Casual friendly Story mode

The Herald

Having played one new Story to satisfaction and now gotten to grips with wave changes, I'm pretty happy

Progression only is kind of in there.

Not all the best rewards, but you can play through a reasonable amount and nab a respectable amount of goodies before stopping.

A lot, LOT more gameplay can then be put in for the old competitive rewards.

How are competitive players finding the new mode?

And I would like to say up front: your attachment to the 8 hour reset was Stockholm Syndrome. Please do not bomb the thread begging to be reunited with your kidnapper

Bowgentle

The Herald wrote:

How are competitive players finding the new mode?

Ask again after I see how far out of T10 (my usual place) I am after the first sub.

revskip

Bowgentle wrote:

The Herald wrote:

How are competitive players finding the new mode?

Ask again after I see how far out of T10 (my usual place) I am after the first sub.

It's gonna be a mixed bag, some of the players who excelled at the old format with it's 8 hour clears and end grind will now give way to new players for whom this system is more forgiving.

For me I was able to make my second T10 ever with the new system playing slightly more than I used to and far less than I did the other time I hit a top 10. Used to go for 6ish clears on a semi-optimal schedule with the old system. Did check marks in this last event with not at all optimal clears (didn't always do the 4 to trigger the countdown, interspersed others throughout the day). As always a fair amount depends on the bracket you end up in but for me so far it is a net positive.

Bowgentle

revskip wrote:

Bowgentle wrote:

The Herald wrote:

How are competitive players finding the new mode?

Ask again after I see how far out of T10 (my usual place) I am after the first sub.

It's gonna be a mixed bag, some of the players who excelled at the old format with it's 8 hour clears and end grind will now give way to new players for whom this system is more forgiving.

For me I was able to make my second T10 ever with the new system playing slightly more than I used to and far less than I did the other time I hit a top 10. Used to go for 6ish clears on a semi-optimal schedule with the old system. Did check marks in this last event with not at all optimal clears (didn't always do the 4 to trigger the countdown, interspersed others throughout the day). As always a fair amount depends on the bracket you end up in but for me so far it is a net positive.

Last event was for Baglady, I made 4th with one arm tied behind my back.

This new release is the first serious benchmark.

Vhailorx

Revskip: placement is much more dependent upon the perceived value of the rewards than on scoring system.

In a game like this. Its best to just accept that there is always someone willing to grind or spend more. Let's see how easy top 10 is when a desirable new character is released.

Herald: IMO the new system is basically treading water for casual players and much much worse for competitive players. The ease of recent progression rewards is unrelated to the scoring system. The max progs have been low (a cynic might think that demi is doing this on purpose to foster good will for the new system). If they stay low that's good for everyone. But there is no particular reason to expect that.

beyonderbub

slice 4; Finished in 8th place overall with almost 94k - first place was sitting at 96.5k and I was looking at all one-point nodes at the end with no chance of gaining; missed a few nodes day one, but cleared all nodes almost optimally, for 8-9 times each on days 2 and 3 to catch up. First top 10 finish in a long time in 3 years of playing. I like this "casual friendly" pve style just fine. I can grind, but I just can't time it optimally for the old style PVE due to work and family obligations, so I'd always get top progression but place in top 50-100 most of the time.

chaos01

I agree. This system is more of a speed clear then an optimal grind clear. I finished top 10 for the first time in over a year and a half, clearing semi optimally.

Even if I finish top 100 in new releases I think this is better for my life.

Vhailorx

Why do you all think placement is gated by the scoring system? Placement is about other players. No one cares about iw covers, so it's easier to top 10 events that reward iw covers.

Let's see how easy it is to finish top 10 in heart of darkness.

MarvelMan

The Herald wrote:

And I would like to say up front: your attachment to the 8 hour reset was Stockholm Syndrome. Please do not bomb the thread begging to be reunited with your kidnapper

I would take the 8hr timers over having to play a 3-4 hour block once a day, with none of the slices good for either East or West coast.

DFiPL

I'm so much happier with the new system than the old it's not even funny.

It's easier for me to devote a couple hours in the evening before bed to playing than to try to hit 3x refreshes + grind for top progression.

