Why so little CP in gauntlet?

simonsez

7 days for 6 CP, unless I've missed something. Meanwhile, if we'd had a 4 and 3 day PvE, we'd have gotten 64 CP, plus whatever we might've gotten from placement awards.

And even with the ISO upgrade, it's pretty much even in terms of ISO and XP, except the difficulty is off-the-charts compared to normal PvE.

The 500 ISO per first clear was a step in the right direction, but Gauntlet is still way more work for fewer prizes.

fmftint

Yup, need a 25 command point progression or more than 2 comps/sub

Quebbster

Gauntlet may run for 7 Days, but they start Another PvE after four Days for all the people who already finished. So it's 6 CP over 4 Days... which is still a lot less than we are used to.
On the other hand, it's fairly easy to farm XP there.

TxMoose

and they finally gave us some iso. really glad about the iso.

GrumpySmurf1002

simonsez wrote:

Gauntlet is still way more work for fewer prizes.

While I agree there should be a 25CP prize in there...not sure I agree with this.

To farm the XP now, Gauntlet is 180 node clears, albeit yes, brutally scaled ones at the end, with no timers, so can be spread however time allows. A typical PvE is a 63-70 per day, so 490 over 7 days, and from what I'm told the hardest ones are no picnic for the big rosters either.

That's almost triple the work allowed, so even if allowing for the extra scaling, time investment is still gotta be at least double for a typical PvE.

Plus yeah, Deadpool vs MPQ is gonna start in the middle of this Gauntlet run, so only missing out on these three days.

mpqr7

Less CP, more ISO and XP. I'm fine with it.

simonsez

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

simonsez wrote:

Gauntlet is still way more work for fewer prizes.

While I agree there should be a 25CP prize in there...not sure I agree with this

mpqr7 wrote:

Less CP, more ISO and XP. I'm fine with it.

Let's do the math. Gauntlet is 60 nodes for 850 ISO per node (if you clear them all) minus 600 for the nodes with CP. That's 50k
PvE has 7950 in the 9 nodes, which is 55K for 7 days. Plus you get 42 standard tokens. So you're well over 60k. Plus you can get another 10k+ on sub and final personal/alliance placement awards.

As for CP, Gauntlet has 60 nodes, 7 day PvE has 63, plus at least 7 main nodes, possibly more.

20k+ more ISO, 100+ more XP in regular PvE. And at least 44% of the nodes are completely trivial, and 0% of them will feature nonsense like a lv450+ XDP, Black Bolt, Peggy.

If you guys still disagree, what am I missing?

Quebbster

simonsez wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

simonsez wrote:

Gauntlet is still way more work for fewer prizes.

While I agree there should be a 25CP prize in there...not sure I agree with this

mpqr7 wrote:

Less CP, more ISO and XP. I'm fine with it.

Let's do the math. Gauntlet is 60 nodes for 850 ISO per node (if you clear them all) minus 600 for the nodes with CP. That's 50k
PvE has 7950 in the 9 nodes, which is 55K for 7 days. Plus you get 42 standard tokens. So you're well over 60k. Plus you can get another 10k+ on sub and final personal/alliance placement awards.

As for CP, Gauntlet has 60 nodes, 7 day PvE has 63, plus at least 7 main nodes, possibly more.

20k+ more ISO, 100+ more XP in regular PvE. And at least 44% of the nodes are completely trivial, and 0% of them will feature nonsense like a lv450+ XDP, Black Bolt, Peggy.

If you guys still disagree, what am I missing?

Count it as a four day PvE instead as that's the time period when only the Gauntlet runs. That means 32000ISO and 24 standard tokens.
Heck, if you just play the 60 nodes once that nets you 27000 ISO, that's a pretty good return on your playtime. Then it plummets, but it's pretty generous to give out the best rewards first.

madsalad

simonsez wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

simonsez wrote:

Gauntlet is still way more work for fewer prizes.

While I agree there should be a 25CP prize in there...not sure I agree with this

mpqr7 wrote:

Less CP, more ISO and XP. I'm fine with it.

