Time to deal with the next greatest threat to the game

apmonte

alphabeta wrote:

Second page and no one has come out in support of OP.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and support the OP's position that buyers clubs should be done away with. The best way to do that would be that when you spend $99 on HP or ISO, you're given the option to hoard the 140CP yourself, or to share it with your alliance. This would do away with the need for buyers clubs by providing more value and options for your purchase. It might also substantially increase the number of $99 purchases. Thanks for bringing this up OP.

Huatimus

Where's the dude who was complaining about cartels or collusion among heavy hitting rosters? I would have expected him to raise his pitch fork for this next greatest threat to the game. If he thinks shield hopping or cupcakes equal cartels, I can't wait to see what he thinks of buy clubs?

HaywireII

I spend my money in my alliance but I have nothing against people doing the buy club thing. If you are going to spend money who can fault you for maximizing your return on investment? Like someone else pointed out it encourages other people to spend to get into the club so it keeps the game running.

tizian2015

gigatilburg29 wrote:

Be thankful for the people who pay for this game, of it werent for them we all wouldnt playing right now.

Well, but paying for overpriced offers means, they (devs) do not think about more realistic prices. So some will spend much money and many will spend nothing. I was spending money until I realised how overpriced the shop is. And when the some think, the party is over... then the party is over. Bad concept in my opinion.

simonsez

Am I the only one who assumed the original post was satire?

alphabeta

apmonte wrote:

alphabeta wrote:

Second page and no one has come out in support of OP.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and support the OP's position that buyers clubs should be done away with. The best way to do that would be that when you spend $99 on HP or ISO, you're given the option to hoard the 140CP yourself, or to share it with your alliance. This would do away with the need for buyers clubs by providing more value and options for your purchase. It might also substantially increase the number of $99 purchases. Thanks for bringing this up OP.

That's actually not the OPs point if you reread it - he makes no suggestion to change the economics merely remove the group element - your suggestion would eliminate the need for buyers clubs because it would mean everyone gets more for there individual investment.

But assume d3/Demi sees no need to change the economic model and therefore your choices are spend $99 and get 7 cp and your alliance also get 7 each for doing nothing or join a buyers club and spend $99 and get 140 cp - do you support removal of buyers clubs if those are the only two options?

As an aside calling this the greatest threat to the game when we have bracket sniping is beyond meladromatic - where does the OP stand on bracket sniping? That's rewards for far less effort than everyone else - let's have ability to join events after they've started removed then we can talk about other QOL improvements - buyers clubs aren't even close to the size of issue made out here

Quebbster

tizian2015 wrote:

gigatilburg29 wrote:

Be thankful for the people who pay for this game, of it werent for them we all wouldnt playing right now.

Well, but paying for overpriced offers means, they (devs) do not think about more realistic prices. So some will spend much money and many will spend nothing. I was spending money until I realised how overpriced the shop is. And when the some think, the party is over... then the party is over. Bad concept in my opinion.

If players take the offer, is it truly overpriced?

deadtaco

alphabeta wrote:

How out there mist you be

carrion_pigeons

Merrick wrote:

Now that the scourge of cupcakes has been dealt with, it is time for D3 to tackle the true scourge of the game.

You know of what I am speaking. An evil that resonates so thoroughly through the game and allows people regardless of the strength of their roster to advance and progress at a rate well beyond what they might otherwise be able to achieve.

Iso! Get rid of Iso, I agree! Then everyone will be equal!

carrion_pigeons

Quebbster wrote:

If players take the offer, is it truly overpriced?

Yes. It's called a bubble, and it happens all the time.

Nick441234

gigatilburg29 wrote:

Be thankful for the people who pay for this game, of it werent for them we all wouldnt playing right now.

Exactly that. I bought a little bit when I first started and now renew the VIP each month but clearly that goes no way towards allowing this game to be free for us. Its the big spenders that make this game free for us.

I just accept that I'll never be in competition with those people, and I'm fine with that. I get plenty of enjoyment from my mainly 3* roster and my 6 usable 4*s. I'll progress slowly but I'll at least be able to play the game for as little as I want due to the big spenders.

Astralgazer

Huatimus wrote:

Where's the dude who was complaining about cartels or collusion among heavy hitting rosters? I would have expected him to raise his pitch fork for this next greatest threat to the game. If he thinks shield hopping or cupcakes equal cartels, I can't wait to see what he thinks of buy clubs?

You mean me? Can we have decorum in the forum? (It rhymes, I like!)