I mean, I get that it's sub-optimal for folks who chase placement because of the bloc of time you have to set aside and the rush to finish first so you get tiebreaker advantage.

But as someone who wasn't finishing T10 really ever (My first ever came with the new system heh) and wasn't able to hit top progression because the timers were causing havoc, this is a positive change for me.

I know I'll never have to tap a CP node more than 4x to get the CP, I know that I can reach progression just with evening play, so I don't have to get up early to clear a sub optimally, and it hasn't hampered my ability to go after placement if the rewards are attractive and my rank makes it possible.

Making the event tokens the first prize in wave nodes makes me happy, too.

About the only way I could be happier is if the penultimate progression reward were the essential 4* from the event; folks who don't need it could sell it for the same 1000 ISO that reward currently yields, and folks like me could see progress.

simonsez

The Herald wrote:

How are competitive players finding the new mode?

And I would like to say up front: your attachment to the 8 hour reset was Stockholm Syndrome. Please do not bomb the thread begging to be reunited with your kidnapper

Then why the **** did you ask if you're not gonna like the answer?

Vhailorx

DFiPL:
What havoc did the timers cause?

In the last few pve events, 3-4 clears on each node was enough for max prog. But the prog rewards were consistently lower than previous runs. With prog rewards that low, clearing 4x under the old system without any regard to the timer would also have resulted in max progs.

Don't get me wrong, the old system had plenty of problems. But the things that people are saying they enjoy about the new system (making max prog without caring about timers, unusual top 10 finishes) actually have very little to do with the new system and much more to do with the atypically low prog rewards, and lack of player interest from top pve players in recent events.

Straycat

My main concern was hitting top 100 for the new characters. I wanted to still be able to get the new character releases and that looks doable. My old strategy for getting a new 4 star release (since the 7 total rewards were implemented) was to get 3 or 4 clears of each node asap, then maybe do a couple later and finish all 7 before the next day started. That would usually put me at top 5 for most of the day but end up placing around 60. With the new system I'm basically doing the same strategy with the same placement results. The difficulty increasing and the fixed node rewards are a good change from old system. Overall, I think its fine

DFiPL

Vhailorx wrote:

DFiPL:
What havoc did the timers cause?

In the last few pve events, 3-4 clears on each node was enough for max prog. But the prog rewards were consistently lower than previous runs. With prog rewards that low, clearing 4x under the old system without any regard to the timer would also have resulted in max progs.

Don't get me wrong, the old system had plenty of problems. But the things that people are saying they enjoy about the new system (making max prog without caring about timers, unusual top 10 finishes) actually have very little to do with the new system and much more to do with the atypically low prog rewards, and lack of player interest from top pve players in recent events.

Combination of the slice I chose so I'd be able to play around work (I'm primarily a Steam player, not mobile, though I have a mobile account too) and being a night owl. The 10/11pm slice meant that a refresh was going to be necessary at ~6-7am (night owl) and ~2-3pm (when I'd be at work). That is, to be fair, a 'me' thing in terms of that havoc, but that was a negative in terms of my experience. And that's gone now.

I occasionally got progression under the old system, but 'occasionally' is the key word. I was not able to consistently get it done when the timers were involved unless I was willing to sacrifice sleep to wake up early and do it.

MarvelMan

DFiPL wrote:

I occasionally got progression under the old system, but 'occasionally' is the key word. I was not able to consistently get it done when the timers were involved unless I was willing to sacrifice sleep to wake up early and do it.

Im confused.....it sounds almost as you couldnt hit progression because you were focused on placement, but couldnt get placement due to the timers?

I tended to find that they were somewhat opposed. I hit progression easiest when I didnt care about placement by randomly scattering my 3-4 clears during the day and not worrying about the timers, or had my best placement by sniping a bracket. Either way, one of them wasnt very difficult.

The Herald

simonsez wrote:

The Herald wrote:

How are competitive players finding the new mode?

And I would like to say up front: your attachment to the 8 hour reset was Stockholm Syndrome. Please do not bomb the thread begging to be reunited with your kidnapper

Then why the tinykitty did you ask if you're not gonna like the answer?