Let's do the math. Gauntlet is 60 nodes for 850 ISO per node (if you clear them all) minus 600 for the nodes with CP. That's 50k
PvE has 7950 in the 9 nodes, which is 55K for 7 days. Plus you get 42 standard tokens. So you're well over 60k. Plus you can get another 10k+ on sub and final personal/alliance placement awards.

As for CP, Gauntlet has 60 nodes, 7 day PvE has 63, plus at least 7 main nodes, possibly more.

20k+ more ISO, 100+ more XP in regular PvE. And at least 44% of the nodes are completely trivial, and 0% of them will feature nonsense like a lv450+ XDP, Black Bolt, Peggy.

If you guys still disagree, what am I missing?

Yes, but, each one of those subs has a 24 (or 48) hour time constraint. You either grind hard or miss out. Gauntlet is over 7 days so you can take your time to grind out all nodes and get your max iso and XP from each node. I like not having to grind 9 nodes 7 times in a 24 hour
period.

Edit: I also like the variety and puzzling that comes with Gauntlet. Only having to grind the same team 3 times is better than grinding the same team/node/Dark Avengers nonsense 6 times. Plus Gauntlet allows me to sometimes really have to think about which team would be better to fight my foes rather than brute force my OML/Phx + 3rd boosted/essential.

GrumpySmurf1002

simonsez wrote:

As for CP, Gauntlet has 60 nodes, 7 day PvE has 63, plus at least 7 main nodes, possibly more.

20k+ more ISO, 100+ more XP in regular PvE. And at least 44% of the nodes are completely trivial, and 0% of them will feature nonsense like a lv450+ XDP, Black Bolt, Peggy.

If you guys still disagree, what am I missing?

I guess it depends how long it takes you to clear Gauntlet nodes vs Regular PvE nodes, since although they claim to be balancing that time frame, everyone's experience will vary there.

It's 180 clears of Gauntlet nodes versus a minimum of 420 clears of regular PvE nodes. So just raw iso/clear, Gauntlet wins 277 to 166. At 2 min per PvE node (probably generous, but lets go with it), that's ~3.33 minutes per Gauntlet node to be balanced timewise. At 3, it's ~5 per Gauntlet node.

Even with the abominable matchups in the last sub, it's gonna at least be close, since the easy sub of Gauntlet is still fairly easy and will balance the timeframe a bit.

So yeah, you lose some XP (which is really just iso, @13.7 iso/XP above rank 65 = 1370 more iso) and CP, the latter of which I agree should be in the progression somewhere. Otherwise, I don't really think it's as unbalanced as you seem to.

simonsez

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

So just raw iso/clear, Gauntlet wins 277 to 166.

Quebbster has a point, assuming a regular PvE will overlap this on the 5th day, that this should only be considered a 4 day event. That would at least bring the ISO and XP per day more in line with each other. But I've got to stop you at looking at iso/clear. I mean really, there are a lot of nodes in regular PvE you can win with 1 or 2 swipes, so even your time estimate seems off. A huge chunk of gauntlet is a living hell (and wiping will sure increase your time spent per node). Hey, some folks like that. But it's not about liking it or disliking it. You just can't use iso/clear as a metric when the diffculty isn't comparable at all.

hodayathink

Also, it's fairly obvious that they consider the specific 4 star reward as the replacement for the 25CP. If you consider Gauntlet a 4 day PvE instead of 7 days (which it's kinda obvious that they do), then it's still low on CP but only by 2 (since the 48hr subs usually give away 4CP).

Edit:

simonsez wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

So just raw iso/clear, Gauntlet wins 277 to 166.

Quebbster has a point, assuming a regular PvE will overlap this on the 5th day, that this should only be considered a 4 day event. That would at least bring the ISO and XP per day more in line with each other. But I've got to stop you at looking at iso/clear. I mean really, there are a lot of nodes in regular PvE you can win with 1 or 2 swipes, so even your time estimate seems off. A huge chunk of gauntlet is a living hell (and wiping will sure increase your time spent per node). Hey, some folks like that. But it's not about liking it or disliking it. You just can't use iso/clear as a metric when the diffculty isn't comparable at all.

