They do listen

OneLastGambit

Ok so I just read the flame wars thread and thought to myself "do they have a point?"

Is it really 2 steps forward 1 back?

So let's see what complaints we've had since I started playing a year ago...

Not enough iso - addressed and fixing
Crit boosts - addressed and fixed
Appropriate rewards - addressed and fixing
Certain characters are poor - addressed and fixing
Progress is too much rng - addressed and fixing
Lack of new content - kind of addressed and fixed
Lack of communication - addressed and fixing
Too much of a time sink - addressed and fixed
Too much scheduled play - addressed and fixed


This is just off the top of my head, I'm sure there's more than this. All these issues (some big ones too) have either been fixed or are in the process of being fixed and crucially...THEY WERE ALL REQUESTED BY US.

Do they listen? I think an argument can be made that they are. I'm not saying all praise the mighty d3 gods, I'm saying stop with the flaming. Its not helping anything, at least be constructive and appreciate that things are improving. One of the most common complaints following the nerfs of xfw and Thor was "make small changes then if the effect is negative it's not as pronounced and more reversible" this is exactly what they are doing.

Quebbster

Well said. It grinds my gears a bit whenever the devs announce a change and immediately someone goes "Not good enough!" Baby steps, people... I feel the quality of the game has increased significantly lately.

Bowgentle

OneLastGambit wrote:

Progress is too much rng - addressed and fixing

Please show me how the way they introduced to get a specific 5* cover reliably outside of saving up 720 CP.

My 2/6/6 Phoenix will be eternally grateful.

OneLastGambit

Bowgentle wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

Progress is too much rng - addressed and fixing

Please show me how the way they introduced to get a specific 5* cover reliably outside of saving up 720 CP.

My 2/6/6 Phoenix will be eternally grateful.

If you read my sentence entirely instead reading it how you want to read it you'll see it says fixING not fixed. Will clearance level 8-10 fix this issue? I suspect it might.

But of course because the changes didn't happen right now and Grant you instant access to untold riches it's not good enough right? Patience is a valuable quality in life and sometimes I feel as though this forum could develop some....

Polares

OneLastGambit wrote:

Do they listen? I think an argument can be made that they are. I'm not saying all praise the mighty d3 gods, I'm saying stop with the flaming. Its not helping anything, at least be constructive and appreciate that things are improving. One of the most common complaints following the nerfs of xfw and Thor was "make small changes then if the effect is negative it's not as pronounced and more reversible" this is exactly what they are doing.

I think you are right, maybe a bit too generous with some of the fixes you mentioned, bu it is obvious Devs are trying. It is painfully slow sometimes, and things like the lag bug (and other bugs introduced lately) don't help AT ALL, but it might be because it is a small team (but I still think the testing is not good enough).

Progression for 2s to 4s rosters have been improved a lot, but not for 5 rosters that are not super whales (it might look like they don't want to lose the revenue derived from all those buying clubs that form to get 5s). So in my particular case, iso has improved, but the delay of CL8-10 has been a big problem for me. The game is still stalled for me, I keep getting 4s I don't really care about, and I don't get enough 5s so the game can have some variety and I don't need to use OML+PH everywhere. Interestingly enough If I could level my 4s to the 310-320 range I would be able to use them instead of 5s, but this is also a very slow process. I hope the extra cover for a 4 in PvE can help a bit with this.

So I am basically hopeful for the future, but I am also worried it might be too late for me.

DFiPL

Bowgentle wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

Progress is too much rng - addressed and fixing

Please show me how the way they introduced to get a specific 5* cover reliably outside of saving up 720 CP.

My 2/6/6 Phoenix will be eternally grateful.

5

5* coverage was always intended to be RNG. Maybe more so than any other tier. I mean, they kind of mooted that when they made CP available in such ways as made "buyer's clubs" a thing, but 5* being RNG-driven strikes me as the ultimate in 'working as intended.'

simonsez

OneLastGambit wrote:

Bowgentle wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

Progress is too much rng - addressed and fixing

Please show me how the way they introduced to get a specific 5* cover reliably outside of saving up 720 CP.

My 2/6/6 Phoenix will be eternally grateful.

If you read my sentence entirely instead reading it how you want to read it you'll see it says fixING not fixed. Will clearance level 8-10 fix this issue? I suspect it might.

But of course because the changes didn't happen right now and Grant you instant access to untold riches it's not good enough right? Patience is a valuable quality in life and sometimes I feel as though this forum could develop some....

