters never actually needed CCs; they were actually doing it to benefit others, and were only slightly benefiting themselves along the way.

Now, PVP progression is similar to what it used to be before CCs. I find it perfectly reasonable to need to save up 3-4 shields to make top progression. It's what we all used to have to do back in the day. Save up HP (a lot of times foregoing roster slots and selling a 2*) in order to have 450-600 to spend on shields. Then when a 4* cover you want comes up, hope you can hop fast enough to get to 1300 for the HB or 4Thor cover you really need. Oh yeah, while average matches are worth 25 instead of 37 points.

Functionally, we're back to exactly that, except 3* rosters can shoot for the 4* cover at 900 and 4* rosters can shoot for the CP at 1200. Everyone just got used to it being a lot easier that they don't know how to do it the normal way anymore.

It was kind of reasonable back in the day to spend 450-600 on shields for all important 4* covers like HB, hitting those milestones and getting the covers really made a difference. But things are very, very different today. With the number of 4*s available, and even 5*s in the classic tokens, it doesn't really seem like such a good deal to spend that much on shields for a single cover/pull.

scottee

cyineedsn wrote:

It was kind of reasonable back in the day to spend 450-600 on shields for all important 4* covers like HB, hitting those milestones and getting the covers really made a difference. But things are very, very different today. With the number of 4*s available, and even 5*s in the classic tokens, it doesn't really seem like such a good deal to spend that much on shields for a single cover/pull.

Oh, I agree that it's not worth as much. But if you're trying to advance in this game via PVP, that's the next step for a 4* roster. And if it's not that important, than not making 1200 shouldn't be a big deal.

And since there's lots of other ways to earn CP (including 2/5 of it moved to 575), the 1200 progression is less relevant than ever. People are going to be able to earn 4* covers AND 25 CP just from playing PVE. Which is a huge advancement when the only way before WAS the 4* progression cover in PVP.

SnowcaTT

CP/amount will continue to be a complaint until they fix the RNG-only nature of 5* transition.

As for CC's - I am actually hitting placement rewards now! T25 often, when T100 wasn't a given with the CC situation! So I like that part.

BUT...as others have said - I can hit that T25 without hitting 1200 now. If I miss out on 3/5'ths of the CP, this change made me get higher leveled 3*'s at the cost of less chances at 5*'s. That's not a change anybody should want.

puppychow

mpqr7 wrote:

I find that after 900 points, progress skids to a halt. Each match earns 20-30 points, meanwhile I'm getting attacked and losing 70 points left and right.

It doesn't make sense to say "defensive losses have been lowered" when you're only lowering from 70 points to 67, or some such nonsense.

I don't like the 20-30 point matches, because that means even with shielding, it would take 3 or 4 hops to get from 900 to 1200, which is a massive amount of HP to spend, just to win some CP. It's simply not worth it. So I'll max out at around 950, which I guess is what they want?

I'm actually in a similar situation. While I DO occasionally come across targets worth 40+, my odds of beating 80k+ health defense and reshielding in time is just very, very low. So once I reach 900 (or lower if I don't like the 4* cover), I'll basically quit the event.

puppychow

scottee wrote:

This is exactly what everyone who actually understood high level play was saying already. CCs only helped those who were climbing higher than their rosters should have been able. Now the 2nd and lower tiers all have a harder time making the progression they want. High tier rosters never actually needed CCs; they were actually doing it to benefit others, and were only slightly benefiting themselves along the way.

Now, PVP progression is similar to what it used to be before CCs. I find it perfectly reasonable to need to save up 3-4 shields to make top progression. It's what we all used to have to do back in the day. Save up HP (a lot of times foregoing roster slots and selling a 2*) in order to have 450-600 to spend on shields. Then when a 4* cover you want comes up, hope you can hop fast enough to get to 1300 for the HB or 4Thor cover you really need. Oh yeah, while average matches are worth 25 instead of 37 points.

Functionally, we're back to exactly that, except 3* rosters can shoot for the 4* cover at 900 and 4* rosters can shoot for the CP at 1200. Everyone just got used to it being a lot easier that they don't know how to do it the normal way anymore.

Another way of looking at it is that perhaps the bean counters at D3 felt that too many players were reaching CP progression in pvp, and were searching for ways to make it harder for the average player to do so. Well, I guess we can now say: "Mission Accomplished."

carrion_pigeons

The real design goal was to reduce the benefit of OOG communication. That is what they said it was and that is what has happened. A player with a medium roster can't just join LINE and jump up the ranks by a mile.

