* Storm (Modern) * [PRE 2014-07]

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Comments

  • I don't think there needs to be a stronger storm but I think there should be at least another character that has her level of board clear that generates AP

    Storm Classic green (up to 30), The Hood yellow (18), IW green (up to 27 + extra damage)

    You are welcome icon_e_wink.gif
  • Right now my Storm is at 5/4/4 because I didn't see much advantage to going to 5 AP for Mistress instead of 6 AP. Does anyone know if it gets a hidden damage boost with covers? I might respec if it does.
  • I really don't get why people keep using Strike tiles as the reason why you absolutely HAVE to have Black at Lv 5.

    As long as you have strike tiles, even a single Attack tile will trigger them all. You don't HAVE to get the maximum number of attack tiles possible.

    140 Damage or 224 Damage DOT per turn is certainly nice. But not exactly what I would call a killer move.

    Dr Doom can deal 1.1k damage PER TURN. Would you consider him OP?
  • SandwichboySandwichboy Age Unconfirmed Posts: 193 Tile Toppler
    I do not understand at all why anyone would want to use hailstorm. Ever.

    OBW/Thor/M. Storm. If you're in forest, desert or the lab, it's even easier. 5 red AP gets you cascades which feed all those more valuable powers. 90% of matches, I just clear enviro tiles, match green, yellow and purple till I can hit thunder strike or lightning storm (or aggressive recon, if the other team has stuff I need.) pretty much from the second I can get off one LS, the game is over. The board is constantly being reshaped and cleared over and over, so there's no point at all to having attack tiles that do about as much damage as an extra match 3. Outside of another 1* event, Hailstorm is pretty worthless.
  • I do not understand at all why anyone would want to use hailstorm. Ever.

    OBW/Thor/M. Storm. If you're in forest, desert or the lab, it's even easier. 5 red AP gets you cascades which feed all those more valuable powers. 90% of matches, I just clear enviro tiles, match green, yellow and purple till I can hit thunder strike or lightning storm (or aggressive recon, if the other team has stuff I need.) pretty much from the second I can get off one LS, the game is over. The board is constantly being reshaped and cleared over and over, so there's no point at all to having attack tiles that do about as much damage as an extra match 3. Outside of another 1* event, Hailstorm is pretty worthless.
    if you have no one covering black, might as well use the extra damage. It's also incredibly, hilariously shutting-downingly useful against Daredevil's blue and red. But I agree mostly, it's very weak damage over time which contradicts Storm's other two powers which are infinitely more useful. I used to have a 4-5-4 mStorm back when I started, and managed to beat Prologue with her (just used the covers in the order they came), but when I started PvPing and going to the forums, I rebuilt her to 5-5-3, and had no regrets whatsoever.
  • 9 AP for 20x7 or 32x7 means
    9AP for 140 damage or 224 damage per turn.

    Even at level 5, you have to deal at least 4 turns of damage (assuming no tiles destroyed), before it matches the damage like from a Repulsor. (945) Personally I prefer to just nuke that character and be done with it.

    My point? Hailstorm is nice. But it is not the super killer move everyone makes it out to be. It's nice and good at level 3. It is not extremely crucial to have it at Level 5.

    Is it great with Strike Tiles? Yes of course.

    But I keep stressing this over and over. YOU DO NOT NEED THE MAXIMUM NUMBER OF ATTACK TILES WHEN YOU USE STRIKE TILES!!
  • Like I mentioned earlier, the only reason I'm not 5/5/3 is because it seems to me that the benefit of having Mistress cost 5 AP instead of 6 is very minimal.

    HOWEVER, I have found Hailstorm is extremely useful in a mid-level team simply because it eliminates huge amounts of basic tiles. I've won quite a few battles after using back-to-back hailstorms to turn all red tiles into attack tiles, thus disabling Summon Demons or Pheremone Rage for a few turns.
  • mags1587mags1587 Posts: 1,020 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'm one of the contrary people that prefers a 5/3/5 build. The main reason why I prefer it over a 5/5/3 build isn't because I think Hailstorm is so much better than her red -- it's that the difference between 5ap and 7ap is minimal for me when I'm actually playing with M. Storm.

    In practice, I can fire off her red power two or maybe three times per match. After the first time I use her red, the environment tiles take a while to drop back onto the board. I'm not going to fire off red if it's only going to clear off 2 environment tiles; that's not worth it for me. So by the time I'm actually ready to fire off her red for the second time I have more than enough AP to do so.

    The extra tiles makes it harder to clear them all off the board. A small benefit, but one that's more useful to me than having red at a 5ap cost. And I'm not trying to argue that you're really going to see a benefit to having hailstorm at 5 when using M.Storm against 2* and 3* characters; but in the recent 1* tourney, I was happy with my build.
  • Perfectly normal to have a different build, and perfectly normal to have an experience differing from that of the crowd.

    I will of course still stick to my stand. Her red is more practical and more useful, and it is better to focus on that instead.

