Bag-Man has been dethroned

dr tinykittylove
dr tinykittylove Posts: 1,459 Chairperson of the Boards
edited July 2016 in MPQ General Discussion
Bag-Man is no longer the Least Usable Charactor in MPQdom.

Just had the enemy use a symbiote snare on me and went to take a look at my little DDQ darling.

What the actual tinykitty was wrong with Venom as he was? To begin with he was never going to be able to reach the conditions for enhanced devour without shenanigans - 8 web tiles is not easy to get out or keep on the board unless you're using Miles.

And now his Snare... at 5 covers he stuns the enemy for 1 turn for 6 ap... compared to spider-man stun which can be enhanced with web tiles.

At 4 covers he needs 12 ap to stun the enemy for 1 turn. At 3 covers he needa 18 ap. At 2 covers he needs 24 ap. At 1 cover he needs 30 ap.

I am completely flabbergasted. I don't even know what to say to whoever decided to make this change. Are you tinykitty or just extremely tinykitty or what?
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Comments

  • nic13
    nic13 Posts: 87
    Go away kitty! I like not having venom snare me every other turn!
  • dr tinykittylove
    dr tinykittylove Posts: 1,459 Chairperson of the Boards
    nic13 wrote:
    Go away kitty! I like not having venom snare me every other turn!

    Weakling! Getting hit by venom snare and devour builds character! Or kills your character... maybe...I'm confused!

    Also, it is another nerf to poor Surfer! What will he be good for now that no one is afraid of Venom anymore?
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    It is a pretty baffling nerf.
  • FierceKiwi
    FierceKiwi Posts: 505 Critical Contributor
    It makes perfect sense...Venom was a nightmare whenever he had Purple feeders. In typical d3/Demi fashion they've treated the symptom of Venom being a nightmare in those situations by making Venom suck everywhere instead of treating the disease of AP feeders. Easy fixes are rarely also good fixes.
  • StevO-J
    StevO-J Posts: 751 Critical Contributor
    FierceKiwi wrote:
    It makes perfect sense...Venom was a nightmare whenever he had Purple feeders. (...)

    While this is certainly true they could have fixed this better by, I don't know... STOP ENEMIES GETTING FED FREE AP maybe...!? icon_e_surprised.gif

    This would fix so much more (Wolvie/Gorgon + red, DocOc + green, Venom and Carnage + green and red and in the current PVE Mystique + purple just to name a few)

    *cough*

    Sorry for the capitals and whatnot, but it had to be said... Carry on everyone.
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    FierceKiwi wrote:
    It makes perfect sense...Venom was a nightmare whenever he had Purple feeders. In typical d3/Demi fashion they've treated the symptom of Venom being a nightmare in those situations by making Venom suck everywhere instead of treating the disease of AP feeders. Easy fixes are rarely also good fixes.
    In even more typical Demi fashion, it took them 2 1/2 years to acknowledge that maybe Venom was OP in PVE scaled to level 325, coupled with Juggs and feeders.

    Maybe in another two years Juggs will be nerfed.
  • The Viceroy Returns
    The Viceroy Returns Posts: 493 Mover and Shaker
    I just had the enemy use this Team Up on me.
    It made one useless Web Tile.
    Haven't actually fought one yet, as this PVE doesn't use him for a change, but 1 Star Venom is now possibly even easier than Yelena as an opponent now.
    That's really remarkable to even be able to say.

    It's useless as a Team Up now, at any level. Maybe that was why? They didn't like players able to have a single target 4 AP stun, or a Team wide 7 AP stun? As an aside, WAY back when Team Ups were first introduced, I always felt that it would negatively affect game balance, as players could use powers that weren't intended to be used together. In the grand scheme of things this is somewhat minor, as it's a 1 Star character, but we've seen traces of it affect other high;y used characters.
    I bet part of The Hood's Yellow redesign/nerf was partly due to it's crazy usefulness as a Team Up. To borrow a line from Wadesworth/Mr. Body = "Charged Tiles were just a red herring."

    If they gave Venom a 3rd Green power to generate more Web tiles to somehow offset this it maybe wouldn't be so bad. Based on his Tile Match Damage values this is the color he's missing, and it's actually his strongest Til Match Damage color even!
    Maybe a Scarlet Witch-esque passive that places a Green Countdown Tile where when it goes off, it places X number of Web Tiles (increased number per power level), or something like that. This would represent the oozing goop from his tendrils or what have you. It would also make the secondary effect of his Black possibly happen much more often. I've been playing this game since December of 2014, and I have NEVER seen this secondary effect trigger (same for Bullseye's Black as well, doing the crazy damage if there are 4 Crit Tiles out). I mean, they already nerfed it so the secondary effect isn't insty-kill anymore, so I donno what all else they could do to it. Guess I should be careful what I say here though.