A 4 day sub with 1/2/1 format would have 12 easy nodes (9 before they basically made the 2* required an easy node). Four ones format would be 16. The next event (Deadpool vs. MPQ) will only have 8, not including one time nodes (two 2 day subs). I guess they could start the difficulty ramp up a little later, but people already complain that it ramps up too fast now, and I don't know that making the ramp up later but faster (because we both know that is what they would end up doing) would bring about less complaints.

gigatilburg29

I dont understand why every pve should give out the same amount of rewards, this is a different kind of PVE so it's a different reward structure. I am on the devs side on this one.

GrumpySmurf1002

simonsez wrote:

You just can't use iso/clear as a metric when the diffculty isn't comparable at all.

I know that, that's why I kept going.

277 per clear that takes 3.33 minutes each clear is 83 iso/min, 166 per clear @ 2 is also 83/min.

2 minutes per clear in PvE I think is generous. Yes the easy ones don't take time but 6 clears still takes at least ~2 hours, no? That's 1 clear : 2min. I'm fairly certain, at least when Iceman/RHulk/Jean aren't boosted, that my own clears take more than 2 hours. It's usually 1.5 to start and at least an hour to finish once the scaling kicks in.

Magic

Guantlet is just a way to give us some break. I did grind the easy section for all ISO and XP awards. I don't think I will clear any other section - the awards are not worth my time. I will just get a break and play some PvP.

simonsez

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

6 clears still takes at least ~2 hours, no?

I've got alliance mates who do 1:15. 1:30 seems to be the high end of the range. Like I said, your time estimate seemed off.

GrumpySmurf1002

simonsez wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

6 clears still takes at least ~2 hours, no?

I've got alliance mates who do 1:15. 1:30 seems to be the high end of the range. Like I said, your time estimate seemed off.

And like I said, no matter how they say they balance it, experiences vary. Maybe they're boosting through it, maybe their scaling is slightly better than mine, maybe their PC/Phone processes data faster. Whatever it is I know I can't/don't clear them in 1:30.

So sure, if you can clear them that fast, this is probably a less productive use of time.

Pylgrim

The events are too different to possibly compare, each with its comparative "pros" and "cons". I just blazed through the main nodes of the first two subs (28 nodes) in around an hour for 14k iso, then put the phone down without worrying about timing. That, by itself, is an experience unlike what any other PVE offers. Front-loading the best rewards means that if you want to put minimal effort (for a nice change of pace) you'll get an unparalleled value for your time, at the cost of a slightly reduced comparative reward if you go all the way in.

Even if you go all the way in, you are getting similar results by playing 180 clears at whatever pace you want over 7 days as you'd get playing around 220 nodes over 4 days while tied to timing restrictions that force you to play in huge chunks of time at once. Yes, in gauntlet you get some truly challenging nodes that will force you to exercise your roster and strategies instead of trouncing for the nth time Dark Avengers + goons with your same 3 best characters. However, for some people, this is actually another upside as well, you know?

Crowl

hodayathink wrote:

Also, it's fairly obvious that they consider the specific 4 star reward as the replacement for the 25CP. If you consider Gauntlet a 4 day PvE instead of 7 days (which it's kinda obvious that they do), then it's still low on CP but only by 2 (since the 48hr subs usually give away 4CP).

Considering the extreme scaling of the gauntlet they should give the 4* for completing all the main path nodes and then give out a chunk of cp for also completing the side paths so that way people do not get screwed if they are missing one of the required characters.

simonsez

hodayathink wrote:

Also, it's fairly obvious that they consider the specific 4 star reward as the replacement for the 25CP.

Good to know the devs concede that the pull rate on 5*s is so awful, might as well be ignored.

simonsez

Pylgrim wrote:

Yes, in gauntlet you get some truly challenging nodes that will force you to exercise your roster and strategies instead of trouncing for the nth time Dark Avengers + goons with your same 3 best characters. However, for some people, this is actually another upside as well, you know?

Like I already said, I didn't want this turning into whether or not some people prefer banging their head against the wall. All I'm saying is that the available awards per day don't measure up, even if you ignore the difference in difficulty and any other intangible pros and cons.