But unfortunately I have to let you down. I don't have anything against buyers' clubs. It is very hard for developers to come up with any monetization scheme that doesn't involve P2W. There are only a handful of developers who succeed in pulling this off. One of this select few is Grinding Gear Games, the proud makers of Path of Exile. There are whales in the game, but everything you see in-game is gained only through blood, sweat and tears. GGG pays very close, even meticulous, attention that no-one can buy their way to victory. I'm one of the lesser supporters of GGG, so I know this to be true. And their scheme is profitable, one marketing session can net them USD 500k; and they have 3-4 sessions annually.

But I know how hard it is to do what GGG does. And when a developer makes a scheme that allows paying players to gain much, I understand. As long as the gameplay is not marred by this monetization scheme, I'm okay with that. We don't need to regulate buyers' clubs. We need to ensure that even though they have money to buy their strength, they are not allowed to buy unfair fights.

DarkWalkerWP

Merrick wrote:

Now that the scourge of cupcakes has been dealt with, it is time for D3 to tackle the true scourge of the game.

You know of what I am speaking. An evil that resonates so thoroughly through the game and allows people regardless of the strength of their roster to advance and progress at a rate well beyond what they might otherwise be able to achieve.

I am of course talking of buyers clubs. People, some of whom have only played for a few days, being granted what for a normal player would be weeks worth of CPs.

Obviously this should be a huge concern. If they were worried of a small percentage of the players getting 25 CP an event, what must they think of people getting 140 CP at a time?

The biggest issue in this game is the lag. Buyers clubs support the game and keep it going for those of you who spend nothing and **** on the forums that everything isn't to your liking.

JVReal

I think eliminating Buy Clubs would change the CP economy drastically.

Currently I could play 5 PVE's (4 day events) and earn the same CP as joining a Buy Club and spending $100 (roughly). (1 CP valued at $0.71)

If a person decides to earn for 'free' what they can buy for $100 they have to play for approximately 3 weeks.

If they eliminate the advantages of a buy club, and $100 only gets you 7 CP... You can currently earn that just by hitting the CP nodes in the current 4 day PVE and not even make progression. $100 or play minimally for 4 days? Free will likely win out every time.

This means they will have decreased the incentive to buy CP, and increased the incentive to get it for free. It's only free and readily available in PVE because CP is so readily purchasable. If you reduce the amount of CP that is purchasable by 95%, then based on the new value of CP... they would have to reduce the CP available for free by 95%. Good bye 1CP nodes... that's giving away $14.29 for free! Good bye 25CP free max progression... that's $357 of CP for free! You know they won't drop the cost of anything that you have to spend CP to buy, so progression, even though it is RNG, would virtually stop... with the exception of whales. They would still be the only ones who could still progress.

By stopping the "buy clubs" in an attempt to stop paying players from having an 'unfair' advantage over free players you could possibly be doing the opposite and eliminating the ability for 'free' players to progress to 5* tier, and close it off to only those that can buy 7 CP at a time for $100 a pop.

Merrick

Wow

Obviously I am not as good at writing satire as I thought. I meant it to be an obvious joke thread meant to cast a dim light on the decision to end cupcakes (which was not successful - it only changed cupcakes to brownies with lots of nuts).

I have been in a few buy clubs and have spent money supporting the game.

And pylgrim - I'll release my net worth if you do. I bet I'm farther from the 99% than you.

Pylgrim

Merrick wrote:

Wow

Obviously I am not as good at writing satire as I thought. I meant it to be an obvious joke thread meant to cast a dim light on the decision to end cupcakes (which was not successful - it only changed cupcakes to brownies with lots of nuts).

I have been in a few buy clubs and have spent money supporting the game.

And pylgrim - I'll release my net worth if you do. I bet I'm farther from the 99% than you.

You are either terrible at satire or too good. I obviously retire my comment with my apologies.

mpqr7

It seemed too true to be seen as satire. Don't worry, it happens sometimes!!

Next time, add in some smileys!

Piro_plock

JVReal wrote:

I think eliminating Buy Clubs would change the CP economy drastically.

Currently I could play 5 PVE's (4 day events) and earn the same CP as joining a Buy Club and spending $100 (roughly). (1 CP valued at $0.71)

If a person decides to earn for 'free' what they can buy for $100 they have to play for approximately 3 weeks.

If they eliminate the advantages of a buy club, and $100 only gets you 7 CP... You can currently earn that just by hitting the CP nodes in the current 4 day PVE and not even make progression. $100 or play minimally for 4 days? Free will likely win out every time.

