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Dragon_Nexus

I think I was actually happier before.
I mean, the 8 hour tier could be a bit of a pest when it came to going to work and stuff, but I liked doing a single clear when the event opened, one before bed, one when I woke up and then some more before work. I'd do pretty well there and it was kinda relaxing.

Now a sub event opens and I feel compelled to beat each node four times before I can stop and it takes ages and is pretty damn dull. Not to mention it's right after spending an hour or so grinding down the previous sub event. Instead of spreading this out over a day it's now lumped into one solid chunk of the day of my choosing.

I'm reminded of the waiting staff at the hotel I stayed in recently. They work pretty much 7am to 10pm Monday to Sunday for 7 months and then get 5 months holiday. Now, overall that probably balances out to your average joe's full time job, only they have to do it all at once then take all their holiday, days off and not-at-work time all at once.

DFiPL

MarvelMan wrote:

DFiPL wrote:

I never worried about placement, although I was usually a top 10 finisher.

I think this could be the disconnect. If you played from the first sub, even suboptimally, you hit max progression if you did 3-4 randomly spaced clears. If you were T10 and didnt hit max progression, you were bracket sniping, which is a given that you wont hit max progression. At least that is the only scenario where I can see it happening.

That was a typo. I was usually T100. My keyboard hates me and didn't register the second 0 press.

revskip

Vhailorx wrote:

Revskip: placement is much more dependent upon the perceived value of the rewards than on scoring system.

In a game like this. Its best to just accept that there is always someone willing to grind or spend more. Let's see how easy top 10 is when a desirable new character is released.

Herald: IMO the new system is basically treading water for casual players and much much worse for competitive players. The ease of recent progression rewards is unrelated to the scoring system. The max progs have been low (a cynic might think that demi is doing this on purpose to foster good will for the new system). If they stay low that's good for everyone. But there is no particular reason to expect that.

Looking at a top ten finish in tonight's sub, top twenty at the absolute worst. In a new character release, without grinding a single node past check marks actually have a couple of clears left in one of the nodes but might skip it so I have full healthpacks for the next sub tonight. I jumped into the bracket I am in real late too, 750ish so no edge from having a little head start. In the old system my late start would have bled a lot more points and even with check marks I'd be looking at top 50 at best.

Maybe all the vets who claimed they were gonna pack up and leave if this became the new norm actually did it. Except for the fact that I see many of the same names on my leaderboard. The difference being that people who couldn't schedule their clears to get to checkmarks before now actually have more points leading to better results. So for those players (myself included) I'd have to say you're wrong about it being worse for competitive players. It is certainly worse for those who like to break up their play sessions in 8 hour intervals. For those of us who prefer just getting to check marks without a clock it is definitely better in terms of placement.

Vhailorx

Revskip:

Playing for checkmarks means playing 3ish hours a day or more (just on pve). I guess I didn't think there was many people who care enough about the game to play it that much, but not enough to make the 8 hour timers work somehow.

carrion_pigeons

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

I think I was actually happier before.
I mean, the 8 hour tier could be a bit of a pest when it came to going to work and stuff, but I liked doing a single clear when the event opened, one before bed, one when I woke up and then some more before work. I'd do pretty well there and it was kinda relaxing.

Now a sub event opens and I feel compelled to beat each node four times before I can stop and it takes ages and is pretty damn dull. Not to mention it's right after spending an hour or so grinding down the previous sub event. Instead of spreading this out over a day it's now lumped into one solid chunk of the day of my choosing.

I'm reminded of the waiting staff at the hotel I stayed in recently. They work pretty much 7am to 10pm Monday to Sunday for 7 months and then get 5 months holiday. Now, overall that probably balances out to your average joe's full time job, only they have to do it all at once then take all their holiday, days off and not-at-work time all at once.

Considering that discouraging people from grinding optimally was an actual design goal of the new system, it sounds like it's working. In my brackets at least, nobody in the top ten has the same scores or even particularly bunched up. I dunno what the theoretical max is but it looks like essentially nobody is hitting it.

