How do you bake?

Calnexin
Calnexin Posts: 1,078 Chairperson of the Boards
edited September 2016 in MPQ General Discussion
Cupcakes!

I haven't personally encountered one. And I know that, generally, baking is coordinated within an alliance, so they can benefit maximally.

I've never been part of an alliance that utilized that level of communication. As such, I don't know how it works. I mean mechanically. I get that you put a weak team out there and shield. But what are the considerations when baking? How do you pull off a win with a weak team when you're at high points?
«13

Comments

  • adamdivine
    adamdivine Posts: 136 Tile Toppler
    You either save one of your seed teams and use that to bake, or you bake off of someone else's bake. You also sometimes q up a newbie team and use that to bake. But the first two methods are probably the most common. It is very helpful to have really strong tus to bake, that is where being a strong alliance really makes a big difference. But if you know about the theory of it, what are you waiting for?? Get LINE and join the fun!
  • DC1972
    DC1972 Posts: 77 Match Maker
    I would say baking is more than coordination in an alliance. There are many Line groups with multiple alliances and then those groups share with other groups. The baker is being generous to all in the slice. That is why hitting a baker unshielded and causing him/her to lose points (and everyone else who eats the cake later will earn less points) is such a bad thing.

    Saving seed teams can be hard since you can lose the seed team if you are attacked. Once you are at a certain point level though you will see many easy teams or you can wait for others to bake and queue their CC. Queue up two easy teams. Beat one easy team with your cupcake team. As prior responder indicated, TUs (AOE with low cost) really help. You could also use 2 TU boost and throw in Captain Marvel to generate silver tiles. Beat the second easy team with your "A" team. While you are beating the second team everyone will be able to queue your cupcake team. Shield after you beat the second easy team. Everyone can now enjoy your cupcake. Unless you are done with the event, it is important to use your A team to beat the second easy team. Otherwise, when you unshield for your next hop your cupcake team will get queued by everyone and you'll likely take heavy point damage. If you are done for the event then you can leave out your cupcake team but need to give everyone some time to queue it before you shield.
  • Fightmastermpq
    Fightmastermpq Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
    At the start of the event I will save 1 seed team and climb to about 400 then bake a trap cake off the seed - the loaner and two 1*s. Then I just wait until someone beats me with a similar team. I save that retal until I'm ready to drop my first shield, hit it with my cupcake team, then hit another cupcake or just an easy random that I am able to queue.
  • tizian2015
    tizian2015 Posts: 194 Tile Toppler
    Baking is cheating. I´m sorry to say this. It´s a not-ingame-way to bypass a broken pvp-system. And its a fatal signal from d3 nothing to do against it respectively not to fix this system. If baking would not be possible, many more players (and I think many whales whose opinion would be crucial for d3) would protest against this broken system, because there are no "easy" 1300 (or more) points for them. Coordinating against an enemy is ok, like teamspeak in several games or ingame-chats, but I know no other game where players coordinate attacks against themselves!
  • jobob
    jobob Posts: 680 Critical Contributor
    tizian2015 wrote:
    Coordinating against an enemy is ok, like teamspeak in several games or ingame-chats, but I know no other game where players coordinate attacks against themselves!
    It's just teamwork. It's like laying down covering fire in an FPS, or having a mage constantly healing your tank in an MMO.

    Plus, there are times you are baking for no one's benefit but your own... i.e. if you are putting out a trap cake to entice weaker players to hit you to farm retals.

    In the end, I don't see it as cheating.
  • mohio
    mohio Posts: 1,690 Chairperson of the Boards
    tizian2015 wrote:
    Baking is cheating. I´m sorry to say this. It´s a not-ingame-way to bypass a broken pvp-system. And its a fatal signal from d3 nothing to do against it respectively not to fix this system. If baking would not be possible, many more players (and I think many whales whose opinion would be crucial for d3) would protest against this broken system, because there are no "easy" 1300 (or more) points for them. Coordinating against an enemy is ok, like teamspeak in several games or ingame-chats, but I know no other game where players coordinate attacks against themselves!
    First of all - it's clearly not cheating. D3 has set up a system where this type of thing works, players figured it out, and so they use (you might say abuse) it to their advantage. Second of all, how would you propose fixing this system? Without a point threshold where you can be seen by anyone you could have certain mini rosters scoring as many points as they want because no one else can queue them to take them down. There has to be this check in the system or else matchmaking would completely break down.
  • tizian2015
    tizian2015 Posts: 194 Tile Toppler
    jobob wrote:
    tizian2015 wrote:
    Coordinating against an enemy is ok, like teamspeak in several games or ingame-chats, but I know no other game where players coordinate attacks against themselves!
    It's just teamwork. It's like laying down covering fire in an FPS, or having a mage constantly healing your tank in an MMO.

