Time to Re-Visit Slice Options

TimGunn

I was thinking now that PVE paradigm has changed, the slice options need to change as well.

New optimal strategy is (i) complete four clears when sub opens and (ii) complete 3-4 (more?) clears 1-1.5 hours before sub closes.

This means a lot of grinding immediately before and immediately after a sub opens.

As a player in US east coast my options are:

Slice 1: Opens 7:00 am; grind 6:00 am - 9:00 am
Slice 2: Opens 12:00 noon; grind 11:00 am - 2:00 pm
Slice 3: Opens 5:00 pm; grind 4:00 pm - 7:00 pm
Slice 4: Opens 11:00 pm; grind 10:00 pm - 1:00 am
Slice 5: Opens 2:00 am; grind 1:00 am - 4:00 am

Basically NONE of those options are ideal if you work a 9:00 to 5:00 job and want to go to bed before 1:00 am!!!! Would like a 9:00 pm option (grinding between 8:00 pm and 11:00 pm).

Now I know the PVE system is designed so you can play whenever you want; HOWEVER, if you want to get optimal points, you will need to follow the above strategy and are still beholden to the timing set by the slice options.

Not sure how it lines up in other time zones, but the devs should give US east coasters at least one choice which is convenient for 9-5 workers. (the devs live in this time zone!)

Maybe someone could create a poll for forum visitors to pick top choice for a slice?

gravel

I'm having the same issue, and I've heard from a few others that none of the current times are ideal for them.

fmftint

Same boat here, none of the current slices are ideal for competitive play on the east coast

stochasticism

None of the slices are ideal for competitive play on the West Coast either.

simonsez

stochasticism wrote:

None of the slices are ideal for competitive play on the West Coast either.

fmftint wrote:

Same boat here, none of the current slices are ideal for competitive play on the east coast

If one needs a 4-5hr block of time for competitive play, no slice or time zone will ever be ideal...

Orion

simonsez wrote:

stochasticism wrote:

None of the slices are ideal for competitive play on the West Coast either.

fmftint wrote:

Same boat here, none of the current slices are ideal for competitive play on the east coast

If one needs a 4-5hr block of time for competitive play, no slice or time zone will ever be ideal...

Exactly. I have a wife and kids so I can never have a block of 4 hours to play. Before this new terrible system, at least slice 4 was doable for me in Central Time. But now I'd still have to play until midnight to get 4 clears in as soon as the sub opens. Not going to do that.

Good thing we're not playing to a schedule anymore so none of this matters, right?!? I mean, that was a lie the devs told us, after all.

hodayathink

What's the nicest way I can put this:

This decision is/was about getting the casual players to play more often, even if that means some of the hardcore are going to play less. They're obviously aware of the effect the new system has on competitive play, but they've decided that the trade-off is worth it.

GrumpySmurf1002

hodayathink wrote:

They're obviously aware of the effect the new system has on competitive play, but they've decided that the trade-off is worth it.

That's a bold assumption given they:

a) tested repeatedly with unpopular events and unpopular rewards
b) were shocked that a test with finite points led to a whole bunch of people tying for the max number.

I think they'll further be shocked that the first new release in this system shifts a whole bunch of play towards optimal, and thus on a schedule. Again.

Polares

Well, we all now this moment would come, and it is finally here, and I am sorry to say that it is as bad as we expected.

As most people have already said there are no good time slices anymore for anyone. I am in West Europe and here is the same, I have to play until almost 1 am If I want to do the 4 clears after the sub opens. This is unacceptable.

They designed this new system so the general population of players could live happily without this terrible clock that was making impossible for them to enjoy the game! O malevolent clock! Now there is an implicit clock, but because they dont see it they are happy. Well, maybe those people are happy, but the people that play the most, that pays the more is not!

Ps: And I am not even talking about the scaling. It is so fun having to play against 430 level enemies...

Jarvind

You guys act like quitting your job and dedicating your life to a doofy mobile game is such a big deal. Jeez.

(On a more serious note, one more reason I gave up on placement in PVE a long time ago and only bother with progression)

hodayathink

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

hodayathink wrote:

They're obviously aware of the effect the new system has on competitive play, but they've decided that the trade-off is worth it.

That's a bold assumption given they:

a) tested repeatedly with unpopular events and unpopular rewards
b) were shocked that a test with finite points led to a whole bunch of people tying for the max number.

I think they'll further be shocked that the first new release in this system shifts a whole bunch of play towards optimal, and thus on a schedule. Again.

I don't think they were surprised about the ties. I think they realized that they had never explicitly stated how they were going to break ties (even though the hardcore, i.e. the people on this forum, knew that they were going to be broken by who got there first, they never stated that in game, and that's why they decided to give out T1 prizes to everyone that cleared all nodes). But I don't think they were surprised by the ties in the first place.

