Request to sliiightly tweak X-23

Dragon_Nexus

Her green. When you fire off Holding Back, have it produce strike tiles anyway. Either produce only one, or produce them at half strength.
Otherwise she's perfect.

Seriously, it's so frustrating to have to build up 9 red and 16 green before she's fully usable. She has the same hoarding issue that slows Captain Falcon down.

Nellobee

itstime1234

Nope. Not worth it

Dragon_Nexus

itstime1234 wrote:

Nope. Not worth it

How so?

OneLastGambit

I'm with you on this one. She should produce strikes right away in my opinion. The damage from her green isn't that great but the strikes are and saving up so much ap to fire them makes what looks like a fast ability actually one of the slowest in the game

udonomefoo

Agree.

Combine that with the fact that she needs strikes on the board to make the purple reasonably priced and you're really hoarding. I tried to run her with thoress, but it made the team so slow I abandoned her for IM40 after a few matches.

Dragon_Nexus

udonomefoo wrote:

Agree.

Combine that with the fact that she needs strikes on the board to make the purple reasonably priced and you're really hoarding. I tried to run her with thoress, but it made the team so slow I abandoned her for IM40 after a few matches.

I did the same thing. A lack of IM40 has made Juggernaut Heroic only more painful.
What did help was realising Scarlet Witch was boosted...so I paired her up with Ant Man and had X-23 as a way of venting any green I was storing up.
I like the character and I like her moves but as she currently stands she's just not as useful as she could be. And I don't honestly think she needs much changing to make her really good.

wymtime

X-23 can be a beast with another strike tile creator. Honestly I just use her green when it hits enough AP because storing up red is to painful. Run her with Nova or Punisher and watch her purple shine.
Of course you can also run her with OML never a bad option.

Dragon_Nexus

wymtime wrote:

X-23 can be a beast with another strike tile creator. Honestly I just use her green when it hits enough AP because storing up red is to painful. Run her with Nova or Punisher and watch her purple shine.
Of course you can also run her with OML never a bad option.

None of which I have at a decent level, sadly. I so badly want Nova covers...and Peggy covers ¬¬

I agree though, I ran her with Daken once and that was fun.

Chrono_Tata

Either this or Berserker Fury needs to be significantly stronger. Getting the condition to turn Holding Back into Berserker Fury requires quite a bit of effort and getting a couple of extra strike tiles out of it doesn't really feel worth it.

Bowgentle

She's fine.
Boosted in the Heroic, green does 10K damage.
Purple does 28K.

Automatic strike generation would set her up for the nerf bat sometime soon.

sinnerjfl

I really dislike that condition on her green as well, I'm sure it made sense on paper but when you play her in the game, it feels
very awkward to gather 9 red (that X-23 herself can't even use) before using an 8 AP ability that's best used as soon as it is
available. It's quite good as it is now though.

Possible solutions:

- Lower that red treshold to maybe 6 OR
- Make the AP needed purple instead, as it would make a lot more sense and synergise better OR
- At least make her produce the strike tiles right away when she has the 9 red AP, if need be, for slightly weaker strike tiles.

It's very silly you need to gather 9 + 8 + 8 AP to get two strike tiles on the board. You gave her an ability that gets cheaper the more strike tiles you have but she generates them at a snail's pace. Im really not sure what the logic was there.

j0nats

X-23 is funnn to use with scarlet witch. I think the build up of red is a bonus. When boosted n champed green already hits for 9k. And her trap tile is worth 15k if u match and 20+k when opponent matches. If u have switch and x23, just add another red user and you wont feel bad about building up her red

OneLastGambit

Is it really fair to say her green is good boosted? It is but she doesn't get boosted every week so that doesn't make her green that useful most of the time. Its kind of like saying that star Lord is great when boosted so he doesn't need a rework


A few simple fixes...
Lower red threshold to 5
Collect purple instead of red
Make the first use that meets criteria generate strikes.


Any of those would be a suitable fix

Bowgentle

OneLastGambit wrote:

Is it really fair to say her green is good boosted? It is but she doesn't get boosted every week so that doesn't make her green that useful most of the time. Its kind of like saying that star Lord is great when boosted so he doesn't need a rework

Yes, because eventually nobody will use any non-boosted 4*.
It's just a lot of people are a way away from that.