    Plus, there are times you are baking for no one's benefit but your own... i.e. if you are putting out a trap cake to entice weaker players to hit you to farm retals.

    In the end, I don't see it as cheating.

    No it´s not teamwork. You describe situations where people fight against an enemy. But the Tank comes not out of his shelter and cries to its enemies "hit me for your points". What you say is: The enemy is the pvp-system and we use teamwork against it. And with that its clear: a) the pvp system is broken b) its cheating, because fighting against the system and not against an ingame enemy is cheating.

    Btw.: Trapcakes are a clear insult of the "cupcake-netiquette". Is it nearly punished as "too-early-attacks against an not shielded cupcaketeam"?
  • STOPTHIS
    STOPTHIS Posts: 781 Critical Contributor
    tizian2015 wrote:
    Baking is cheating. I´m sorry to say this. It´s a not-ingame-way to bypass a broken pvp-system. And its a fatal signal from d3 nothing to do against it respectively not to fix this system. If baking would not be possible, many more players (and I think many whales whose opinion would be crucial for d3) would protest against this broken system, because there are no "easy" 1300 (or more) points for them. Coordinating against an enemy is ok, like teamspeak in several games or ingame-chats, but I know no other game where players coordinate attacks against themselves!

    It's not cheating, it's just working a broken system. And I say that as someone who never has or ever will participated in baking. You're never going to be able to stop people from talking outside of the game, so there needs to be a fix in game. If D3 were to remove or limit points lost for attacks I'd bet there'd be a huge drop in baking, aside from the crazies that want to hit 3000 points every event. Losing 100+ pts during a single match while you're shield hopping is gut wrenching for those really committed. They post their stories here all the time. I don't blame anyone for trying to find a work around.
  • tizian2015
    tizian2015 Posts: 194 Tile Toppler
    mohio wrote:
    tizian2015 wrote:
    Baking is cheating. I´m sorry to say this. It´s a not-ingame-way to bypass a broken pvp-system. And its a fatal signal from d3 nothing to do against it respectively not to fix this system. If baking would not be possible, many more players (and I think many whales whose opinion would be crucial for d3) would protest against this broken system, because there are no "easy" 1300 (or more) points for them. Coordinating against an enemy is ok, like teamspeak in several games or ingame-chats, but I know no other game where players coordinate attacks against themselves!
    First of all - it's clearly not cheating. D3 has set up a system where this type of thing works, players figured it out, and so they use (you might say abuse) it to their advantage. Second of all, how would you propose fixing this system? Without a point threshold where you can be seen by anyone you could have certain mini rosters scoring as many points as they want because no one else can queue them to take them down. There has to be this check in the system or else matchmaking would completely break down.

    Every possible cheat or abuse of game-mechanics was set up by the designers in every other game (because if not it would not exist). Thats not an argument. The system could be fixed by not allowing several attacks against the same target. If a target is attacked, its no more visible for you, you have to look again for it (when its out of the fight) and pls correct me if im wrong this means the shielded cupcake will only attacked by one other player and with shield its not visible for others after the shielding so another search for the cupcake is not possible unless he drops his shield. This mechanic is the end of cupcakes.
  • jobob
    jobob Posts: 680 Critical Contributor
    tizian2015 wrote:
    No it´s not teamwork. You describe situations where people fight against an enemy. But the Tank comes not out of his shelter and cries to its enemies "hit me for your points".
    I'm not sure what your definition of "teamwork" is, but baking requires coordination with your teammates to help you score points as efficiently as possible so that you can outscore other teams. You are still fighting against an "enemy" as much as you are in any other situation in this game (which is never at all). It's always a fight against an AI.
    What you say is: The enemy is the pvp-system and we use teamwork against it. And with that its clear: a) the pvp system is broken b) its cheating, because fighting against the system and not against an ingame enemy is cheating.
    No, that's not what I say... that's what you want me to say because you want it to be cheating. I agree that PVP MMR is broken, but I don't see how that makes baking "cheating." And it's not fighting against the ingame system any more than joining a bracket late or picking an easier time slice. It's knowing how the game works on a deeper level than just matching colors.
    Btw.: Trapcakes are a clear insult of the "cupcake-netiquette". Is it nearly punished as "too-early-attacks against an not shielded cupcaketeam"?
    I'm not sure what you are asking in that second sentence, but I disagree with the first sentence.
  • tizian2015
    tizian2015 Posts: 194 Tile Toppler
    STOPTHIS wrote:
    tizian2015 wrote:
    Baking is cheating. I´m sorry to say this. It´s a not-ingame-way to bypass a broken pvp-system. And its a fatal signal from d3 nothing to do against it respectively not to fix this system. If baking would not be possible, many more players (and I think many whales whose opinion would be crucial for d3) would protest against this broken system, because there are no "easy" 1300 (or more) points for them. Coordinating against an enemy is ok, like teamspeak in several games or ingame-chats, but I know no other game where players coordinate attacks against themselves!