ZootSax

revskip wrote:

For those of us who prefer just getting to check marks without a clock it is definitely better in terms of placement.

I was never a fan of the old system, nor was I very successful in it (only 3 top 100 finishes in new character releases over a span of ~2 years), but I have to say calling the clock irrelevant in the new PVE is a bald-faced lie. In the first sub of Heart of Darkness, I wasn't able to get to my 4th clear until about 18 hrs into the sub, by which point getting top 100 would have involved a lot of grinding past the check marks (I finished ~120th with 6-7 clears). In the second sub of Heart of Darkness, due to real life commitments, I had to do all my playing in the first 14 hours of the sub. Getting check marks on all but the crit boost nodes (I refuse to face 300+ level enemies for crit boosts) put me only at ~170th in the sub for ranking since I didn't optimize my clears. Success in the new PVE relies heavily on how quickly you do 4 clears and how long you can wait between then and the final 3. It's a different kind of time-dependence than the 8-hr system, but it's still quite dependent on scheduling your time around an optimal time for clears.

With no real shot at Top 100 and more real life commitments tomorrow morning, I'm doing progression-and-out. That seems to be the true beauty of the new system anyway.

revskip

ZootSax wrote:

revskip wrote:

For those of us who prefer just getting to check marks without a clock it is definitely better in terms of placement.

I was never a fan of the old system, nor was I very successful in it (only 3 top 100 finishes in new character releases over a span of ~2 years), but I have to say calling the clock irrelevant in the new PVE is a bald-faced lie. In the first sub of Heart of Darkness, I wasn't able to get to my 4th clear until about 18 hrs into the sub, by which point getting top 100 would have involved a lot of grinding past the check marks (I finished ~120th with 6-7 clears). In the second sub of Heart of Darkness, due to real life commitments, I had to do all my playing in the first 14 hours of the sub. Getting check marks on all but the crit boost nodes (I refuse to face 300+ level enemies for crit boosts) put me only at ~170th in the sub for ranking since I didn't optimize my clears. Success in the new PVE relies heavily on how quickly you do 4 clears and how long you can wait between then and the final 3. It's a different kind of time-dependence than the 8-hr system, but it's still quite dependent on scheduling your time around an optimal time for clears.

With no real shot at Top 100 and more real life commitments tomorrow morning, I'm doing progression-and-out. That seems to be the true beauty of the new system anyway.

Fair enough. That was definitely an oversimplification. The initial 4 clears are pretty much mandatory to place well.

The old system had a long grind at the end of sub and a bunch of timed play sessions spaced out at precisely 8 hour intervals. This system has a long grind at beginning of sub and then far less stringently timed sessions spaced out over the other 22 hours. But you are absolutely right, they both have very heavy clock requirements.

Still for me it is much easier to place in this format than the old and makes it easier for me because I prefer playing in one big sittings and then do the other clears whenever I have a few minutes interspersed through out the day. I'm sure it is different for others who don't like or are able to schedule their playtime that way.

Bowgentle

revskip wrote:

ZootSax wrote:

revskip wrote:

For those of us who prefer just getting to check marks without a clock it is definitely better in terms of placement.

I was never a fan of the old system, nor was I very successful in it (only 3 top 100 finishes in new character releases over a span of ~2 years), but I have to say calling the clock irrelevant in the new PVE is a bald-faced lie. In the first sub of Heart of Darkness, I wasn't able to get to my 4th clear until about 18 hrs into the sub, by which point getting top 100 would have involved a lot of grinding past the check marks (I finished ~120th with 6-7 clears). In the second sub of Heart of Darkness, due to real life commitments, I had to do all my playing in the first 14 hours of the sub. Getting check marks on all but the crit boost nodes (I refuse to face 300+ level enemies for crit boosts) put me only at ~170th in the sub for ranking since I didn't optimize my clears. Success in the new PVE relies heavily on how quickly you do 4 clears and how long you can wait between then and the final 3. It's a different kind of time-dependence than the 8-hr system, but it's still quite dependent on scheduling your time around an optimal time for clears.

