Why are there progression cutoffs?

GrumpySmurf1002

Why is the 25CP cutoff the end of PvP/PvE/Season progression? And why is it set at levels easily achievable (for elder players)? Logically, it makes no sense that you'd ever want to play an event once you've achieved the progression. Placement and ego are driving forces, but are those really player friendly ideas?

The argument for longer PvE progression ties to the argument for progression only rewards. Leaders in HoD had around 85k, give or take. Put the progression up to 85k, and make the rewards worth it from 42k -> 85k, including whatever placement rewards would be there. All those saying equal work should be equal rewards? There's your solution. Put the finite point system back in, set a number, and let people go get it if they want to. Need a difficulty barrier? Make the final node level 400+ JG-4Cyc-PX for everyone, every event. That'll do it.

For PvP, 1300 is laughable for some slices, sometimes barely T100 material. When part of your player base is scoring 3500 (and thus spending lots of money to do so), it would seem logical to give them something beyond bragging rights for doing that. Progression to 2k, 3k, even 4k or 5k makes lots more sense than 1300.

Season is the biggest one. How is 10k the cutoff? The individual event progression alone (incl Sim) adds to 15000. These should go to at least 30k. Same pretense above - if you have players that will do it, they should be rewarded for doing so.

/end rant.

TxMoose

not sure i want them messing with extending progressions unless they leave the 25cp where they are. i have no confidence in them doing so. they ALWAYS like to put the big reward at the end. I'm so burned out from pve right now I'm actually tanking for the first time in my mpq career. I've taken an event off or 2 but I'm tanking until i get a noob bracket at this point. i agree that some extra stuff needs to be thrown in higher - especially in pvp. some iso chunks at 1150 and 1400 or 1500 would be great.

GrumpySmurf1002

TxMoose wrote:

not sure i want them messing with extending progressions unless they leave the 25cp where they are. i have no confidence in them doing so. they ALWAYS like to put the big reward at the end. I'm so burned out from pve right now I'm actually tanking for the first time in my mpq career. I've taken an event off or 2 but I'm tanking until i get a noob bracket at this point. i agree that some extra stuff needs to be thrown in higher - especially in pvp. some iso chunks at 1150 and 1400 or 1500 would be great.

Yeah, guess I should've added that, but I'm saying in addition to existing progression, which should remain untouched. There are bigger rewards than 25CP.

mpqr7

I would not move the finish line further away. But I would certainly add even better prizes beyond the 25 cp, which takes plenty of time and effort to reach already.

Some of my ideas include:

* Each match beyond top progression gives you double iso.
* Extra prize every X points, such as more cp, event tokens, heroic tokens, hp, iso

Certainly people who go beyond the current final progression reward deserve continuous prizes for that. It doesn't make sense to put in tons of effort and earn 2x to 3x progression (or more) just to win one or two extra covers (or not, if your placement is still lower than you thought it would be).

wymtime

I do remember when progression was tied much higher to the point where only a handful of people could reach max progression rewards. They lowred the progression after players complained that even though they were playing a lot they could not make max progression (a garunteed 3* cover). They lowered the progression to make it acheivable for most now.
It is 4 clears for max progression reward. I would actually rather see an alliance progression reward system introduced instead of further personal progression rewards. By keeping max progression lower it allows vets to gain the 25 CP and let's players who reap want the placement rewards to keep going.
By adding alliance progression rewards it promotes team game play and a reason for the whole all Nice to take part in events. Imagine a 4* cover at the end of an alliance progression reward with some ISO, HP, and 2 and 3* covers sprinkled in. It does not have to be a crazy high scores either but reasonable scores.

Stax the Foyer

I just made a suggestion in another thread to decouple progression awards from events, at least CP progression awards in PvE events. Just have an independent progression counter, like season rewards that tick over and start again once you cleared it.

It would be a windfall for people who grind hard in PvE and PvP, sure, but it would help everyone. You can only make 600 points each PvP event? You'll get your 25 CP every few events. You hit twice the progression in PvE? You get double CP.

It's probably an easier sell on the PvE side, where there's a hard cutoff. Some people will make more CP, but there's an upper bound.

However, I don't think it's crazy to have it on the PvP side either, even if there were some softcap implemented to keep people from getting 100 CP per event. Or on the PvP side you could have ISO rewards on the permanent progression chain, rather than CP, and leave the CP as an event progression.

Either way, it would provide some incentive for progression beyond the current limit in the current event, while still providing a significant benefit to people who don't hit high progression awards. I think it would be a win-win change.

GrumpySmurf1002

Stax the Foyer wrote:

Either way, it would provide some incentive for progression beyond the current limit in the current event, while still providing a significant benefit to people who don't hit high progression awards. I think it would be a win-win change.

