Point loss in PvP - not anymore

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Comments

  • amusingfoo1
    amusingfoo1 Posts: 597 Critical Contributor
    The big problem I see with this suggestion is that if losses didn't count for progression, then the points needed for progression would certainly be raised. Maybe it would still be easier, maybe not. But I think they have a plan for how many people should be reaching any given level of progression, and adjust things to make it so. (Witness the change in progression values after the death of cupcakes. Though I wonder what the change in people reaching 4* and LT progression is, since then. I suspect the former went down a little bit, and the latter a lot.)
  • veny
    veny Posts: 834 Critical Contributor
    amusingfoo1 wrote:
    The big problem I see with this suggestion is that if losses didn't count for progression, then the points needed for progression would certainly be raised.
    I cant say i would mind.
    Current state - One PvP takes over two days (i hope). You have basically two options: 1st - start early, you will get some points, then you will be defeated (few hundreds points down) so you must to get point back. Getting high requires extremely good roster or buying heals/shield. 2nd - you start hour or two before end, you will get some points and if you are lucky you wont be defeated before event ends. This comes with good placement reward and 500+ progress points are guaranteed.

    With this system, you could start as soon as possible, you can play without fear of being defeated or without buying shield/heals, unless you care about placement too. If i should choose maximal reward 1200 points now is same as 2000 points with my idea implemented. 800 point difference is approx. 15-20 defeats which is pretty common number after reaching 800 points and more... especially if you start early.
  • veny
    veny Posts: 834 Critical Contributor
    Bump... seriously, the way how PvP works annoys me more and more. Today i was not able to get above 700 pts. No heals, no good covers (hard to fight powered 4*s or upgraded 5*s with maxed but not powered 4*s), fights took some time and in the meantime i got my **** kicked. I am seriously thinking about not wasting time in PvP anymore.
  • veny
    veny Posts: 834 Critical Contributor
    edited November 2016
    I created a survey here viewtopic.php?f=7&t=54204
    You can find there roughly how much players are able to reach top progression tier. Point of my suggestion is to remove P2W elements in progression rewards, because now, most people is not able to reach top prog. tier no matter how hard they try.
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    veny wrote:
    because now, most people is not able to reach top prog. tier no matter how hard they try.
    Which is the whole point.

    If you want guaranteed full progression regardless of roster, play PVE.

    PVP full progression is supposed to be an accomplishment, and a test of your roster progress.
    Improve your roster and you will hit progression in PVP.
  • veny
    veny Posts: 834 Critical Contributor
    Bowgentle wrote:
    Which is the whole point.

    If you want guaranteed full progression regardless of roster, play PVE.

    PVP full progression is supposed to be an accomplishment, and a test of your roster progress.
    Improve your roster and you will hit progression in PVP.
    Trust me, its not about roster. I am being defeated by deadly combos of 3*s even when i use 4*s. And there will be always someone better - even with fully champoned 5* team... mostly due to the facts that attacker can choose perfect counter-combo, AI is stupid, and matchmaking system.
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    veny wrote:
    Bowgentle wrote:
    Which is the whole point.

    If you want guaranteed full progression regardless of roster, play PVE.

    PVP full progression is supposed to be an accomplishment, and a test of your roster progress.
    Improve your roster and you will hit progression in PVP.
    Trust me, its not about roster. I am being defeated by deadly combos of 3*s even when i use 4*s. And there will be always someone better - even with fully champoned 5* team... mostly due to the facts that attacker can choose perfect counter-combo, AI is stupid, and matchmaking system.
    Of course it's about roster.
    Get better chars, hit higher before you need to shield.
    Go above your equilibrium point, get hit.

    For 4* rosters, equilibrium is 900.
    For 3* rosters it's about 700.
    For 5* rosters it's about 1000-1200, depending on how fast you cross 1k-1200.
    460+ 5* rosters and you can float at around 1200.
  • veny
    veny Posts: 834 Critical Contributor
    If they can counter my 270 level 4*s with bunch of 3*s or unupgraded 5*s, i dont see how it helps to build and army of 5*s... especialy when matchmaking puts you in line with players who have 5*s promoted and HP scalling is really painful there...

    As i said - no chance for players who dont spend money in game...
  • Lampo
    Lampo Posts: 121 Tile Toppler
    veny wrote:
    If they can counter my 270 level 4*s with bunch of 3*s or unupgraded 5*s, i dont see how it helps to build and army of 5*s... especialy when matchmaking puts you in line with players who have 5*s promoted and HP scalling is really painful there...

    As i said - no chance for players who dont spend money in game...