    Reduction of AP costs increase speed and frequency you can use moves. So while 7 to 6 or 5 may not seem a lot, it really helps when you need to spam it quick.

    Put it this way. You're not just using the red for damage, you are using it to change the board, causing combos and generate some AP. If 2 chains occur, you already profited. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't. And sometimes you get really really lucky. Or really unlucky if facing her and get stuck in an infinite loop.
  • I think it's important to note that red is one of the most noteworthy colours overall. IM35, Juggs, Wolvie, Thor are some of the most popular 1 and 2 stars. Having 5 AP Mistress of the Elements allows greater flexibility between utility and damage.
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    mags1587 wrote:
    I'm one of the contrary people that prefers a 5/3/5 build. The main reason why I prefer it over a 5/5/3 build isn't because I think Hailstorm is so much better than her red -- it's that the difference between 5ap and 7ap is minimal for me when I'm actually playing with M. Storm.

    In practice, I can fire off her red power two or maybe three times per match. After the first time I use her red, the environment tiles take a while to drop back onto the board. I'm not going to fire off red if it's only going to clear off 2 environment tiles; that's not worth it for me. So by the time I'm actually ready to fire off her red for the second time I have more than enough AP to do so.

    The extra tiles makes it harder to clear them all off the board. A small benefit, but one that's more useful to me than having red at a 5ap cost. And I'm not trying to argue that you're really going to see a benefit to having hailstorm at 5 when using M.Storm against 2* and 3* characters; but in the recent 1* tourney, I was happy with my build.

    This is a really interesting line of reasoning. I guess it boils down to whether or not you want M. Storm to be a basic tile denier or an AP generator, and I think most people would prefer the AP generator. I didn't think about using black like that, but it could be a good (albeit situational) counter to heros that rely on special tiles.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Well my two cents. I like the 5/5/3 but totally understand 5/3/5. My experience has been though, I get so much Ap from the cascades that I can cast Black 2-3 times if I wanted, and since my goal is to make MS an AP genrator I don't care about the damage from Black, while I appreciate the 5/3/5, once you are into the game for awhile, you will never be using MS as a damage dealer, but she is dang usefuly in PvE events as a 5/5/3
  • Storm's a definite hard counter to Daredevil. All three of her abilities can disarm his traps (Hailstorm can overwrite his blue and red ability traps, MotE poops all over his purple ability, and Lightning Strike can zap either). Something to bear in mind.

    Also, bear in mind that her red is also arguably better in the meta with the arrival of Black Panther.

    Personally, I went 5-5-3.
    5-3-5 is also fine depending on how you wish to use her.

    5-4-4 is an unhappy compromise. Paying an extra red isn't worth the gain of 4 damage tiles. And arguably paying one less red isn't worth the loss of 8 damage tiles.

    I've heard the argument on here that some people have gone 5-3-5 because they partner her with another character who's the main red user. So as another character will be using the red, it makes more sense to max her black. THIS LINE OF THOUGHT IS FLAWED!

    In fact it generally makes more sense to go 5-3-5 if she's your sole red user! It's not a spammy skill. Once you've destroyed all the environment tiles with MotE, it takes a while before it's worth casting again. During which time it's fairly easy to get the 7 red AP you need.

    Conversely, if you have another main red user, it's pretty important to have her red as cheap as possible. That way when you do need to use it, you're not inhibiting the other character too much. In fact if you get at least one red match out of it the cost is effectively 2AP. (It can even give you a net gain red of AP, if you're canny when you use it and have a bit of luck.) Black at 3 is also pretty sufficient for most purposes. The cost of 9AP is low enough, and she's so good at generating AP, that you can usually cast it regularly enough to still work fine for basic tile denial.

    Lastly, her red is amazing in forest and desert areas. It's okay in tundra and labs. It's a bit meh in urban areas and Latveria. Something to bear in mind when choosing whether to pick her.
  • I'd like to add that Hailstorm doesn't have an immediate effect while Mistress can and will save your butt a ton of times. Having it cheap helps combine Storm with any other red user, it's just invaluable to be able to clear the board from all the pesky env. tiles for a cheap price. For example, Patch benefits from this, since his red damage is based on basic color tiles on the board; etc.
  • 5-4-4 is an unhappy compromise. Paying an extra red isn't worth the gain of 4 damage tiles. And arguably paying one less red isn't worth the loss of 8 damage tiles.

    My philosophy on this is that Storm can flood you with AP as soon as LS is online, so the only time the cost difference between 5,6,and 7 AP matters is in the very early turns of the match. Sure, it's possible that you can pick up the odd 1 or 2 AP from 4-matches or a stealing power, but the great majority of the time you're going to get your earliest activation of Mistress by matching reds. I think being able to activate it after two matches is a big advantage over it taking three matches, making 4 covers better than 3 covers, but 99% of the time you're going to need 2 matches to get your first activation of the round even if it costs 5 AP, so you get very, very little advantage for taking it to 5 covers.
  • gamar wrote:
    5-4-4 is an unhappy compromise. Paying an extra red isn't worth the gain of 4 damage tiles. And arguably paying one less red isn't worth the loss of 8 damage tiles.