There's a difference between patience for things that have been promised, and just making **** up

OneLastGambit

simonsez wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

Bowgentle wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

Progress is too much rng - addressed and fixing

Please show me how the way they introduced to get a specific 5* cover reliably outside of saving up 720 CP.

My 2/6/6 Phoenix will be eternally grateful.

If you read my sentence entirely instead reading it how you want to read it you'll see it says fixING not fixed. Will clearance level 8-10 fix this issue? I suspect it might.

But of course because the changes didn't happen right now and Grant you instant access to untold riches it's not good enough right? Patience is a valuable quality in life and sometimes I feel as though this forum could develop some....

There's a difference between patience for things that have been promised, and just making tinykitty up

Could you clarify what I or the devs have made up ?

Which items have been promised and then not delivered?

Phumade

The developers are doing a decent job, but customer service has gotten worse.
In the last year since you've been playing.
1. Character deconstruction and account merger fiasco. Still have no idea what criteria qualifies for character deconstruction.
2. R104-109 game crashes. At least a 1000hp lost to replacing boosts, health etc... No response from multiple tickets submitted.


I listened to the puzzlewarrior podcast, and the developers come off as relatively thoughtful and fully enganged in the design process and in the health of the game. I see areas and issues that I disagree with, but at least I can see their thought process and how they arrived at their solution.

Everytime I see a CS interaction, its usually
"We are unable to provide the eligibility requirements for the service, as it is against our policy." Which is basically code for, you don't spend enough money to warrant service and support, or we messed up internally on our processes and we won't own up to that fact publicly or transparently.

If the last few days has demonstrated anything, being open and transparent about your motives and processes goes along way to defusing and resolving tensions and concerns.

OneLastGambit

Polares wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

Do they listen? I think an argument can be made that they are. I'm not saying all praise the mighty d3 gods, I'm saying stop with the flaming. Its not helping anything, at least be constructive and appreciate that things are improving. One of the most common complaints following the nerfs of xfw and Thor was "make small changes then if the effect is negative it's not as pronounced and more reversible" this is exactly what they are doing.

I think you are right, maybe a bit too generous with some of the fixes you mentioned, bu it is obvious Devs are trying. It is painfully slow sometimes, and things like the lag bug (and other bugs introduced lately) don't help AT ALL, but it might be because it is a small team (but I still think the testing is not good enough).

Progression for 2s to 4s rosters have been improved a lot, but not for 5 rosters that are not super whales (it might look like they don't want to lose the revenue derived from all those buying clubs that form to get 5s). So in my particular case, iso has improved, but the delay of CL8-10 has been a big problem for me. The game is still stalled for me, I keep getting 4s I don't really care about, and I don't get enough 5s so the game can have some variety and I don't need to use OML+PH everywhere. Interestingly enough If I could level my 4s to the 310-320 range I would be able to use them instead of 5s, but this is also a very slow process. I hope the extra cover for a 4 in PvE can help a bit with this.

So I am basically hopeful for the future, but I am also worried it might be too late for me.

I can agree with what you say here, for people at your level it's Perhaps not moving quite fast enough but most of the changes are still in their infancy which explains the slow speed. Its good to see someone willing to accept that while it's not entirely as quick as they'd would like changes are being made and I believe they are being made with both good intent and with player focus.

simonsez

OneLastGambit wrote:

Could you clarify what I made up ?

Obviously the part I quoted. How about you clarify what part of the devs' plans involving making progress less random?

Fightmastermpq

OneLastGambit wrote:

All these issues (some big ones too) have either been fixed or are in the process of being fixed and crucially...THEY WERE ALL REQUESTED BY US.

I completely disagree. Here is my take on it.....

Not enough iso - improved
Crit boosts - improved
Appropriate rewards - improving
Certain characters are poor - improved, with what seems like intentions to continue to improve
Progress is too much rng - worsened substantially
Lack of new content - no change
Lack of communication - worsened
Too much of a time sink - no change
Too much scheduled play - slightly improved

If you are going to start people at Rank 65 you need to have a clearance level that supports Rank 65. CL7 now appears to be better than what it was though, so CL8-10 can likely only get even better, which is nice.

A little over a year ago there were no 5*s, and you could purchase covers directly with HP. Adding 5*s, nerfing HP, expanding the 4* tier, and diluting the classic LT pool have all swung the game significantly more toward RNG-based progression.

I won't make any comments on communication because I'd like to maintain my ability to continue posting on these forums. A respected user was banned for calling attention to a bug. I'll leave it at that.