With no real shot at Top 100 and more real life commitments tomorrow morning, I'm doing progression-and-out. That seems to be the true beauty of the new system anyway.

Fair enough. That was definitely an oversimplification. The initial 4 clears are pretty much mandatory to place well.

The old system had a long grind at the end of sub and a bunch of timed play sessions spaced out at precisely 8 hour intervals. This system has a long grind at beginning of sub and then far less stringently timed sessions spaced out over the other 22 hours. But you are absolutely right, they both have very heavy clock requirements.

Still for me it is much easier to place in this format than the old and makes it easier for me because I prefer playing in one big sittings and then do the other clears whenever I have a few minutes interspersed through out the day. I'm sure it is different for others who don't like or are able to schedule their playtime that way.

You're lucky to have an easy bracket, then.
In my bracket doing the remaining 3 clears during the 22 hours instead of in the last 2 would definitely not place me in t10.

Ram51

I hate the new system. It was much easier for me to get the Top 50 HP sub rewards under the old system with only sub-optimal clears and minimal grind.

To get Top 50 under the new system I had to do at least 6 clears of each node (start the timer ASAP). Top 10 requires 8 optimal clears (4 nodes start ASAP, 4 nodes as close to the end).

In short, if I'm aiming for just the HP reward, I might as well aim for Top 10 if I'm going to grind.

For those arguing that it's good for progression, I think the max progression has been intentionally set low.

In HOD, got Top 10 for 1st sub with 8 optimal clears, 4 nodes start ASAP, 4 nodes 2 hours 15 minutes before end. Did the 4 clears for 2nd sub in 1 hour 15 minutes. That's 3.5 hours of playing. After seeing that I already have 38k points, I decided to just do the wave nodes once and get the CP in the 3rd sub.

Even though this is a new character PVE, I don't think people are playing hard; Wasp IMO isn't a desirable top-tier character. If something strong like Peggy or a fan favorite like Gambit was the reward though, placement would be even harder (and I would have kept on playing).

Still, I guess I could live with the new system, if D3 will commit to keeping max progression low requiring just 4 clears of each node. With most of the top-tier 4* champed I need the 25CP more to get 5*. I'll miss getting the HP sub rewars though.

The Herald

We seem doomed to being victimised by placement whalebait, so having done-and-out an option for play is a decent option for the 90%

At least we get to be the have-somethings instead of the have-nots!

Pylgrim

Competitive placement PVE player here (though for new character releases exclusively).

As it was never a mystery, the new system sucks for the type of player I represent. Finding 15-20 minutes twice through the day, plus a slice-established as ideal 1+ hour to grind was really not that hard, especially since you could do your small clears anywhere between 1 hour earlier or later (preferably earlier) than "ideal" and still place top 10, unless you were in the most hardcore of the death brackets.

Finding 3 hours in a block to play a mobile game? Doesn't feel great, tries your patience and becomes very boring very quickly. I was lucky that after tanking 5 PVEs I managed to be placed in an intermediate bracket, so I managed to get away playing sub-optimally to preserve my sanity and still get top 10. I likely wouldn't have managed top 20 in a veteran bracket playing like I did.

ZeroKarma

My experience was pretty much the same as Pylgrim. I can't remember the last time I didn't hit T10 if I wanted it, and this event was no different. I finished 6th, but I was grinding past checkmarks in the last sub to hold on.

I, too, prefer smaller play sessions instead of larger. You really need to have a huge chunk of time to devote to this game now, non-stop. And that leads me to my biggest problem with this event. It was incredibly boring. Grinding 3-4 clears and then doing another 4 clears really makes me want to walk away from the game. Include in that, idiocy like trying to beat lvl 419 PX/Cyke/JG with IW as one of your required 3 characters, or maybe you get to bring a level 70 2* Cap with you. Hooray. I played because I felt I had to, and not because I wanted to. The serving is too large.