    My philosophy on this is that Storm can flood you with AP as soon as LS is online, so the only time the cost difference between 5,6,and 7 AP matters is in the very early turns of the match. Sure, it's possible that you can pick up the odd 1 or 2 AP from 4-matches or a stealing power, but the great majority of the time you're going to get your earliest activation of Mistress by matching reds. I think being able to activate it after two matches is a big advantage over it taking three matches, making 4 covers better than 3 covers, but 99% of the time you're going to need 2 matches to get your first activation of the round even if it costs 5 AP, so you get very, very little advantage for taking it to 5 covers.

    I sort of see what you're trying to get at, but your point kinda contradicts itself. As you say, there are often a lot of environment tiles around in the very early turns of the match. But if using MotE early is your priority, then 5AP beats 6AP hands down. You can get a match 5-red. A match 4-red that knocks out another red on its path. A match 4/5-any that knocks out a couple of reds on its line, and then a 3-red match. A 3-red match and then a crit tile with two reds. All these situations would take an extra turn to cast MotE at 6AP.

    From my experience, I'd say you're vastly overstating things when you suggest it won't make a difference 99% of the time. Plus even when you do cast it after two 3-red matches, you at least have 1 red AP left in the bank which can come in handy later on. Whereas, while I can just about buy that 12 extra damage tiles on your Hailstorm will sometimes make a difference, I think it really is fair to say that 4 extra damage tiles won't make the blindest bit of difference 99% of the time.

    I know 6AP sounds nice and neat in theory, but it's really not worth what you're gaining/losing in damage tiles. People will make up their own minds, but I do urge you all away from 5-4-4.
  • I sort of see what you're trying to get at, but your point kinda contradicts itself. As you say, there are often a lot of environment tiles around in the very early turns of the match. But if using MotE early is your priority, then 5AP beats 6AP hands down. You can get a match 5-red. A match 4-red that knocks out another red on its path. A match 4/5-any that knocks out a couple of reds on its line, and then a 3-red match. A 3-red match and then a crit tile with two reds. All these situations would take an extra turn to cast MotE at 6AP.

    From my experience, I'd say you're vastly overstating things when you suggest it won't make a difference 99% of the time. Plus even when you do cast it after two 3-red matches, you at least have 1 red AP left in the bank which can come in handy later on. Whereas, while I can just about buy that 12 extra damage tiles on your Hailstorm will sometimes make a difference, I think it really is fair to say that 4 extra damage tiles won't make the blindest bit of difference 99% of the time.

    I know 6AP sounds nice and neat in theory, but it's really not worth what you're gaining/losing in damage tiles. People will make up their own minds, but I do urge you all away from 5-4-4.

    You very well could be right! Maybe I'll try a 5-5-3 for a while and see how it works out
  • I went 4/4/5 long ago and haven't regretted it. But now I have a red and green cover sitting in my roster. I've been debating for two days whether to respec her to 5/3/5. Increase red AP cost to 7 for 16 tiles? It sounds pretty good. Here's my reasoning so far.

    1 - I see black as one of the most valuable abilities. There are so few characters that use black. And the cost is low enough that you can get 2, if not 3, hailstorms off in a match. The entire board will be covered with fists. Even if her attacks don't do much damage, ticking 300 damage every turn can turn the tide. As the fists get matched and disappear off the board, cast another Hailstorm. AND they stay after she dies!

    2 - After you use her red once, it's kind of useless for a while. All the environment tiles are destroyed and you have to wait for more to build back up. I might use her Red near the beginning of the match when the board is full of environment tiles, but subsequent red attacks will be made by someone else. This is by far the most useless ability, in my opinion.

    3 - The only thing I miss is having 5 in Green. In the past, I've thought it was a fair compromise. She still does significant board clearing, that's saved my **** many a time. It gives me AP and very often cascades that equal a complete **** whooping for the other team. The difference between shattering 12 tiles instead of 16... Yes, 16 would be better, but 12 ain't so bad.

    Hm...
  • pumkin wrote:
    I went 4/4/5 long ago and haven't regretted it. But now I have a red and green cover sitting in my roster. I've been debating for two days whether to respec her to 5/3/5.
    Hm...
    Please try out the 5-5-3 build. Her covers are abundant anyway, if you're unhappy, you can go back to 5-3-5. 300 additional damage per turn maybe helps in 1* matches, but when you start relying heavily on abilities rather than matches, Mistress can be of greater help than Hailstorm. Plus, Hailstorm clutters the board quite a bit, I have a hard time noticing enemy countdown or attack tiles among Storm's.
  • locked wrote:
    Plus, Hailstorm clutters the board quite a bit, I have a hard time noticing enemy countdown or attack tiles among Storm's.

    Glad I'm not the only one icon_e_confused.gif

    But I agree with rest of your comment too. And definitely worth trying things like that now with the respec option.
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