tizian2015 wrote: Coordinating against an enemy is ok, like teamspeak in several games or ingame-chats, but I know no other game where players coordinate attacks against themselves!
tizian2015 wrote: Baking is cheating. I´m sorry to say this. It´s a not-ingame-way to bypass a broken pvp-system. And its a fatal signal from d3 nothing to do against it respectively not to fix this system. If baking would not be possible, many more players (and I think many whales whose opinion would be crucial for d3) would protest against this broken system, because there are no "easy" 1300 (or more) points for them. Coordinating against an enemy is ok, like teamspeak in several games or ingame-chats, but I know no other game where players coordinate attacks against themselves!
jobob wrote: tizian2015 wrote: Coordinating against an enemy is ok, like teamspeak in several games or ingame-chats, but I know no other game where players coordinate attacks against themselves! It's just teamwork. It's like laying down covering fire in an FPS, or having a mage constantly healing your tank in an MMO. Plus, there are times you are baking for no one's benefit but your own... i.e. if you are putting out a trap cake to entice weaker players to hit you to farm retals. In the end, I don't see it as cheating.
mohio wrote: tizian2015 wrote: Baking is cheating. I´m sorry to say this. It´s a not-ingame-way to bypass a broken pvp-system. And its a fatal signal from d3 nothing to do against it respectively not to fix this system. If baking would not be possible, many more players (and I think many whales whose opinion would be crucial for d3) would protest against this broken system, because there are no "easy" 1300 (or more) points for them. Coordinating against an enemy is ok, like teamspeak in several games or ingame-chats, but I know no other game where players coordinate attacks against themselves! First of all - it's clearly not cheating. D3 has set up a system where this type of thing works, players figured it out, and so they use (you might say abuse) it to their advantage. Second of all, how would you propose fixing this system? Without a point threshold where you can be seen by anyone you could have certain mini rosters scoring as many points as they want because no one else can queue them to take them down. There has to be this check in the system or else matchmaking would completely break down.
tizian2015 wrote: No it´s not teamwork. You describe situations where people fight against an enemy. But the Tank comes not out of his shelter and cries to its enemies "hit me for your points".
What you say is: The enemy is the pvp-system and we use teamwork against it. And with that its clear: a) the pvp system is broken b) its cheating, because fighting against the system and not against an ingame enemy is cheating.
Btw.: Trapcakes are a clear insult of the "cupcake-netiquette". Is it nearly punished as "too-early-attacks against an not shielded cupcaketeam"?
STOPTHIS wrote: tizian2015 wrote: Baking is cheating. I´m sorry to say this. It´s a not-ingame-way to bypass a broken pvp-system. And its a fatal signal from d3 nothing to do against it respectively not to fix this system. If baking would not be possible, many more players (and I think many whales whose opinion would be crucial for d3) would protest against this broken system, because there are no "easy" 1300 (or more) points for them. Coordinating against an enemy is ok, like teamspeak in several games or ingame-chats, but I know no other game where players coordinate attacks against themselves! It's not cheating, it's just working a broken system. And I say that as someone who never has or ever will participated in baking. You're never going to be able to stop people from talking outside of the game, so there needs to be a fix in game. If D3 were to remove or limit points lost for attacks I'd bet there'd be a huge drop in baking, aside from the crazies that want to hit 3000 points every event. Losing 100+ pts during a single match while you're shield hopping is gut wrenching for those really committed. They post their stories here all the time. I don't blame anyone for trying to find a work around.
tizian2015 wrote: Every possible cheat or abuse of game-mechanics was set up by the designers in every other game (because if not it would not exist). Thats not an argument.
The system could be fixed by not allowing several attacks against the same target... This mechanic is the end of cupcakes.
tizian2015 wrote: Baking is cheating.
tizian2015 wrote: STOPTHIS wrote: Working a broken system is cheating, because you use a broken game mechanic for your advance. In other games this results in a ban.