And the top players are always going to play on a schedule. No matter what they switched to, the top players would play on a schedule. Even the test that ended up with everyone at the top getting the same amount of points is going to be played on a schedule because the tie-breaker is who got there first. Outside of going to pure progression (which I know the people here want them to do, but it's obvious at this point that they don't want to do), getting the most competitive people to not play on a schedule isn't going to happen, so I don't think that that's the goal they're working towards in the first place. The goal seems to have been to get the semi-casual and casual players to play more often, and at this point, it looks like they've thoroughly succeeded with that (and I don't know how you can say differently with all the anecdotal reports of 4 clears leaving you outside the top 200 when that used to clearly get most people a top 50-100 placement). So the trade-off they had to decide (and are probably still looking at now) is whether having those people play more is worth having some of the old top 50-100 people play less.

wymtime

For time slices I do think it is going to be rough for the final sub. I want to say if they bump up each slice by 1 HR it would be a big improvement. I think 2 hrs for 4 clears is a little slow for top PVE players. In sub one of hearts of darkness I cleared 4 clears on all but the essential nodes in 1 hour. Now I have a really deep roster so that definatly helps. In The old PVE you did 1 clear after you finished each sub. If you bumped up the end time by 1 HR and played for an additional 90 min you can get close or achieve 4 full clears. The real issue is if you really want to be competitive and score top 10 that is 3+ hours of game play 3-7 days in a row. People are just going to burn out and quite the game.
Just do boss battles for new character releases so it is alliance base. 1 cover for max personal progression and 3 covers for alliance progression. This way people will earn the new covers and play PVE for ISO like I do.

simonsez

hodayathink wrote:

What's the nicest way I can put this:

This decision is/was about getting the casual players to play more often

I didn't realize the 8hr timer was essentially a lock on their smartphones...

hodayathink

simonsez wrote:

hodayathink wrote:

What's the nicest way I can put this:

This decision is/was about getting the casual players to play more often

I didn't realize the 8hr timer was essentially a lock on their smartphones...

It doesn't matter how logical their play was or wasn't. It was how they were playing, and this was a method to change that, and it has worked.

Mawtful

hodayathink wrote:

What's the nicest way I can put this:

This decision is/was about getting the casual players to play more often, even if that means some of the hardcore are going to play less. They're obviously aware of the effect the new system has on competitive play, but they've decided that the trade-off is worth it.

Actually, getting hardcore/vet players to play less was probably the primary objective. The "motto" or directive year 3 has been "pay or quit". Veterans are are real thorn for Demiurge & D3 because most of us have established rosters (and aren't generally in a position where we have to quickly buy HP to keep covers) and remember a time where rewards were more readily available; as such, it's veterans who are more likely to push back against increased pressure to spend. MPQ is looking to get a steady stream of naïve newbies, so they can be more easily manipulated into spending money (cf. VIP program).

That's just the state of play now.

carrion_pigeons

The idea that the devs wanted to reduce grinding was explicitly stated in the test pves. Obviously that was always going to mean making optimal grinding undesirable. How else were they going to do it? They actually tried just putting a cap on how much you can play an event and people took it way too far. They tried scaling people out and *everybody* hated that. This is the best option they could come up with that keeps placement as a relevant part of the experience. The only better thing they could have really done is just give up on the idea of placement at all.

The 8hr refreshes sucked. This new system may also not be great but it's a massive improvement.

bluewolf

I just want to make a point regarding the OP. More slices would be nice for many; however, speading players among more slices creates problems for Devs if you can't fill them. Spreading players out among a lot of slices means a lot of half full slices, i suspect. There may be cost/server issues I am not aware of too. I am sure they would add slices if demand/usage warranted.

Polares

carrion pigeons wrote:

The idea that the devs wanted to reduce grinding was explicitly stated in the test pves.

...

The 8hr refreshes sucked. This new system may also not be great but it's a massive improvement.

First, the best way would have been make PvE peogression only, and remove the timer COMPLETELY (no ties, no more need for the clock). This would be a real improvement.

Second, 8h refreshes sucked for you. It was MUCH MUCH better than the horror we have now. Playing 30 min every 8-10 hours and 1:30 at the end was MUCH MUCH better than having to play for 3-4h. PvE now is like a part time job, and we dont get paid for it

bluewolf wrote:

I just want to make a point regarding the OP. More slices would be nice for many; however, speading players among more slices creates problems for Devs if you can't fill them. Spreading players out among a lot of slices means a lot of half full slices, i suspect. There may be cost/server issues I am not aware of too. I am sure they would add slices if demand/usage warranted.

It is just the opposite, more slices would mean less server costs, because cost of servers is based on the maximum load you want to support, so spreading players more always reduces the maximum load.

The real problem is that more slices means that more players get top rewards. And this is what they dont want to do. It is probably the same reason the dont want a Progression only PvE. We all now devs are really cheap with rewards in general...

simonsez

hodayathink wrote:

It doesn't matter how logical their play was or wasn't.

Call me an idealist, but I don't think placating the illogical is ever a solution to a problem, especially when communication and education haven't been tried yet.

bluewolf

I stand corrected....I agree they probably want to limit the spread of covers to some extent. I suppose they have to weigh out covers being distributed leading to roster slot needs vs people spending to compete (boosts, hp Etc). I think competition drives spending a little more.

carrion_pigeons

Polares wrote:

First, the best way would have been make PvE peogression only, and remove the timer COMPLETELY (no ties, no more need for the clock). This would be a real improvement.

I did actually say that in my post so I'm not sure if you're arguing with me or what.

Second, 8h refreshes sucked for you. It was MUCH MUCH better than the horror we have now. Playing 30 min every 8-10 hours and 1:30 at the end was MUCH MUCH better than having to play for 3-4h. PvE now is like a part time job, and we dont get paid for it

No. This is objectively better and the evidence is in the engagement levels of the playerbase. Whether or not I personally prefer it is irrelevant. Again, the style of play you describe that optimizes points is SUPPOSED to be awful, because they want to minimize the number of players who do it.