Side note, PVE events need to be more flexible on the part of the devs. I never used champed/boosted PX before, but I'm sold. Glad I spent the ISO. BUT, I couldn't use my best boosted character in the hardest of the nodes. If PX is boosted, he should be available all week in all events.

Bowgentle

ZeroKarma wrote:

Side note, PVE events need to be more flexible on the part of the devs. I never used champed/boosted PX before, but I'm sold.

Agreed.
I found myself bringing him to every node I could, just for the chance that I'd luck into a match 5.

Give up on winfinite everyone, boosted champed PX is awesome.

DFiPL

Bowgentle wrote:

ZeroKarma wrote:

Side note, PVE events need to be more flexible on the part of the devs. I never used champed/boosted PX before, but I'm sold.

Agreed.
I found myself bringing him to every node I could, just for the chance that I'd luck into a match 5.

Give up on winfinite everyone, boosted champed PX is awesome.

Give me another three blue covers and three yellow covers and I could totally see him becoming a team mainstay for me. I got a bunch of covers for him shortly after he dropped but I've yet to pull any PX covers BUT . My two blue covers came via other means.

broll

I like the new system a lot better. I was killing myself trying to play in the 8 hour windows and it was effecting my sleep and my relationship with my wife. In the new system I'm playing at my time and hitting progression fairly easily and I've given up worrying that much about progression rewards. I usually grind the 4 nodes then just leave the extra points and rewards from the final 3. I think the system would be a lot better if they took the timer off the last 3 as well and I would grind those down too, but in the current setup that just isn't worth it to me. Overall I'm content with the changes.

revskip

Bowgentle wrote:

revskip wrote:

Still for me it is much easier to place in this format than the old and makes it easier for me because I prefer playing in one big sittings and then do the other clears whenever I have a few minutes interspersed through out the day. I'm sure it is different for others who don't like or are able to schedule their playtime that way.

You're lucky to have an easy bracket, then.
In my bracket doing the remaining 3 clears during the 22 hours instead of in the last 2 would definitely not place me in t10.

What were the scores looking like at top ten in your bracket? The last sub I took pretty easy, didn't take the Invisible Woman node past 3 clears because it was tearing me up and only did 2 clears of the Rider wave node and 3 clears of the other wave nodes and still hit 18th place with 76919. Which is much higher than I used to place in new releases.

I know my vet bracket wasn't a pushover the top ten was 90% from top PVE alliances (KA Prime, MPQU, Groot) but I am pretty sure that I could have hit top ten if I had cleared everything since the cutoff was 80893 and I left at least that much off my score just in the last sub by not finishing an essential and a couple of wave nodes.

Bowgentle

revskip wrote:

Bowgentle wrote:

revskip wrote:

Still for me it is much easier to place in this format than the old and makes it easier for me because I prefer playing in one big sittings and then do the other clears whenever I have a few minutes interspersed through out the day. I'm sure it is different for others who don't like or are able to schedule their playtime that way.

You're lucky to have an easy bracket, then.
In my bracket doing the remaining 3 clears during the 22 hours instead of in the last 2 would definitely not place me in t10.

What were the scores looking like at top ten in your bracket? The last sub I took pretty easy, didn't take the Invisible Woman node past 3 clears because it was tearing me up and only did 2 clears of the Rider wave node and 3 clears of the other wave nodes and still hit 18th place with 76919. Which is much higher than I used to place in new releases.

I know my vet bracket wasn't a pushover the top ten was 90% from top PVE alliances (KA Prime, MPQU, Groot) but I am pretty sure that I could have hit top ten if I had cleared everything since the cutoff was 80893 and I left at least that much off my score just in the last sub by not finishing an essential and a couple of wave nodes.

Cutoff for T10 in my bracket was 83K.