    It's not cheating, it's just working a broken system. And I say that as someone who never has or ever will participated in baking. You're never going to be able to stop people from talking outside of the game, so there needs to be a fix in game. If D3 were to remove or limit points lost for attacks I'd bet there'd be a huge drop in baking, aside from the crazies that want to hit 3000 points every event. Losing 100+ pts during a single match while you're shield hopping is gut wrenching for those really committed. They post their stories here all the time. I don't blame anyone for trying to find a work around.


    Working a broken system is cheating, because you use a broken game mechanic for your advance. In other games this results in a ban.
  • jobob
    jobob Posts: 680 Critical Contributor
    edited September 2016
    tizian2015 wrote:
    Every possible cheat or abuse of game-mechanics was set up by the designers in every other game (because if not it would not exist). Thats not an argument.
    Fair enough point. Just don't go using that same argument to try to prove your own point later.
    The system could be fixed by not allowing several attacks against the same target... This mechanic is the end of cupcakes.
    Oh, man, you done went and did it, and in the same paragraph no less. If the mechanics "being set up by the designers" is not a fair argument for something not being a cheat... then simply putting forth a solution for the designers setting up new mechanics is not a fair argument for calling something a cheat.
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    tizian2015 wrote:
    Baking is cheating.
    You're entitled to think that, regardless of how misguided you are, but why not go make your own editorial post on that topic, instead of derailing the OP by **** all over it with an unsolicited opinion?
  • jobob
    jobob Posts: 680 Critical Contributor
    tizian2015 wrote:
    STOPTHIS wrote:
    Working a broken system is cheating, because you use a broken game mechanic for your advance. In other games this results in a ban.
    Not when the "broken game mechanic" is the ONLY mechanic. And I totally disagree that it gets you bans in other games. I've not played every MMO out there, but I've never seen bans handed out for camping at a specific spawn site and fighting easy monsters for XP all day, when the obvious intention was for players to go out and fight the next story mission.
  • tizian2015
    tizian2015 Posts: 194 Tile Toppler
    jobob wrote:
    tizian2015 wrote:
    No it´s not teamwork. You describe situations where people fight against an enemy. But the Tank comes not out of his shelter and cries to its enemies "hit me for your points".
    I'm not sure what your definition of "teamwork" is, but baking requires coordination with your teammates to help you score points as efficiently as possible so that you can outscore other teams. You are still fighting against an "enemy" as much as you are in any other situation in this game (which is never at all). It's always a fight against an AI.
    What you say is: The enemy is the pvp-system and we use teamwork against it. And with that its clear: a) the pvp system is broken b) its cheating, because fighting against the system and not against an ingame enemy is cheating.
    No, that's not what I say... that's what you want me to say because you want it to be cheating. I agree that PVP MMR is broken, but I don't see how that makes baking "cheating." And it's not fighting against the ingame system any more than joining a bracket late or picking an easier time slice. It's knowing how the game works on a deeper level than just matching colors.
    Btw.: Trapcakes are a clear insult of the "cupcake-netiquette". Is it nearly punished as "too-early-attacks against an not shielded cupcaketeam"?
    I'm not sure what you are asking in that second sentence, but I disagree with the first sentence.

    You say, you are fighting against the system with this coordination, so the system is the enemy. So the only possible interpretation is mine, not yours, regardless what you want to say.

    Knowing the mechanic of a broken system and abuse it is cheating. Period.
  • tizian2015
    tizian2015 Posts: 194 Tile Toppler
    simonsez wrote:
    tizian2015 wrote:
    Baking is cheating.
    You're entitled to think that, regardless of how misguided you are, but why not go make your own editorial post on that topic, instead of derailing the OP by tinykitty all over it with an unsolicited opinion?