This means they will have decreased the incentive to buy CP, and increased the incentive to get it for free. It's only free and readily available in PVE because CP is so readily purchasable. If you reduce the amount of CP that is purchasable by 95%, then based on the new value of CP... they would have to reduce the CP available for free by 95%. Good bye 1CP nodes... that's giving away $14.29 for free! Good bye 25CP free max progression... that's $357 of CP for free! You know they won't drop the cost of anything that you have to spend CP to buy, so progression, even though it is RNG, would virtually stop... with the exception of whales. They would still be the only ones who could still progress.

By stopping the "buy clubs" in an attempt to stop paying players from having an 'unfair' advantage over free players you could possibly be doing the opposite and eliminating the ability for 'free' players to progress to 5* tier, and close it off to only those that can buy 7 CP at a time for $100 a pop.

I think you're completely wrong. Legendary Tokens and 5* were supposed to be impossible-to-buy rewards for gameplay. Only after CP (and the option to get them as a bonus for purchasing HP/ISO) were introduced, the game economy has undergone a massive shift.
You're not buying CP, you're buying HP or ISO. CP is and always was marked as a bonus. Of course everyone knows the real incentive for buy clubs is CP, but no way the devs would eliminate CPs from their intended place in the game - a REWARD.

Polares

Merrick wrote:

Wow

Obviously I am not as good at writing satire as I thought. I meant it to be an obvious joke thread meant to cast a dim light on the decision to end cupcakes (which was not successful - it only changed cupcakes to brownies with lots of nuts).

I have been in a few buy clubs and have spent money supporting the game.

And pylgrim - I'll release my net worth if you do. I bet I'm farther from the 99% than you.

The problem with your comment is that, even though it was not your intention, there is some truth to it. Any competitive game where you can buy your way to victory has always a lot of problems. It also doesn't help when Devs remove the ability to buy individual covers with HP and they assures us that 5s won't be buyable to just change their mind, introduce CPs and the +7 alliance CP when paying 100$ (that was NOT a cool move at all).

This is why in 'serious' games like League of Legends, Dota2, SF, Overwatch, etc. you have in-game purchases but it NEVER gives you any competitive advantage, just skins, and nice shaders.

This is obviously not the worst problem this game has, and it is already too late to fix anything so as long as they keep the servers working I guess it is alright, but your satire was not good enough because it was partially true!

JVReal

Piro_plock wrote:

JVReal wrote:

I think eliminating Buy Clubs would change the CP economy drastically.

Currently I could play 5 PVE's (4 day events) and earn the same CP as joining a Buy Club and spending $100 (roughly). (1 CP valued at $0.71)

If a person decides to earn for 'free' what they can buy for $100 they have to play for approximately 3 weeks.

If they eliminate the advantages of a buy club, and $100 only gets you 7 CP... You can currently earn that just by hitting the CP nodes in the current 4 day PVE and not even make progression. $100 or play minimally for 4 days? Free will likely win out every time.

This means they will have decreased the incentive to buy CP, and increased the incentive to get it for free. It's only free and readily available in PVE because CP is so readily purchasable. If you reduce the amount of CP that is purchasable by 95%, then based on the new value of CP... they would have to reduce the CP available for free by 95%. Good bye 1CP nodes... that's giving away $14.29 for free! Good bye 25CP free max progression... that's $357 of CP for free! You know they won't drop the cost of anything that you have to spend CP to buy, so progression, even though it is RNG, would virtually stop... with the exception of whales. They would still be the only ones who could still progress.

By stopping the "buy clubs" in an attempt to stop paying players from having an 'unfair' advantage over free players you could possibly be doing the opposite and eliminating the ability for 'free' players to progress to 5* tier, and close it off to only those that can buy 7 CP at a time for $100 a pop.

I think you're completely wrong. Legendary Tokens and 5* were supposed to be impossible-to-buy rewards for gameplay. Only after CP (and the option to get them as a bonus for purchasing HP/ISO) were introduced, the game economy has undergone a massive shift.
You're not buying CP, you're buying HP or ISO. CP is and always was marked as a bonus. Of course everyone knows the real incentive for buy clubs is CP, but no way the devs would eliminate CPs from their intended place in the game - a REWARD.

I agree with you. LT's should have remained a reward, not given an electronic currency value, and that electronic currency value should have never been given a monetary value. But it has. They can't revert back to token only, without upsetting a whole lot of stuff. My point is, they've introduced it, they've set the precedent, and now it's too late to do much about it without totally screwing stuff up.