STOPTHIS wrote: Working a broken system is cheating, because you use a broken game mechanic for your advance. In other games this results in a ban.
jobob wrote: tizian2015 wrote: No it´s not teamwork. You describe situations where people fight against an enemy. But the Tank comes not out of his shelter and cries to its enemies "hit me for your points". I'm not sure what your definition of "teamwork" is, but baking requires coordination with your teammates to help you score points as efficiently as possible so that you can outscore other teams. You are still fighting against an "enemy" as much as you are in any other situation in this game (which is never at all). It's always a fight against an AI. What you say is: The enemy is the pvp-system and we use teamwork against it. And with that its clear: a) the pvp system is broken b) its cheating, because fighting against the system and not against an ingame enemy is cheating. No, that's not what I say... that's what you want me to say because you want it to be cheating. I agree that PVP MMR is broken, but I don't see how that makes baking "cheating." And it's not fighting against the ingame system any more than joining a bracket late or picking an easier time slice. It's knowing how the game works on a deeper level than just matching colors. Btw.: Trapcakes are a clear insult of the "cupcake-netiquette". Is it nearly punished as "too-early-attacks against an not shielded cupcaketeam"? I'm not sure what you are asking in that second sentence, but I disagree with the first sentence.
simonsez wrote: tizian2015 wrote: Baking is cheating. You're entitled to think that, regardless of how misguided you are, but why not go make your own editorial post on that topic, instead of derailing the OP by tinykitty all over it with an unsolicited opinion?
tizian2015 wrote: So the only possible interpretation is mine, not yours, regardless what you want to say.
tizian2015 wrote: mohio wrote: tizian2015 wrote: Baking is cheating. I´m sorry to say this. It´s a not-ingame-way to bypass a broken pvp-system. And its a fatal signal from d3 nothing to do against it respectively not to fix this system. If baking would not be possible, many more players (and I think many whales whose opinion would be crucial for d3) would protest against this broken system, because there are no "easy" 1300 (or more) points for them. Coordinating against an enemy is ok, like teamspeak in several games or ingame-chats, but I know no other game where players coordinate attacks against themselves! First of all - it's clearly not cheating. D3 has set up a system where this type of thing works, players figured it out, and so they use (you might say abuse) it to their advantage. Second of all, how would you propose fixing this system? Without a point threshold where you can be seen by anyone you could have certain mini rosters scoring as many points as they want because no one else can queue them to take them down. There has to be this check in the system or else matchmaking would completely break down. Every possible cheat or abuse of game-mechanics was set up by the designers in every other game (because if not it would not exist). Thats not an argument. The system could be fixed by not allowing several attacks against the same target. If a target is attacked, its no more visible for you, you have to look again for it (when its out of the fight) and pls correct me if im wrong this means the shielded cupcake will only attacked by one other player and with shield its not visible for others after the shielding so another search for the cupcake is not possible unless he drops his shield. This mechanic is the end of cupcakes.
Ruinate wrote: tizian2015 wrote: mohio wrote: tizian2015 wrote: Baking is cheating. I´m sorry to say this. It´s a not-ingame-way to bypass a broken pvp-system. And its a fatal signal from d3 nothing to do against it respectively not to fix this system. If baking would not be possible, many more players (and I think many whales whose opinion would be crucial for d3) would protest against this broken system, because there are no "easy" 1300 (or more) points for them. Coordinating against an enemy is ok, like teamspeak in several games or ingame-chats, but I know no other game where players coordinate attacks against themselves! First of all - it's clearly not cheating. D3 has set up a system where this type of thing works, players figured it out, and so they use (you might say abuse) it to their advantage. Second of all, how would you propose fixing this system? Without a point threshold where you can be seen by anyone you could have certain mini rosters scoring as many points as they want because no one else can queue them to take them down. There has to be this check in the system or else matchmaking would completely break down. Every possible cheat or abuse of game-mechanics was set up by the designers in every other game (because if not it would not exist). Thats not an argument. The system could be fixed by not allowing several attacks against the same target. If a target is attacked, its no more visible for you, you have to look again for it (when its out of the fight) and pls correct me if im wrong this means the shielded cupcake will only attacked by one other player and with shield its not visible for others after the shielding so another search for the cupcake is not possible unless he drops his shield. This mechanic is the end of cupcakes. You don't know how caking works or the pvp system for that matter but you derail the thread into yet another for/against baking. OP didn't ask you for your opinion but yes, lets do what you say and shrink mmr even smaller. That's a great tinykitty idea. You should be a game designer with that level of insight.