If they're going to make us lose ISO for skips......

Unknown

....then they shoud give extra ISO for having to fight someone with less than 10 points. The 3 fights I have availible are 9,9, and 7 points. Ridiculous. If I get AI cascaded they I could lose 20 or more points and if I skip there is no guarantee of fighting someone for more points and I've lost ISO.

Unknown

They should just remove retaliation. I wouldn't mind chipping away at those low point teams, even if it takes a lot of time and costs a huge amount of points in case you fail. It's the almost guaranteed retaliation that keeps me away from it, next to nobody will pass up the chance for big points when they've got next to nothing to lose.

Unknown

i agree, it sucks to fight someone for just 15, then a hour later get hit for 35. in the last few hours of a lot of fights i get hit for way more than i can ever recover

Unknown

kevind722 wrote:

....then they shoud give extra ISO for having to fight someone with less than 10 points. The 3 fights I have availible are 9,9, and 7 points. Ridiculous. If I get AI cascaded they I could lose 20 or more points and if I skip there is no guarantee of fighting someone for more points and I've lost ISO.

We noted quite a few times that in sake of fairness game offers under some number (15 ideal, 10 working) skip should be free and not counted. That would address most of the retal problem too. I didn't see even as much note it gets considered.

Moral

Obviously not everyone remembers the days before shields and skip taxes.

You could step away from the game or get bogged down in a fight and the same player would use skip to farm you 6 times in 20 minutes for over 200 points.

Moral

pasa_ wrote:

kevind722 wrote:

....then they shoud give extra ISO for having to fight someone with less than 10 points. The 3 fights I have availible are 9,9, and 7 points. Ridiculous. If I get AI cascaded they I could lose 20 or more points and if I skip there is no guarantee of fighting someone for more points and I've lost ISO.

We noted quite a few times that in sake of fairness game offers under some number (15 ideal, 10 working) skip should be free and not counted. That would address most of the retal problem too. I didn't see even as much note it gets considered.

They considered that idea (limited free). The number was 4.

Instead they went with bonus ISO for non/limited use and a tax for overuse.

over_clocked

Some people are still able to target one and the same person 3-4 times in a row, how do they do that, skip repeatedly? I'm not gonna do that myself, just genuinely curious.

Moral

When you get into "MMR 'hell" you get stuck seeing the same 5-6 unshielded players. If they're all lower, you get the situation of the OP. Then you're only looking at a couple skips to bring up the same person. You usually don't get to that point until over 600 or higher.

I had numerous tournaments that a late joiner 400 points below me had a team that was extremely effective against mine. I could track that persons progression from 200 to 600 when I logged in. That method required well over a dozen skips between fights.

Watching 1 person drop you from 700+ to 350 in 20 minutes wasn't fair either.

over_clocked

Yeah well why would they be content with MMR hell? They have a team strong enough to beat any opponent but choose to pick on weaker teams several times. And risking retaliation at that, clever.
(I'm okay with once, I'm okay with two times if you are that lucky and get me twice in your queue, but purposeful hunting for me? What the heck did you do to your game?)
It has been said many times but I feel it needs to be said again, implement a feature that does not allow anyone see one and the same team 2+ times during, say, 30 minutes interval.

Moral

At some point you will be the highest ranked player in your MMR.

If you're upset that you cannot find anyone worth more points but you tank to find easier matches, then you're making an effort not to fight matches against higher ranked players.

I'm perfectly happy if a player wants to up his MMR to find more matches, there should be a button to do that.

Unknown

Moral wrote:

At some point you will be the highest ranked player in your MMR.

If you're upset that you cannot find anyone worth more points but you tank to find easier matches, then you're making an effort not to fight matches against higher ranked players.

I'm perfectly happy if a player wants to up his MMR to find more matches, there should be a button to do that.

Yep! Tanking provides an advantage up to a point (500ish) but you can definitely hamstring yourself by doing it too much. Late in a tourney, you're no longer facing teams who are scared off by yours (a good 2* team can still drop a heavy on offense, especially if they're willing to spend some boosts for a +39 jump) because your MMR is creeping up during your climb. It's very easy to end up in a situation where you have to shield and ride out the rest, or deal with +12, -37, +14, - 42, etc...

It's all still about who you choose to attack and when.

Unknown

Moral wrote:

At some point you will be the highest ranked player in your MMR.

If you're upset that you cannot find anyone worth more points but you tank to find easier matches, then you're making an effort not to fight matches against higher ranked players.

I'm perfectly happy if a player wants to up his MMR to find more matches, there should be a button to do that.

I like the idea but I can already hear the elite complaining about some idiot with a level 70 team finding them for a loss of 40 points. (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

Unknown

walkyourpath wrote:

Moral wrote:

At some point you will be the highest ranked player in your MMR.

If you're upset that you cannot find anyone worth more points but you tank to find easier matches, then you're making an effort not to fight matches against higher ranked players.

I'm perfectly happy if a player wants to up his MMR to find more matches, there should be a button to do that.

Yep! Tanking provides an advantage up to a point (500ish) but you can definitely hamstring yourself by doing it too much. Late in a tourney, you're no longer facing teams who are scared off by yours (a good 2* team can still drop a heavy on offense, especially if they're willing to spend some boosts for a +39 jump) because your MMR is creeping up during your climb. It's very easy to end up in a situation where you have to shield and ride out the rest, or deal with +12, -37, +14, - 42, etc...

It's all still about who you choose to attack and when.

+1

Unknown

locked wrote:

Yeah well why would they be content with MMR hell? They have a team strong enough to beat any opponent but choose to pick on weaker teams several times. And risking retaliation at that, clever.
(I'm okay with once, I'm okay with two times if you are that lucky and get me twice in your queue, but purposeful hunting for me? What the heck did you do to your game?)