The 8h refresh moving to 24h is a huge improvement for the casual/progression only PvE player, but competitive PvE I think is a little worse. Sure you don't have to clear as frequently, but you MUST clear IMMEDIATELY when the sub opens absolutely as quickly as possible, with zero room for error or you miss out on T5 and maybe even T10.

Remember when they were testing PvE and told us about the 20 pt minimum nodes and within 5 minutes we immediately that it would be terrible because people would gain a huge advantage by just grinding the easiest node for 20 points all day? And then they proceeded with it anyway, and it was exactly as terrible as we said it would be? They might listen to what we want, but are not receptive to any feedback regarding how changes in mechanics will perceived by the player-base. They clearing don't understand how their mechanics alter the meta - it's why cupcakes existed in the first place.

Crowl

DFiPL wrote:

5* coverage was always intended to be RNG. Maybe more so than any other tier. I mean, they kind of mooted that when they made CP available in such ways as made "buyer's clubs" a thing, but 5* being RNG-driven strikes me as the ultimate in 'working as intended.'

Working as intended or not it is a truly horrible design decision on their part, they need to drop colours from the rarest covers and there needs to be some mechanism in place to minimise the impact of the rng hating you as far as actually drawing one at all when your only real way to progress is to hope you draw a 5* from your LT's.

You could have a general counter for 5*'s so that if you go 10 LT's in a row without one then your next one is assured to be a 5* and for specific characters you could have a larger counter (say 40-50 range) to ensure that if people play long enough they will eventually get the covers.

GrumpySmurf1002

Fightmastermpq wrote:

If you are going to start people at Rank 65 you need to have a clearance level that supports Rank 65. The PvP rewards are a step down from what we had.

With the CP upgraded back to 25CP today, they're no longer really a step down, IMO. That was really the only killer. Iso is improved, HP is static, 2* cover replaced with an Elite token (so 2.25).

The placement rewards are a bit baffling below T50, but top 5 getting 4*+3x3*, T25 getting 3x3* are improvements. The option to slide to CL6 to get 2x3* from progression instead of a low tier 4* is an ok trade off.

Shield Sim CL7 no longer having a bunch of 1* covers is also good, as is 3x3* in the Season progression.

There's work to be done there (probably in the form of CL8), but overall the only real knock was the CP, which it seems is fixed.

Fightmastermpq

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Fightmastermpq wrote:

If you are going to start people at Rank 65 you need to have a clearance level that supports Rank 65. The PvP rewards are a step down from what we had.

With the CP upgraded back to 25CP today, they're no longer really a step down, IMO. That was really the only killer. Iso is improved, HP is static, 2* cover replaced with an Elite token (so 2.25).

The placement rewards are a bit baffling below T50, but top 5 getting 4*+3x3*, T25 getting 3x3* are improvements. The option to slide to CL6 to get 2x3* from progression instead of a low tier 4* is an ok trade off.

Shield Sim CL7 no longer having a bunch of 1* covers is also good, as is 3x3* in the Season progression.

There's work to be done there (probably in the form of CL8), but overall the only real knock was the CP, which it seems is fixed.

Obviously I wrote that before they fixed it, and I have to agree that rewards are improving at this point. I still maintain that if they were to roll out level 65 ranks they should have rolled out level 65 rewards too.

OneLastGambit

simonsez wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

Could you clarify what I made up ?

Obviously the part I quoted. How about you clarify what part of the devs' plans involving making progress less random?

Fair enough, how about adding more covers into progression at every level except 5* This reducing Reliance On cp pulls and tokens. As for 5* (which I assume you are moaning about) has the clearance levels been rolled out properly yet? Nope. Could it possibly contain the answer to your gripe? Yes. Did I mention. That previously? Yes. Did you read it? Nope. You just confirmation biased your day through all my responses pitch fork in hand ready to start fires. Again...perhaps some patience might have avoided that.

simonsez

OneLastGambit wrote:

simonsez wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

Could you clarify what I made up ?

Obviously the part I quoted. How about you clarify what part of the devs' plans involving making progress less random?

Fair enough, how about adding more covers into progression at every level except 5* This reducing Reliance On cp pulls and tokens. As for 5* (which I assume you are moaning about).

Calling you out for making **** up isn't moaning.

And anyone who's talking "progress" and "rng, obviously is talking about 5*s. Except you, I guess.