    And exactly how should money help you? For shields?
  • veny
    veny Posts: 834 Critical Contributor
    Lampo wrote:
    veny wrote:
    If they can counter my 270 level 4*s with bunch of 3*s or unupgraded 5*s, i dont see how it helps to build and army of 5*s... especialy when matchmaking puts you in line with players who have 5*s promoted and HP scalling is really painful there...

    As i said - no chance for players who dont spend money in game...

    And exactly how should money help you? For shields?
    Shield, heals, but mainly for better roster. The best way how to ensure good offense and good defense is to have at least three 5*s fully promoted. With them you eliminate the danger of powerful counter combinations (now your team of 4*s can be easily defeated by team of 3*s) and the possibility to be defeated by someone with stronger roster.
  • Lampo
    Lampo Posts: 121 Tile Toppler
    Well, you just said
    veny wrote:
    If they can counter my 270 level 4*s with bunch of 3*s or unupgraded 5*s, i dont see how it helps to build and army of 5*s... especialy when matchmaking puts you in line with players who have 5*s promoted and HP scalling is really painful there...

    The thing is: you will always find someone stronger than you, or someone who plays more than you.
    You can be in the first positions with a 1/2* team (it happened to me) as well as you can do it with a 5* team. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
    Except for shields, the only thing saving you from attacks is having a "scary" team: I tended to avoid teams with 3* Iron Fist & Luke Cage, because they were too strong for me (now I use Ant-Man icon_mrgreen.gif ). It will be difficult that the system matches a 3* team with a 5* team, so you should find the "scariest" team for you level.

    To me, it's just not fair that sometimes you lose up to 40 points in one single match, so I would lower the "points loss rate".
  • veny
    veny Posts: 834 Critical Contributor
    Yeah, and thats my point. You know, i would be 100% fine with pvp if better roster meant better chance to win both in attack and defense. Problem is, its not about roster... mostly its about what enemy use to counter your covers, how AI behaves, how lucky AI is, or how many players decide to attack you.
    I experienced 4 defeats during one attack. With this, you can try harder and harder but still - no chance to get max progress loot.
    My idea would fix it and no one would be harmed...
  • Eddiemon
    Eddiemon Posts: 1,470 Chairperson of the Boards
    veny wrote:
    My idea would fix it and no one would be harmed...

    Everyone would be harmed.

    Your proposal is basically 'guarantee everyone all progression loot'.

    And if D3 did this they would make the loot worse to compensate. 900 points is a 4 star because it's difficult to get and not everyone achieves it. But once you make it trivial for everyone to achieve, why leave it a 4 star?

    Guaranteeing everyone 25CP every 3 days also seems a bit rich, so I assume the higher CP bonus will also go away.

    The very fact that you can't easily achieve it is also the reason it can be worth as much as it is.
  • acescracked
    acescracked Posts: 1,197 Chairperson of the Boards
    veny wrote:
    If they can counter my 270 level 4*s with bunch of 3*s or unupgraded 5*s, i dont see how it helps to build and army of 5*s... especialy when matchmaking puts you in line with players who have 5*s promoted and HP scalling is really painful there...

    As i said - no chance for players who dont spend money in game...

    I haven't spent money on this game in two years and I always have a chance. I know many total free to play players killing it..

    That's not really the point. This is a free to play mobile game. The buisness model is to have a p2w format and if you don't want to p2w then it will take you a long time to progress. They will always have to dribble out the free rewards while pushing players to open their wallets.

    Side note: PvP used to be far easier for everyone due to a thing called cupcakes. Way easy to hit top progression then. However, too Many players were hitting the top progression for the bean counters liking. So they killed cupcakes.
  • Lampo
    Lampo Posts: 121 Tile Toppler
    acescracked wrote:
    veny wrote:
    If they can counter my 270 level 4*s with bunch of 3*s or unupgraded 5*s, i dont see how it helps to build and army of 5*s... especialy when matchmaking puts you in line with players who have 5*s promoted and HP scalling is really painful there...

    As i said - no chance for players who dont spend money in game...

    I haven't spent money on this game in two years and I always have a chance. I know many total free to play players killing it..

    That's not really the point. This is a free to play mobile game. The buisness model is to have a p2w format and if you don't want to p2w then it will take you a long time to progress. They will always have to dribble out the free rewards while pushing players to open their wallets.

    Side note: PvP used to be far easier for everyone due to a thing called cupcakes. Way easy to hit top progression then. However, too Many players were hitting the top progression for the bean counters liking. So they killed cupcakes.

    (sorry, quite new here: what do you mean with "cupcakes"? Thanks)

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