Sorry, the conversational hand grenade was born of earlier boredom. That it's something people got conditioned to, and isn't actually a good system, is just my opinion. Don't even know if it's a statistically significant opinion!

Having the Wasp dangling in front of everyone will show up the weaknesses of the new system better.

Most interesting thing I've seen mentioned yet is that they should drop back down to 5 clears like the original well received Rocket and Groot test. Casual or competitive, a little less grinding will go a long way.

Vhailorx

DFiPL:

I am confused because you seem to be saying that you played for placement and therefore had trouble getting progression. But unless you were sniping late brackets, it was VERY hard under the old system to play the full event, place in the top 50 and not get the max prog reward. So I don't see where the new system is an improvement for you.

DFiPL

MarvelMan wrote:

DFiPL wrote:

I occasionally got progression under the old system, but 'occasionally' is the key word. I was not able to consistently get it done when the timers were involved unless I was willing to sacrifice sleep to wake up early and do it.

Im confused.....it sounds almost as you couldnt hit progression because you were focused on placement, but couldnt get placement due to the timers?

I tended to find that they were somewhat opposed. I hit progression easiest when I didnt care about placement by randomly scattering my 3-4 clears during the day and not worrying about the timers, or had my best placement by sniping a bracket. Either way, one of them wasnt very difficult.

No. I never worried about placement, although I was usually a top 100 finisher. (EDIT: Stupid keyboard. 100, not 10)

The thing is with the timers, a double- or triple-tap of a node was going to instantly be worth fewer points because of the timer, and would take longer to refresh. The CW was "three clears and a grind will get you max progression," but if you're tapping them right away, the grind is going to be worthless. So even not focusing on placement, getting the best score I could to give myself the best chance of progression was going to mean adhering to the timers.

Often, that didn't work, and what I ended up doing was the first clear, sleep, work, get home in the mid-afternoon (if I was lucky), do a second clear, wait a couple hours, and then start grinding like mad.

The time requirements for sleep, work, and playing around the timers for maximum points meant that most events I hit the 1k ISO reward but only occasionally were there enough points for me to get max progression.

The rockett

As a person that does not play pve hard except for new releases, I hate it. Absolutely 100% do not like it. The past new 4* releases, here is where is finish. 1st, 1st, 6th, 6th, 2nd, 1st. When there is a new release, I am 100% in. This format does not work at all. Before this was the timing.

Old System:
Sub 1st clear-20-25 mins
8hr Mark-15-18 mins
16hr Mark-15-18 mins
Grind-1.25 hrs.
Next sub-20-25 min

New System: (today)
Sub 1st clear-1 hr
Grind-2hrs (can cut 12 mins off maybe)

Now if you just care about progression then this is great. If you care about placement, well this sucks. Just my 2 cents.

The Rockett
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DFiPL

Vhailorx wrote:

DFiPL:

I am confused because you seem to be saying that you played for placement and therefore had trouble getting progression. But unless you were sniping late brackets, it was VERY hard under the old system to play the full event, place in the top 50 and not get the max prog reward. So I don't see where the new system is an improvement for you.

Nope. I never played with placement as a goal. I'd still usually hit top 100 or so (top 50 when the rewards "sucked," but never higher than that) but it just wasn't ever a priority. If I was 120'ish, I didn't push for top 100. My focus was on progression.

And, yes, you're correct - when things lined up such that I did place highly, I usually hit progression under those circumstances. But the key word, as previously noted, was "occasionally."

I didn't hit max progression regularly, and that was despite the absurd levels of playtime I have in this game. I did my best to play optimally around my sleep/work needs, but retail ain't consistent. Shifts change from day to day, both in terms of which shifts you work and how long. Etc.

And given that - especially since I play mainly on Steam - max progression wasn't something I could hit reliably.

MarvelMan

DFiPL wrote:

I never worried about placement, although I was usually a top 10 finisher.

I think this could be the disconnect. If you played from the first sub, even suboptimally, you hit max progression if you did 3-4 randomly spaced clears. If you were T10 and didnt hit max progression, you were bracket sniping, which is a given that you wont hit max progression. At least that is the only scenario where I can see it happening.