PvE Ranking under new system

WalrusBrigade

I have made most of my progress in this game on the back of PvE. It is how I got the CP needed to buy 4* covers and max my only two max 4*s. So I'm really in PvE for the progression. That being said the new system is nice because I play at my own pace and don't need to try to find time to fit in 30 minutes of play even 8 hours. So that is great.

But under this new system (and in the same slice that I normally play) I would be hard pressed to get in the top 100 of the ranking. This was a pretty easy feat in the past, with basically the same amount of clears. Right now I am at 248 in Family Reunion having cleared all but the 2* essential node 4 times. I've got a bit more to go in order to stay on track for progression, but I would have to work to get t100.

Is this a thing that everyone is experiencing? I'm happy about the ease on my schedule, but am realizing that I will no longer be getting a 3* cover or two out of my PvE experience. That is another part of my progress in the game (I have plenty of champed 3*) so I'm sad to be missing out on that.

DTStump

The 8h timers were there to reward timing over grinding. By removing that, there is no way to differentiate between someone who does 2 full clears spaced by 10 hours and someone who does 2 consecutive clears in one sitting. Therefore, one has to grind more to get ahead of the pack.

In the past, mechanisms such as optimal timing and rubberbanding made some difference for placement rewards. With these factors gone, the only way to get ahead is to grind more than the others. Besides, now that people feel that they can "play at their own pace" whereas they couldn't in the past (which is completely false, but this has been explained over and over, no point in doing it again), you have more people motivated to grind.

This is not even the worst scenario - wait until there are new releases. Wasp, Black Bolt and Spider-Woman coming! Good luck with getting top 100.

EDIT: phrasing

OneLastGambit

Hmmmm.....

Based on experience and recent data collected from the community regarding this topic recently I'd say that more than playing style your slice will dictate your ability to rank.

I play slice 1 mainly and with just 6 clears per sub made t10 in the most recent event. I've done this fairly consistently in slice 1. My brethren from other slices tell me my score woudnt have made t50 in slice 3 or 4.

carrion_pigeons

You can divide players into two categories: those who couldn't take advantage of the timing requirements of the old PvE style, for whatever reason, and those who could.

The old system pretty arbitrarily favored one group over the other and they got to feeling really entitled about it, like somehow it was better design because it kept them from competing for placement with as many people as were actually interested in placement. Since that's obviously baloney, that perspective should hopefully be avoided.

The better argument is that current placement rewards are no longer reasonable for the amount of time it take to get them, and ought to be improved (or rolled into progression).

GrumpySmurf1002

OneLastGambit wrote:

Hmmmm.....

Based on experience and recent data collected from the community regarding this topic recently I'd say that more than playing style your slice will dictate your ability to rank.

I play slice 1 mainly and with just 6 clears per sub made t10 in the most recent event. I've done this fairly consistently in slice 1. My brethren from other slices tell me my score woudnt have made t50 in slice 3 or 4.

6 clears is above average effort, so yes combined with a good slice you should have no problem ranking. This again is not something very different between the two systems.

The problem with the new system (ok, a problem, not THE problem) is that the idea that "you can play whenever' is likely leading to many more people doing the 4 clears than in the past. Rising tide and what not, there's considerably more play required to place higher.

Yes, you can mitigate that with a better slice than the super active 3/4 slices, but you still need considerably more effort for placement now than previously.

But hey, at least that effort comes when you want, except if someone else does it with better timing. Wait that sounds familiar....

GrumpySmurf1002

carrion pigeons wrote:

You can divide players into two categories: those who couldn't take advantage of the timing requirements of the old PvE style, for whatever reason, and those who could.

You can still divide into two categories: those who can't take advantage of the timing requirements of the new PvE style, for whatever reason, and those who can.

WalrusBrigade

Thanks for all of the advice/comments. I have maintained the same slice that I did under the old system, so I think that part of the change is controlled. The idea that the average score has moved up because more people are getting 4 clears due to less timer constraint makes a lot of sense. I don't think I have it in me to fight for 6 clears, but that is my issue and not with the system. I think I just have to be ready to not get t100 without putting in significantly more work and just be happy with my progression rewards. That is fine with me as long as I know that is the case.

