***** Black Widow (Natasha Romanoff) *****

KingDreadnaught

Polares wrote:

notamutant wrote:

https://youtu.be/_wuQq1fjors

My latest character analysis video for Black Widow. Her passive stun is useless for Spider-Man. The enemy is stunned on their turn, which means when it becomes your turn, they are no longer stunned. Really stupid design. They should've given it a two turn stun. One time BSS stunned me, and the random stun targeted the BSS that just stunned me, but missed because he was invisible. Pathetic. Her moves are too expensive and conditions both difficult to meet and annoying to keep track of if you want a quick match.

The stun needs to be a mistake on Devs part, I really hope so, because like that I totally agree is useless :S

KingDreadnaught wrote:

1. Purple. Her damage on Purple is lower than expected and erase ONLY 3 enemy special tiles (Let's called it Special except Invisible)...
I would suggest to leave her AP Cost as 12 or even increase it to 15 BUT, the reducing cost should be included enemy Strikes, Protects, Attack Tiles down to minimum of 7. Up her based 450 LV damage to 10,000-12,000 wouldn't make her too powerful to cost 7. Look at Silver Surf, 7 Red for 18000 with charged tiles is quite the same.

Cof, coff, coff, SS at 450 just does 8k dmg, 18k dmg must be at 550

So then 7 AP for 12k dmg + erase 3 special is way better than SS red, this is way it is just countdowns. It is still very good against GG or IM46, meh against any other 5.

That's right, my bad. However, it's still fair to me though. Haha.

Vhailorx

The stun thing may be working as intended, IF the idea is not to give the player a whole turn offensively, but merely to act as a defensive power that makes stun attacks on anyone other than 5bw risky (because one of your characters is going to get stunned, and it's random).

Not saying that's a particularly valuable feature, just that There is a plausible rationale for doing it this way.

notamutant

Vhailorx wrote:

The stun thing may be working as intended, IF the idea is not to give the player a whole turn offensively, but merely to act as a defensive power that makes stun attacks on anyone other than 5bw risky (because one of your characters is going to get stunned, and it's random).

Not saying that's a particularly valuable feature, just that There is a plausible rationale for doing it this way.

But its not really risky using stun on a character that is not BW. Just leave your stun move to the end of your turn. At most, you lose out on match damage. I suppose the AI might not do that, but it is still useless in 99% of scenarios. Remember, the main stunner in 5-star land is BSS, and he becomes invisible before the random stun, so it wouldn't even be able to stop him from using his blue twice in a row.

ThatOneGuyjp189512

Cthulhu wrote:

Level 3: Deals 12321 damage and drains 2 random AP if ally below 20% and deal an extra 6384 damage. Level 4: Deals 12321 damage and drains 4 random AP if ally below 20% and deal an extra 8960 damage. Level 5: Deals 14114 damage and drains 4 random AP if ally is below 20% health, and deal an extra 8960 damage.[/color]

[/list][/list]

literally my only question is: why'd you add is only to the last one?

Polares

KingDreadnaught wrote:

That's right, my bad. However, it's still fair to me though. Haha.

Yeah I agree, it is SS who should be fixed

They could change red to be similar to Scarlett, like 11 AP for 12k dmg, reduce 1 AP for every charged tile on the board (minimum 7). That would be cool, and would also make some sense that a character that creates charged tiles benefits from them.

Calnexin

Am I alone in thinking that Black Widow should not be a 5* character?

Yes, this is a game, so the narrative of the comics takes a back seat. But even in the back seat, it's still there, asking you whether we're there yet.

The 5* tier was introduced with Silver Surfer. That seems appropriate. He's imbued with the power of a near-god. OML - kind of a stretch, but a scrapper with hundreds of years' worth of combat experience, you can justify that. Phoenix - yes. A being with the power to destroy the universe. Makes sense. Black Bolt - King of the inhumans, capable of mass destruction if he says "hi".

Widow is a highly trained superspy, but with no superhuman powers. We're to believe that she could go toe-to-toe with Silver Surfer or the Phoenix? Her sex appeal and acrobatic ability are equivalent to the power cosmic or the phoenix force?

Once again - Yeah, I get it's a game and they're trying to create interesting characters. It just feels like the narrative is so far gone it's becoming un-Marvel-like. They're just picking random characters to fill these roles.

Cousin Simpson

Her black might actually be enough that she might be the first usable 5* I have at 1 cover.