OneLastGambit

Fightmastermpq wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

All these issues (some big ones too) have either been fixed or are in the process of being fixed and crucially...THEY WERE ALL REQUESTED BY US.

I completely disagree. Here is my take on it.....

Not enough iso - improved
Crit boosts - improved
Appropriate rewards - improving
Certain characters are poor - improved, with what seems like intentions to continue to improve
Progress is too much rng - worsened substantially
Lack of new content - no change
Lack of communication - worsened
Too much of a time sink - no change
Too much scheduled play - slightly improved

If you are going to start people at Rank 65 you need to have a clearance level that supports Rank 65. CL7 now appears to be better than what it was though, so CL8-10 can likely only get even better, which is nice.

A little over a year ago there were no 5*s, and you could purchase covers directly with HP. Adding 5*s, nerfing HP, expanding the 4* tier, and diluting the classic LT pool have all swung the game significantly more toward RNG-based progression.

I won't make any comments on communication because I'd like to maintain my ability to continue posting on these forums. A respected user was banned for calling attention to a bug. I'll leave it at that.

The 8h refresh moving to 24h is a huge improvement for the casual/progression only PvE player, but competitive PvE I think is a little worse. Sure you don't have to clear as frequently, but you MUST clear IMMEDIATELY when the sub opens absolutely as quickly as possible, with zero room for error or you miss out on T5 and maybe even T10.

Remember when they were testing PvE and told us about the 20 pt minimum nodes and within 5 minutes we immediately that it would be terrible because people would gain a huge advantage by just grinding the easiest node for 20 points all day? And then they proceeded with it anyway, and it was exactly as terrible as we said it would be? They might listen to what we want, but are not receptive to any feedback regarding how changes in mechanics will perceived by the player-base. They clearing don't understand how their mechanics alter the meta - it's why cupcakes existed in the first place.

They did state that was a test and no test can be confirmed until you get results. That's a little unfair.

As for time sink? Id argue that's way better now. I don't have to spend 4 hours in pve anynore, even less so now the 4* that I usually aimed for is a progression which is a very easy to obtain with 3 of the least perfect clears known to man. Competitively you could argue it is worse I'll give you that.

They have shown intent to try and improve every aspect of the game which we have complained about so far. That is the sign of people listening. The forum however does not, the devs and mods consistently ask for civility and constructive feedback (this is not the same as flaming) yet constantly get abuse. Who doesn't listen to whom?

I never said they fixed the whole game, I simple said that they do And are listening. Instead of rage flaming them we should be making what we say is worth listening to and getting rid of all the emotional hyperbole.

GrumpySmurf1002

Fightmastermpq wrote:

Obviously I wrote that before they fixed it, and I have to agree that rewards are improving at this point. I still maintain that if they were to roll out level 65 ranks they should have rolled out level 65 rewards too.

Problem there is what "level 65" really meant. My roster and <name redacted but you know who> were both rank 65 at the outset. Need wise, there's nothing comparable. Players in my alliance with weaker rosters were also 65. That's a broad scope to satisfy all without flooding the bottom of the bell curve.

The biggest need (beyond non-RNG 5* progression) is still Iso more than anything. From what I've seen from my own numbers, that's been addressed decently for CL7, even before factoring in the 30k Rank rewards popping up every-so-often.

I have faith that's going to continue to improve, as I think we've seen enough positive lately to recognize that swapping the Lead Designer for the game may have been a game-changer for the players. Not everything's a home run of course, but it's slowly improving.

OneLastGambit

simonsez wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

simonsez wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

Could you clarify what I made up ?

Obviously the part I quoted. How about you clarify what part of the devs' plans involving making progress less random?

Fair enough, how about adding more covers into progression at every level except 5* This reducing Reliance On cp pulls and tokens. As for 5* (which I assume you are moaning about).

Calling you out for making tinykitty up isn't moaning.

And anyone who's talking "progress" and "rng, obviously is talking about 5*s. Except you, I guess.

I didn't make anything up? I simply said that the higher clearance levels will maybe address the issue about which you're complaining. Surely you can agree that may be the case? And since I'm quite a nice guy when I talk about progress and changes for the players benefit I consider everyone, not just my own personal circumstances. Give it a go, you might find people like it.

simonsez

OneLastGambit wrote:

I didn't make anything up? I simply said that the higher clearance levels will maybe address the issue about which you're complaining. Surely you can agree that may be the case?

And maybe one day you'll stop mindlessly white-knighting.

Why you think clearance levels would have anything to do with token redemption is otherwise pretty mystifying.