Thanks again for all the help.

dsds

With changes, there will always be losers and winners. It's just the name of the game. I think overall, more people benefited. Yes you may place lower if you played on a schedule before. But that's ok, because I placed lower (if I did the same clear, but I actually placed higher because I was able to get more clears in) and I accept that. The reason I accept it is because the pve before was broken and it excluded a lot of people who couldn't play on a schedule. People who played on a schedule had an unfair advantage and that was not right. It's also not healthy to sleep less because that was the only way I could adhere to the 8h schedule.

The reason you are placing lower is because the pve now includes a lot more people and gives them the opportunity to rank high. Before they could not do that due to their schedules. It is a good thing because it means more players are playing longer. Yes it sucks for the old 8hr schedule players, but they are a small minority not the majority.

In conclusion, due to the change, more people are encouraged to play longer and to make progression. And this is why your rank is lower. Now you are competing with players on a level playing field and this is your true rank!

I for one prefer this new format. I may not get as many rewards, but in return I get more sleep, and I feel more mentally healthier. I hated the schedule. I would skip events if life was in the way, now I don't need to do this.

New releases is going to be frustrating. I hope they do something different for new releases.

DTStump

I used to not play on a schedule and place top 50 every day. With a little less than 4 clears a day on average. 4 clears a day now, in the same slice, will barely put me in the top 200.

More people are playing more hours in this system. I don't see what's good about this. Except for MPQ, if their plan is to have a lot of people playing 3 to 4 hours a day, of course.

Figure15

I think there's still rubber banding. I got to 10300 first then someone sneaked past with 10303.

Pessi

This new system seem more about consistency than timing. In R&G i was top 200 for the first 2 subs, then in the final node pushed up to top 50 - once people get the CP, the competition slows dramatically.

I would make sure you join any PvE late, then do your 4 clears. I was lucky with a Thick as Thieves bracket that started at 5pm, but joined at 8pm with 300 players. So I still got 4 clears of all before I went to bed, and took an hour at 4pm to clear the easy nodes, then the goon only nodes (5 purple jean is a beast - shame mine is 5/1/1!), then the goon only essential nodes and a few swings at cp nodes. Finished top 50 easily.

I honestly think that top 100 should be easy if you do 4 clears at your own pace, then grind easy nodes 3 times each as late as possible. Skip anything tough.

thanos8587

progression for the time being is totally irrelevant to placement. under the old system, progression alone would be top 150ish for me. under this system, progression for r&g was 35k, i finished at 44k mostly grinding iso after hitting progression and my placement was 256. 25% over progression not top 100 or top 200, not even close.

no complaints, i could care less about placements now, im in it for the cp. my only fear are these low progressions are akin to an introductory offer. i keep looking down waiting for the rug to get pulled out from under me. anxiously awaiting the first new character event to see where the bar is set.

revskip

Pessi wrote:

This new system seem more about consistency than timing. In R&G i was top 200 for the first 2 subs, then in the final node pushed up to top 50 - once people get the CP, the competition slows dramatically.

I would make sure you join any PvE late, then do your 4 clears. I was lucky with a Thick as Thieves bracket that started at 5pm, but joined at 8pm with 300 players. So I still got 4 clears of all before I went to bed, and took an hour at 4pm to clear the easy nodes, then the goon only nodes (5 purple jean is a beast - shame mine is 5/1/1!), then the goon only essential nodes and a few swings at cp nodes. Finished top 50 easily.

I honestly think that top 100 should be easy if you do 4 clears at your own pace, then grind easy nodes 3 times each as late as possible. Skip anything tough.

Yeah, bracket sniping is still kinda important, just for slightly different reasons. You still want to avoid the first brackets to fill since those are still packed with the most competitive people who are trying for the biggest possible score. If you can manage a relatively fresh bracket now and clear everything 4x right away you have a big leg up on a less competitive group and should easily make top 50 and if you want to grind top 10.