If they indeed see just a handful of matches and your happen to be the easiest to win obviously they will pick that one. That part makes perfect sense. And you should not take it personally.

The one that doesn't is that the often requested cooldown timer is still not in the system -- it would prevent the situation for good. And the formula *could* be such that always finds some matches for you, not limit to so few -- simplest backup plan is to drag in shielded people after all. With the cooldown it would not be a trivial exploit not allowing everyone to bash the same shielded bagman team even us it was smuggled in somehow.

locked wrote:

It has been said many times but I feel it needs to be said again, implement a feature that does not allow anyone see one and the same team 2+ times during, say, 30 minutes interval.

Let's try the Andy Dufresne tactics, it might work in a few years really.

Unknown

Moral wrote:

When you get into "MMR 'hell" you get stuck seeing the same 5-6 unshielded players. If they're all lower, you get the situation of the OP. Then you're only looking at a couple skips to bring up the same person. You usually don't get to that point until over 600 or higher.

I had numerous tournaments that a late joiner 400 points below me had a team that was extremely effective against mine. I could track that persons progression from 200 to 600 when I logged in. That method required well over a dozen skips between fights.

Watching 1 person drop you from 700+ to 350 in 20 minutes wasn't fair either.

I don't know about 600 or higher. I have that situation every PVP tournament and it starts almost immediately after the first threesome. I'll beat a couple teams and, without skipping anything, I'll see the same team again. Of course, since my score is going up, they are worth less and less. That's the worst case scenario,. Other times, it's more like I have a group of 5 or 6 teams I can't get away from and just cycle. Skipping is pointless. I've tried and it just ends up costing me a lot if ISO.

I often wonder if people think I was targeting them, when I actually couldn't get rid of them.

Moral

As much as I passionately hate being hit by the same person multiple times, 30 minute invisibility combined with MMR hell will result in a flood of players only seeing under 5 point matches once you break 700.

Unknown

A_B-istooshort wrote:

I don't know about 600 or higher. I have that situation every PVP tournament and it starts almost immediately after the first threesome. I'll beat a couple teams and, without skipping anything, I'll see the same team again.

Aren't you fighting seed teams at the start? BACON_MAGIC and company?

Unknown

Moral wrote:

As much as I passionately hate being hit by the same person multiple times, 30 minute invisibility combined with MMR hell will result in a flood of players only seeing under 5 point matches once you break 700.

Unless the formula makes it mandatory to have better matches that is possible to do, just not actually desired at the moment.

Moral

A_B-istooshort wrote:

Moral wrote:

When you get into "MMR 'hell" you get stuck seeing the same 5-6 unshielded players. If they're all lower, you get the situation of the OP. Then you're only looking at a couple skips to bring up the same person. You usually don't get to that point until over 600 or higher.

I had numerous tournaments that a late joiner 400 points below me had a team that was extremely effective against mine. I could track that persons progression from 200 to 600 when I logged in. That method required well over a dozen skips between fights.

Watching 1 person drop you from 700+ to 350 in 20 minutes wasn't fair either.

I don't know about 600 or higher. I have that situation every PVP tournament and it starts almost immediately after the first threesome. I'll beat a couple teams and, without skipping anything, I'll see the same team again. Of course, since my score is going up, they are worth less and less. That's the worst case scenario,. Other times, it's more like I have a group of 5 or 6 teams I can't get away from and just cycle. Skipping is pointless. I've tried and it just ends up costing me a lot if ISO.

I often wonder if people think I was targeting them, when I actually couldn't get rid of them.

These were the days most of your nodes filled with max Thorverine-OBW teams and you lost equal points to what your opponent won. You could see point for point your losses with their progression and that there were no opponents in between.

I used more than my fair share of skips finding someone, anyone running something different.

Unknown

pasa_ wrote:

A_B-istooshort wrote:

I don't know about 600 or higher. I have that situation every PVP tournament and it starts almost immediately after the first threesome. I'll beat a couple teams and, without skipping anything, I'll see the same team again.

Aren't you fighting seed teams at the start? BACON_MAGIC and company?

I was trying to say that once I clear those out teams, BACON_MAGIC, et al., it doesn't take long until the "nodes" start filling up with the same teams. It doesn't happen constantly in every PVP tournament, but I can't remember one where it didn't happen at least a few times before they cycled out.

Unknown

walkyourpath wrote:

Moral wrote:

At some point you will be the highest ranked player in your MMR.

If you're upset that you cannot find anyone worth more points but you tank to find easier matches, then you're making an effort not to fight matches against higher ranked players.

I'm perfectly happy if a player wants to up his MMR to find more matches, there should be a button to do that.

Yep! Tanking provides an advantage up to a point (500ish) but you can definitely hamstring yourself by doing it too much. Late in a tourney, you're no longer facing teams who are scared off by yours (a good 2* team can still drop a heavy on offense, especially if they're willing to spend some boosts for a +39 jump) because your MMR is creeping up during your climb. It's very easy to end up in a situation where you have to shield and ride out the rest, or deal with +12, -37, +14, - 42, etc...

It's all still about who you choose to attack and when.

Exactly.

As has been stated to death on these forums, the devs have been quietly tweaking the PvP MMR system to mitigate the benefits of tanking.

There is a distinctive tradeoff for tanking, as mentioned above. Tank, and a player can get into competitive position (500+) with relative ease. But, by that time, that benefit has evaporated. The stretching of the soft cap on points to 700+ ensure that the endgame players will pay tankers a courtesy call by the end of the tourney.

And yes, timing is everything. Evading the 100-141s on the way up to 600+ is always a challenge. At worst, a tanker has to wait for the masses to inflate their scores high enough to be meaningful to actually push to 600+, which normally doesn't occur until the last 6 hours of a tourney.