    I'd like to think this is a precursor to a Venom rework/update, but it's a 1 Star character, so probably not.
    I agree that it's perplexing that this power got such a heavy nerf seemingly out of the blue.
  • thanos8587
    thanos8587 Posts: 653
    first they nerf his black taking away his ohko and then they nerf his stun. for a one star!

    WITHOUT A CHANGE TO ANY OTHER CHARACTER!!

    cmon d3, you cant see any other broken or useless characters to change, but you keep screwing with poor venom. whats next?
  • DevilMayGrind
    DevilMayGrind Posts: 55
    People, people - it's a 1 star.png character. With all other troubles and problems we have, is this really a concern worthy to be noted? I mean truly - how often do you even use him? What's next? We going to petition to bring Yelena back? I'd rather see feeders balanced (or any other "fun feature") than venom getting his annoying team stun back.
  • Dragon_Nexus
    Dragon_Nexus Posts: 3,701 Chairperson of the Boards
    The 1* enemies exist purely as obsticals to be overcome in PvE. The vast majority of their play time is by the AI in nodes where they're levelled way beyond what a player could reach.

    As such his existence is for the most part as something to fight against rather than something to use and because of that he needs to be fun to fight against. And if he can stunlock you to death, that's not particularly fun...
  • mpqr7
    mpqr7 Posts: 2,642 Chairperson of the Boards
    I always found the venom stun to be highly annoying, so I'm glad that it's gone. Now, we just need to nerf juggs' green and a few other annoying dark avengers powers that cause un-ending turns in pve icon_e_biggrin.gif
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx wrote:
    It is a pretty baffling nerf.
    Not at all... I'm sure this was meant as a quality-of-life improvement for the noobs. Cause you know, the only players who matter are noobs and <name deleted so a mod doesn't yell at me>
  • Jarvind
    Jarvind Posts: 1,684 Chairperson of the Boards
    Are...are people using 1* Venom for something?
  • thanos8587
    thanos8587 Posts: 653
    Jarvind wrote:
    Are...are people using 1* Venom for something?

    1* node in ddq. i never had the heart to sell him. i used him in balance of power as a stun bot some time ago.

    but thats not really the point. the point is theyve changed one star venom twice and i never recall anyone complaining.

    how about changing cho, iw, elektra or some other character thats deeply flawed instead of wasting time worrying about 1* venom.
  • BlackSheep101
    BlackSheep101 Posts: 2,025 Chairperson of the Boards
    thanos8587 wrote:
    but thats not really the point. the point is theyve changed one star venom twice and i never recall anyone complaining.
    People complain all the time about being stunlocked in Juggs/Venom nodes.
  • Calnexin
    Calnexin Posts: 1,078 Chairperson of the Boards
    StevO-J wrote:
    STOP ENEMIES GETTING FED FREE AP maybe...!? icon_e_surprised.gif

    I really hate those nodes, but I also think it adds to the "puzzle" element of the game. There are tools to mitigate some of the more onerous mechanics. Your own personal roster and scaling can throw that totally out of whack, but feeders boosting characters seems more like a design mechanic than a cheat, to me. I don't see that as lazy programming, I see it as clever gaming (against the players).

    If we're all exposed to it we all suffer the same difficulty. The people willing or able to craft a team that can take those nodes down deserve to rank higher than me.
  • firethorne
    firethorne Posts: 1,505 Chairperson of the Boards
    If the enemy AI gets to scale their Vernon to 300, while mine gets capped at 40, I'm fine making Venom as weak and useless as possible.
  • Marc_Spector
    Marc_Spector Posts: 628 Critical Contributor
    dr tinykittylove wrote:
    Weakling! Getting hit by venom snare and devour builds character! Or kills your character... maybe...I'm confused!

    I don't think I can ever hear the phrase "builds character" without thinking of Calvin's dad icon_e_biggrin.gif
  • Jarvind
    Jarvind Posts: 1,684 Chairperson of the Boards
    Marc Spector wrote:
    dr tinykittylove wrote:
    Weakling! Getting hit by venom snare and devour builds character! Or kills your character... maybe...I'm confused!

    I don't think I can ever hear the phrase "builds character" without thinking of Calvin's dad icon_e_biggrin.gif

    a1393860decf013171ac005056a9545d
  • MrBowers
    MrBowers Posts: 129 Tile Toppler
    Maybe this will lead to them using 4 star venom more instead of 1 star version in pve

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