MunitionsFrenzy

I'm nowhere near being a 5* player, so she's totally irrelevant for me, but still...I just drew her today from a Legendary token and immediately noticed that she's not on Team Iron Man as her lower-tier versions are. Fix so people can properly play her with 5* Iron Man? I mean, this is the version that's based on the Civil War film AND it's the version that's in the same rarity tier as Civil War Iron Man, so that's a bit of a flavor fail.... :P

Dunamis101

Tell Me Everything - 10  AP
Black Widow finds the enemy’s secrets and dismantles their carefully laid plans. Deals 557 damage and remove up to 4 random enemy Strike, Protect, Attack and Countdown tiles.

(Removes 4 enemy tiles at 5 covers, honestly I think she should be able to remove invisibility tiles as well, since her persona involves stealth and espionage)

Acrobatic Takedown - 12 AP
Black Widow turns her enemy’s strength against them and strikes. Deals 2787 damage. If the enemy has at least 10 AP in any color, deal and additional 1505 damage. If this downs an enemy, destroy 4 enemy AP in a random color.

Red in My Ledger - 10 AP
Black Widow pays her debts. Deals 2090 damage. If any allies are below 40% health, drain 2 random enemy AP and deal an extra 1588 damage.

*(PASSIVE) Whenever one of Black Widow’s allies is stunned, stun the enemy team for 1 turn.*

*(Like Jean Grey's Psychic Feedback, a 1.5 turn stun)

Those are the changes I would make for her. While still trying to be balanced.

Some team ideas...
1) BW 544/ BB 553/ Strange 535 (5* team)
2) BW 544/ Hulk 535/ Strange 535 (5*team)
3) BW 544/ BB 553/ Peggy 355 or 4*Cyc 355
4) BW 544/ BSS 553/ IM40 (5 in yelow)
5) BW 544/ Ice 553/ IM40
6) BW 544/ 4*Cyc 355/ 4*Jean 535
7) BW 544/ Quake 535/ IM40

amusingfoo1

I've been playing with her recently, and I find her very effective. For one match. By the end of it, she's usually into range to get off the kicker on her black by herself. And then she takes forever to heal up. She's fun for that one match, though.

sambrookjm

Wow...eighteen months, and not a single post about her?  I came looking in this thread because I just champed her (Cover #13 from the Heroes for Hire in the latest PvE got her to 5/5/3) and was looking for some good advice about teammates/builds.  I'm guessing since she shares all three colors with Gambit, she's been relegated to the dustbin of MPQ history?

Bowgentle

BlackBoltRocks said:

 Her general best standalone build is 5/4/4; Red and Black get minimal gains going from 4 to 5 covers

So does purple.
I run 4/4/5 because it doesn't matter anyway, you're never going to use her outside of PVE when she's boosted.

sambrookjm

BlackBoltRocks said:

She has some synergy with Black Bolt (if you have him champed) because those two are only missing Blue, and Bolt can somewhat accelerate Widow if he creates R/B/P Charged tiles. But her powers are kinda expensive, which somewhat dooms her in this fast-paced environment. She can definitely pack a punch though; she just takes awhile to get there. Her general best standalone build is 5/4/4; Red and Black get minimal gains going from 4 to 5 covers

My Black Bolt is 5/1/2 (technically a 6/1/2, thanks to the Medusa bonus cover) so charged tiles aren't something he's going to do very easily for me.

I was thinking 5/3/5 since my other two champed 5-stars are Strange (who can use Purple, but rarely does) and Thor (Red).  She's the active black user for the team, so that should be 5.  Her Red only gains an additional 2K base damage going from 3-5, and it's very rare the 12 AP bonus damage will kick in.  Thor's gets an extra 3K from 3-5 and ignores protect tiles, so his red is probably the one I'd use.  BW's purple will remove countdowns which Strange's does not, and can cost considerably less.

sambrookjm

After using her for the latest PvE, I think the closest comparison in the 4-star realm I can come up with to Black Widow is Kate Bishop.  Slow to get going, but she really packs a punch once you can fire off her abilities.  The cost reduction for her purple was nice against all of the Mindless Ones.  I did get the extra bonus from her red a couple of times, but that was because there were so many green countdown tiles out there, the three Mindless ones had 30 green AP, just waiting for an open tile for them to use.

Still, since she shares all three colors with Gambit, and she can only fire off her black when they're teamed up, she's going to be on the back shelf for nearly every match.

sinnerjfl

I use her from time to time even if not boosted in PVE, she's a good third wheel and her purple can certainly help out dealing with annoying CD tile spammers.

I just wish purple would let you pick which special you remove...  That'd be a neat little buff.

sambrookjm

Found out today that her purple can remove special Environmental tiles, like the Dark Energy Geysers and Energy Surges in Honor Among Thieves.  They also count as "enemy" countdowns for reducing the cost of her purple.  So for a change, the hazard tiles not being "neutral" is actually helpful!

I've been running her at 5/3/5, since I generally use her with Thor and Strange. Thor's red is better, so the other two get 5 by default.