I like your idea, but I'm more focused on the other rewards (though more CP in progression would also be nice).

If 10k iso is really a 4* reward as it's card in the vault would tell you, there's no reason it can't be at 2000 in PvP, or 20000 in season, or 1.25 progression in PvE.

Same thing for hp? 2500 pts, 25000, 1.5 progression.

You can still sprinkle in the lesser rewards (500iso, 25HP) at 1500, 1750, or every 3-5k points in PvE.

With how this game is designed, if they're concerned with not blowing out the resources for the early game, then the only way to gate it is to put them up in places where only vets can get at them.

TimGunn

I would a 4 star card reward in PVE

Maybe after the 25 CP prize there could be regular interval prizes which are the random prize from daily reward. Every 300 points in PVP get random prize. Wouldn't be much, but better than what we have now!

LordXberk

I hear these arguments and I would love for them to add rewards above the current cut-offs; however, what is the incentive for them to change it? Simply to be more player-friendly? You already have people doing PVE way past max progression bcs the placement system is jacked up and people going way past 1300 per PVP event and 10k per season (myself included) just bcs they want to or to be in a top alliance. From the Devs' perspective, why would they feel the need to change this?

OneLastGambit

Please don't give suggestions that can be interpreted by d3 as "please make it harder"

A quick skim of the OP makes it read as though he's unhappy the max prog is so low.

Ralph-Wiggum

How about PvE season progression awards akin to the PvP season awards. Seems like that would motivate people to play past the 25 CP award in each event.

Fightmastermpq

Why are there even max progression rewards? You should keep getting rewarded if you keep progressing. Set something up like the 5* champ rewards where every 5k points past the current max progression is ISO/CP/HP/Cover - indefinitely.

carrion_pigeons

Personally, I'm pretty happy with the current structure. Not to say I wouldn't like them to buff rewards, but giving people a reason to grind more is not something I'd want to see. The idea of decoupling progression rewards from events is one I've suggested a couple times and I still really like it, though. It would need to have a limiter on it to prevent it from being abused, like one reset per event, max, though. Otherwise you'd suddenly have top level players doubling or tripling their CP income (which would only make their Iso shortage worse).

simonsez

carrion pigeons wrote:

giving people a reason to grind more is not something I'd want to see.

This isn't about giving people a reason to grind more, it's about giving people something in return for all the grinding they're already doing.

Ratboy

It would be nice to at least get ISO based on how many points you have over the top progression rewards. Something like for every 10% over you receive 500 ISO. So if top progression is 30,000 and you even up with 60,000 at the end of the event you receive an extra 5000 ISO.

carrion_pigeons

simonsez wrote:

carrion pigeons wrote:

giving people a reason to grind more is not something I'd want to see.

This isn't about giving people a reason to grind more, it's about giving people something in return for all the grinding they're already doing.

Which would be fine and dandy, except for the fact that the OP's proposal also encourages more grinding from people who aren't currently doing it. People who are grinding for placement don't need more people competing with them who are only incidentally in the placement race because of progression rewards. In fact, the fact that the new system puts more pressure on those people than the old system did is the single largest complaint about the new system on these boards.

simonsez

carrion pigeons wrote:

Which would be fine and dandy, except for the fact that the OP's proposal also encourages more grinding from people who aren't currently doing it.

Thanks for protecting them from themselves at the expense of everyone else who's already getting days' worth of no progression awards.

JamieMadrox

The answer I was given whenever I'd bring up the topic with IceIX is that if they extended progressions out then players would feel obligated to hit those targets. This is fine for slices that hit 3k and 4k regularly, but there are slices where 1300 can be a struggle and 2k is impossible. The players in the harder slices would feel less accomplished.

GrumpySmurf1002

carrion pigeons wrote:

People who are grinding for placement don't need more people competing with them who are only incidentally in the placement race because of progression rewards. In fact, the fact that the new system puts more pressure on those people than the old system did is the single largest complaint about the new system on these boards.

So, if I've got this straight, you're pro-new PvE system because more people can compete for prizes, but you're against my proposal because more people will be competing for prizes? Even though both are accidental competition?

GrumpySmurf1002

Jamie Madrox wrote:

The answer I was given whenever I'd bring up the topic with IceIX is that if they extended progressions out then players would feel obligated to hit those targets. This is fine for slices that hit 3k and 4k regularly, but there are slices where 1300 can be a struggle and 2k is impossible. The players in the harder slices would feel less accomplished.

I suppose that makes sense as a PvP argument, though I don't agree with it. But again, 1300 per event + 2k sim is 15k, why does season stop at 10k?

That also doesn't explain why PvE stops so early.

simonsez

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

That also doesn't explain why PvE stops so early.

But we know why that happens. Just count every post on this board that complains that the 25CP is too hard to hit.