Polares

OneLastGambit wrote:

Make the first use that meets criteria generate strikes.

For me this one is the fix she should receive, and it will make her good without changing the spirit and intentions of the power.

- Every time you fire green, if you have 9 red, then add the strike.

I think I almost never wait to get the strike tile, it is clearly too much too when you could have killed somebody by the time you get the AP needed.

And I agree, people in general just use buffed 4s (the only unbuffed char I use sometimes in PvE is Peggy, because she is so damn good and works so well with my 5s).

Pylgrim

The thing that actually bothers me is that Berseker Fury feels like such a tiny, inconsequential upgrade for hopping through that loop, that you might as well not bother. I'd diminish slightly the damage of Holding Back and have it create strike tiles and then give a good damage upgrade to Berserker Fury.

Say, Holding Back deals 3500 damage and creates two 120 strenght strike tiles, then Berserker Fury deals 7000 damage plus 240 strenght strike tiles. Is not that much stronger than her current version, while making more enticing following her particular battleplan.

simonsez

She's fine, except the red condition on green should generate strikes the first time you use it, if the condition is met, not the next time. Are there any other abilities that have an AP condition that sets it up to work NEXT time? Feels wrong.

xidragonxi

Another thing that would be helpful is if Tracking Prey dropped a strike tile. It makes more sense, too. It gets cheaper when you have more strikes out, meaning she is "getting closer to her prey", so if it dropped a strike, then every time she uses it, she gets closer and closer. Like she's tracking prey. Also then it wouldn't feel like a total loss when your trap tile gets stuck in the corner.

Polares

simonsez wrote:

She's fine, except the red condition on green should generate strikes the first time you use it, if the condition is met, not the next time. Are there any other abilities that have an AP condition that sets it up to work NEXT time? Feels wrong.

She is the small cousin of OML. In OML's case when you have the yellow and cast black, all his powers change, but you still cast the 'old' version of black, it is the next time you fire black that is different. In the case of x23 it is just his green that changes, but it is the exact same mechanic.

The difference of course is that x23 green varies just a little bit, while OML powers vary A LOT. If x23 green would go from 4k to 8k+strike tile, then that would certainly motivate us to wait until we got the red, because the next time you would cast green it would be much much stronger. But even in OML's case, most people don't bother about transforming him, so imagine with x23 when she just adds a strike tile to the next time you fire the power...

Dragon_Nexus

sinnerjfl wrote:

I really dislike that condition on her green as well, I'm sure it made sense on paper but when you play her in the game, it feels
very awkward to gather 9 red (that X-23 herself can't even use) before using an 8 AP ability that's best used as soon as it is
available. It's quite good as it is now though.

Possible solutions:

- Lower that red treshold to maybe 6 OR
- Make the AP needed purple instead, as it would make a lot more sense and synergise better OR
- At least make her produce the strike tiles right away when she has the 9 red AP, if need be, for slightly weaker strike tiles.

It's very silly you need to gather 9 + 8 + 8 AP to get two strike tiles on the board. You gave her an ability that gets cheaper the more strike tiles you have but she generates them at a snail's pace. Im really not sure what the logic was there.

This is a good list of ideas.
I'm definitely in favour of the first fire of her freen producing strike tiles if the conditions are met. She's clearly designed as a speedy character, getting attacks in quickly, laying down strike tiles two at a time...but her start up is insanely slow for that purpose. You need 9 red then you need to gather 16 green to *start* putting down tiles. Then another 8 green for every two more. To get her purple down to the lowest price unassisted you'd need 9 red and 32 green and by that point you've won anyway if she's boosted. That's not really that speedy.

Like I said, I think her current damage and such makes sense for a speedy character, she just needs her prerequisites changed just a little in one way or another.

compare her to Psylocke. Her red has lower damage but makes strike tiles and gets cheaper with up to three strike tiles. And then there's Iron Fist who's green is basically the same thing, except he produces 2 strike tiles at rest or 4 if the prerequisites are met. And Nova's all about the speedy moves laying down strike tiles.
Those characters give a sense of speed and a reward for firing the moves off. X-23 requires far too much build up.