    Because the OP wants a manual for cheating imho. So this discussion is part of this thread.
  • jobob
    jobob Posts: 680 Critical Contributor
    tizian2015 wrote:
    So the only possible interpretation is mine, not yours, regardless what you want to say.
    Cool. You should've just said that from the beginning. When people say that theirs is "the only possibly interpretation" (which I read in an Adam West Batman voice, btw), I know to stop offering other interpretations.
  • Ruinate
    Ruinate Posts: 528 Critical Contributor
    tizian2015 wrote:
    mohio wrote:
    tizian2015 wrote:
    Baking is cheating. I´m sorry to say this. It´s a not-ingame-way to bypass a broken pvp-system. And its a fatal signal from d3 nothing to do against it respectively not to fix this system. If baking would not be possible, many more players (and I think many whales whose opinion would be crucial for d3) would protest against this broken system, because there are no "easy" 1300 (or more) points for them. Coordinating against an enemy is ok, like teamspeak in several games or ingame-chats, but I know no other game where players coordinate attacks against themselves!
    First of all - it's clearly not cheating. D3 has set up a system where this type of thing works, players figured it out, and so they use (you might say abuse) it to their advantage. Second of all, how would you propose fixing this system? Without a point threshold where you can be seen by anyone you could have certain mini rosters scoring as many points as they want because no one else can queue them to take them down. There has to be this check in the system or else matchmaking would completely break down.

    Every possible cheat or abuse of game-mechanics was set up by the designers in every other game (because if not it would not exist). Thats not an argument. The system could be fixed by not allowing several attacks against the same target. If a target is attacked, its no more visible for you, you have to look again for it (when its out of the fight) and pls correct me if im wrong this means the shielded cupcake will only attacked by one other player and with shield its not visible for others after the shielding so another search for the cupcake is not possible unless he drops his shield. This mechanic is the end of cupcakes.

    You don't know how caking works or the pvp system for that matter but you derail the thread into yet another for/against baking. OP didn't ask you for your opinion but yes, lets do what you say and shrink mmr even smaller. That's a great **** idea. You should be a game designer with that level of insight.
  • tizian2015
    tizian2015 Posts: 194 Tile Toppler
    Ruinate wrote:
    tizian2015 wrote:
    mohio wrote:
    tizian2015 wrote:
    Baking is cheating. I´m sorry to say this. It´s a not-ingame-way to bypass a broken pvp-system. And its a fatal signal from d3 nothing to do against it respectively not to fix this system. If baking would not be possible, many more players (and I think many whales whose opinion would be crucial for d3) would protest against this broken system, because there are no "easy" 1300 (or more) points for them. Coordinating against an enemy is ok, like teamspeak in several games or ingame-chats, but I know no other game where players coordinate attacks against themselves!
    First of all - it's clearly not cheating. D3 has set up a system where this type of thing works, players figured it out, and so they use (you might say abuse) it to their advantage. Second of all, how would you propose fixing this system? Without a point threshold where you can be seen by anyone you could have certain mini rosters scoring as many points as they want because no one else can queue them to take them down. There has to be this check in the system or else matchmaking would completely break down.

    Every possible cheat or abuse of game-mechanics was set up by the designers in every other game (because if not it would not exist). Thats not an argument. The system could be fixed by not allowing several attacks against the same target. If a target is attacked, its no more visible for you, you have to look again for it (when its out of the fight) and pls correct me if im wrong this means the shielded cupcake will only attacked by one other player and with shield its not visible for others after the shielding so another search for the cupcake is not possible unless he drops his shield. This mechanic is the end of cupcakes.

    You don't know how caking works or the pvp system for that matter but you derail the thread into yet another for/against baking. OP didn't ask you for your opinion but yes, lets do what you say and shrink mmr even smaller. That's a great tinykitty idea. You should be a game designer with that level of insight.


    I know that with this matter many people get more easy points then they deserve, get too high progression, resulting in too high rewards, which is a defintion of cheating.
  • drcassino
    drcassino Posts: 141 Tile Toppler
    You know, if folks are really just interested in the mechanics of it, and not the debate about it, it's in the FAQ. If you want more info, check there.

    I've resisted putting anything about trapcakes up because it seems closer to an exploit (esp. when used in LRs) that might be closed by the devs if they thought it was widespread. Is this a valid concern, or should I just write it up for the FAQ to avoid confusion about them?
This discussion has been closed.

Categories