I got a somewhat fresh bracket in the last two events and have easily made top 20 in the first and am currently 8th in Thick as Thieves. People are playing slightly more than before according to scores though which means better participation.

mikelnoe

I swear I read from a Red that new character events would be old style.

mikelnoe

Edit: wow triple post sry pls delete. Phone has gone full ****.

mikelnoe

Edit: Sry for double post feel free to delete this one.

Phumade

mikelnoe wrote:

I swear I read from a Red that new character events would be old style.

"Starting with the Meet Rocket & Groot Story Event on July 17th, every non-boss Story event will now use the new mission difficulty. Each previous run of the new mission difficulty has allowed us to work towards our underlying goal of making Story events fun and challenging no matter if you just started the game or are a seasoned veteran"
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=47762

emphasis on the "non-boss". Basically, he's fully implying that new chars intros are under the new rule.

With that said, their marketing speak could be clarified a bit.

for example: Does this imply that Gauntlet is a non-story event? What exactly will happen during simulator? I never really thought that was a story event either, but it looks like they could easily implement the new rules there.

those concerns are pretty minor

ZootSax

WalrusBrigade wrote:

Thanks for all of the advice/comments. I have maintained the same slice that I did under the old system, so I think that part of the change is controlled. The idea that the average score has moved up because more people are getting 4 clears due to less timer constraint makes a lot of sense. I don't think I have it in me to fight for 6 clears, but that is my issue and not with the system. I think I just have to be ready to not get t100 without putting in significantly more work and just be happy with my progression rewards. That is fine with me as long as I know that is the case.

Thanks again for all the help.

Yeah, in my slice people seem to grind the new PVE pretty insanely relative to the old system. For the first sub of Thick as Thieves, I got every non-crit boost award, but that wasn't particularly close to Top 100, while in the old system 6-7 clears at random, non-optimal intervals in the day would have still probably been Top 50 for a non-new character release. Of course, I didn't do 6-7 clears regularly in the old system, so in the new system I end up doing more work for the same placement, but 100% less critical boosts...so, basically a wash

I guess I could switch slices, but I'm kind of assuming that others will do this too, so I'm waiting a month or so to see how things settle out...

carrion_pigeons

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

carrion pigeons wrote:

You can divide players into two categories: those who couldn't take advantage of the timing requirements of the old PvE style, for whatever reason, and those who could.

You can still divide into two categories: those who can't take advantage of the timing requirements of the new PvE style, for whatever reason, and those who can.

Certainly true, but it's pretty trivial to look at scoreboards and see that the number of people interested in placing who are now able to compete for it is much larger, which is a good thing, and not a bad thing.

Sluggo

I keep flirting with the idea of starting a "Bracketology" PVE thread to ask people what slices they play in and how competitive they find them, as I've always been curious how the different PVE time shards compare.

But for now, I'll ask the people here who feel they're struggling with placement -- what slice are you in, and when do you typically join an event? Right at the start, or do you wait for later brackets?

ZootSax

Sluggo wrote:

But for now, I'll ask the people here who feel they're struggling with placement -- what slice are you in, and when do you typically join an event? Right at the start, or do you wait for later brackets?

That would be interesting, so I'll get it started.

In both the old and new PVE, I play slice 4 and join right at the start. I rarely play for long blocks of time, nor could I play on fixed, 8 hr cycles, so in both formats I played sub-optimally.

In the old system, for non-new character events, I'd expect 4 clears to put me in striking distance of top 100 and generally top 200 otherwise. In the new format, 4 clears is typically outside the top 300 and sometimes outside the top 400. For the first few of the new events I've played more than usual, but 6 clears has never gotten me in the top 100 of any sub and 7 has only got me in the top 100 of one sub. For the 48 hour sub last event, 7 clears was outside the top 300.

I'm sure others have different experiences, but this has been mine since the tests started. Even though my placement has suffered, the new format is generally still better for me, as 4 clears gets all the best prizes and progression. All this talk of "play on your own schedule" is a load of ****, though, as more people seem to grind each event to hell and back far more than the old system. I don't understand why, but as long as their efforts don't cause the progression target to rise, I don't care...