Whether or not you consider that a good thing for the game itself, that was always what this was about, as far as the devs were concerned.

Pylgrim

scottee wrote:

This is exactly what everyone who actually understood high level play was saying already. CCs only helped those who were climbing higher than their rosters should have been able. Now the 2nd and lower tiers all have a harder time making the progression they want. High tier rosters never actually needed CCs; they were actually doing it to benefit others, and were only slightly benefiting themselves along the way.

Now, PVP progression is similar to what it used to be before CCs. I find it perfectly reasonable to need to save up 3-4 shields to make top progression. It's what we all used to have to do back in the day. Save up HP (a lot of times foregoing roster slots and selling a 2*) in order to have 450-600 to spend on shields. Then when a 4* cover you want comes up, hope you can hop fast enough to get to 1300 for the HB or 4Thor cover you really need. Oh yeah, while average matches are worth 25 instead of 37 points.

Functionally, we're back to exactly that, except 3* rosters can shoot for the 4* cover at 900 and 4* rosters can shoot for the CP at 1200. Everyone just got used to it being a lot easier that they don't know how to do it the normal way anymore.

How are 4 shields "reasonable? That's at minimum 450 HP, but more likely to be 600. That's not sustainable unless you purchase HP regularly. Not to mention that if you were attacked /once/ during a hop, that likely set you back to a fifth shield.

shusheshe

I'm in early 4* transition and I can no longer hit the 900 point mark for the 4 star cover that I need for progression. And certainly WITHOUT cc's i'm no longer spending HP # hopping; I don't see the point. Points dry up dramatically after 700 so I fight as much as i can without # up to 700s/800, then # up to the end.

My placement hasn't changed much actually... it's been top 100 with cc's and still the same now. I've never bothered going above 1300 before and only hit that point half the time.

So if d3's trying to get me to spend less HP (and spend less actual money BUYING HP) for shielding purposes, they've succeeded! I'm certainly playing more PVE because that's where the cover I need is located now, no HP needed for shielding and I actually EARN more ISO and HP there.

like1tiger

I joined S4 this event and my 930 points got me ranked at 105,, top 10 were similar to what was listed here with a few over 3000.. it hasn't really helped anything removing CCs except make it so much harder for non 5* players

Didgeridork

I finally have a "big boy" team this class of 2016 pvp, with nova, quake, and rhulk all champed and boosted. So functionally right about a level 400 team. And I tell ya, I'm having a blast decimating 1, 2, and 3 star rosters. You took away my cupcakes, so now my only options once I hit 900 are the same one or two champed 4/5 star rosters, or a whole plethora of 4 pt baby seals rosters.

Earlier tonight I climbed over a 100 points just hitting poor guys with rosters like this

And I'm pretty sure I only double tapped once too, because a guys gotta have some moral standards, ya know.

But come on d3, how is this any better than what we had going on before? I have 8 champed 4 stars, three 5 stars around 300, all my 3 stars champed, etc. Why am I even allowed to see rosters like the one above? Why is that guy who's been playing maybe a month tops in my mmr, when I've been playing nearly 2 years? Yet because my 5 stars are ONLY around 300 I can't queue 90% of the guys I should be matched against, unless of course they "grill" into my visibility.

It doesn't make any sense, and this change is only hurting guys like me, who outside this nicely boosted pvp, am usually the grill other teams are climbing off of, but more so the new players who are now all a lot of us can see once we reach the 900 pt threshold.

And yes, I realize that this is the beginning of the event and there are more players and points towards the end, but it's still the same concept. Instead of one or two 4/5 star rosters on repeat I might get five or six if I'm lucky

timbopp

What's 'grilling'?

nigelregal

timbopp wrote:

What's 'grilling'?

It's a version of a cupcake where you use the lowest possible team you can and still allowing others to see it on defence.

For example a roster with multiple champion 5* can do a grill of the loaner 3* character and a champion 3* or 4* and a champion 5*

Fightmastermpq

timbopp wrote:

What's 'grilling'?

We used to bake cupcakes (soft and delicious 2* teams), and brownies (slightly chewier but equally as delicious 3* teams). And some of the big boys would grill steaks - tougher, but still awfully tasty for someone with a distinguished palate (4* teams).

The recent changes to MMR prevent people from baking cakes and most brownies, but someone with 2 champed 5*s can still grill a steak consisting of a single champed 5* (or slightly lower level 5*) with a couple 3*s or a boosted 3* and a 1* or something like that. Still a tough pill to swallow for even some 4* teams, but typically a much quicker battle for 5* rosters to hop with.