Required characters and competing in PvE

aesthetocyst

We_are_Venom wrote:

... I am at roughly 72% efficiency of 1st place at 189th place, your scenario of 100 people being 85% isn't really all that hard to imagine....

100% efficiency is not possible (unless you can clear instantaneously!). Even if playing damn near perfectly, you can't do better than about 92% (based on past results). So, if your leader is THAT good, and you're at 72% of his score, then you're around 63% of possible points. If the leader is less than 92% of points possible at this point ... and they probably are ... all the better! Start playing as optimally as possible.

We_are_Venom wrote:

If they wanted to sell more HP, which is the claim, you'd want MORE people being competitive for the new cover, not less.

Wow .. you aren't getting how essentials drive slots sales at all.

The fix is in on release events, sir. The same number of covers are awarded ... regardless of the level of competition!

The top 100 people in each get those covers, even if they all only played 1 match. The top 100 alliances, ditto. Competition doesn't matter to the house for those purposes.

Players make the competition happen. And to be most prepared in advance, players acquire the necessary character, and that requires slots. Artificial scarcity creates artificial demand.

During the event, people burn HP on heals, etc. to race for one of those limited spots.

If they let people think they don't need to slot those essentials, then people won't, especially if, in your scheme, they knew they could skate by and avoiding the scoring handicap a missing essential becomes.

I get that you're saying some people may choose to not compete at all if they are missing an essential. That's silly because they can still win. Further, they may blow $$$ on tokens trying to get said essential. Further they may be competitive in the preceding event, chasing an essential, so they can be more competitive in the next event.

Giving people an "out" relieves pressure. That is, unfortunately, not in the dev's interest (apparently).

TL; DR: It's the forest (all the events!), not the trees (single events) that drive HP burn. An endless chain of events, all of them with essentials, forming a lovely hamster wheel

We_are_Venom

aesthetocyst wrote:

We_are_Venom wrote:

... I am at roughly 72% efficiency of 1st place at 189th place, your scenario of 100 people being 85% isn't really all that hard to imagine....

100% efficiency is not possible (unless you can clear instantaneously!). Even if playing damn near perfectly, you can't do better than about 92% (based on past results). So, if your leader is THAT good, and you're at 72% of his score, then you're around 63% of possible points. If the leader is less than 92% of points possible at this point ... and they probably are ... all the better! Start playing as optimally as possible.

We_are_Venom wrote:

If they wanted to sell more HP, which is the claim, you'd want MORE people being competitive for the new cover, not less.

Wow .. you aren't getting how essentials drive slots sales at all.

The fix is in on release events, sir. The same number of covers are awarded ... regardless of the level of competition!

The top 100 people in each get those covers, even if they all only played 1 match. The top 100 alliances, ditto. Competition doesn't matter to the house for those purposes.

Players make the competition happen. And to be most prepared in advance, players acquire the necessary character, and that requires slots. Artificial scarcity creates artificial demand.

During the event, people burn HP on heals, etc. to race for one of those limited spots.

If they let people think they don't need to slot those essentials, then people won't, especially if, in your scheme, they knew they could skate by and avoiding the scoring handicap a missing essential becomes.

I get that you're saying some people may choose to not compete at all if they are missing an essential. That's silly because they can still win. Further, they may blow $$$ on tokens trying to get said essential. Further they may be competitive in the preceding event, chasing an essential, so they can be more competitive in the next event.

Giving people an "out" relieves pressure. That is, unfortunately, not in the dev's interest (apparently).

TL; DR: It's the forest (all the events!), not the trees (single events) that drive HP burn. An endless chain of events, all of them with essentials, forming a lovely hamster wheel

When you limit the ability for players to achieve those top spots, they don't shoot for them. Someone missing an essential knows they are not getting top placement, and they will adjust themselves, and how they distribute HP and funds, accordingly.
Those same people that are out of the running, put them in a bracket that they know they have a chance of top placement, they will distribute HP and real money accordingly, but by spending it.
Let's take this event.... Say I don't get a CC cover (I will, I'm 100% certain of this thanks to my alliance), not only wilI I theoretically not be competitive for top tier for this event, I'll be out of the mix for the next event as well as I don't have the next one either. Am I likely to spend money on slots and heals knowing my chances of success are near 0%, or am I more likely to keep my funds, be it in game or real life, and wait until I am?
By making it so I'm competitive for top tier every single event, the chances i spend money are greater than when I'm only competitive 75%.
Now, would this allow someone with a max roster of 15 characters compete without needing any required characters? Sure, that would happen, absolutely. But what are they going to do with a new character they don't have space for? Cut a champ? Buy a space? Could be former, could be latter, but if they are the former, chances are they are unlikely to spend money under any system implemented. There are plenty of people playing free under this system, I doubt very much it would change much in either direction. Matter of opinion, not fact, but that's how I see it.

morph3us

We_are_Venom wrote:

Let's take this event.... Say I don't get a CC cover (I will, I'm 100% certain of this thanks to my alliance), not only wilI I theoretically not be competitive for top tier for this event, I'll be out of the mix for the next event as well as I don't have the next one either. Am I likely to spend money on slots and heals knowing my chances of success are near 0%, or am I more likely to keep my funds, be it in game or real life, and wait until I am?

That's the devilry behind the vault for the post-new character release event. Buy a 40 pack in the following PvE event, 50% chance of getting that 4* cover you missed in the release event. Buy 2x 40 packs, 100% chance of getting that cover. For the majority of people on this forum, that's more than they'd probably spend, but you'd be surprised at the number of people who actually do that.

Making the essential character mandatory makes money for Demi via roster slots, and 40 pack buys. Locking that essential slot would make them less money, I think.

stochasticism

morph3us wrote:

We_are_Venom wrote:

Let's take this event.... Say I don't get a CC cover (I will, I'm 100% certain of this thanks to my alliance), not only wilI I theoretically not be competitive for top tier for this event, I'll be out of the mix for the next event as well as I don't have the next one either. Am I likely to spend money on slots and heals knowing my chances of success are near 0%, or am I more likely to keep my funds, be it in game or real life, and wait until I am?

That's the devilry behind the vault for the post-new character release event. Buy a 40 pack in the following PvE event, 50% chance of getting that 4* cover you missed in the release event. Buy 2x 40 packs, 100% chance of getting that cover. For the majority of people on this forum, that's more than they'd probably spend, but you'd be surprised at the number of people who actually do that.

Making the essential character mandatory makes money for Demi via roster slots, and 40 pack buys. Locking that essential slot would make them less money, I think.

There's actually even more devilry than that. You actually can't buy two 40s for the same 80 token vault in an event. So you are relegated to buying 10s or resetting. I think it's because you are guaranteed the legendary if you buy a 40 and you can only get one legendary from an 80 token vault.

We_are_Venom

morph3us wrote:

We_are_Venom wrote:

Let's take this event.... Say I don't get a CC cover (I will, I'm 100% certain of this thanks to my alliance), not only wilI I theoretically not be competitive for top tier for this event, I'll be out of the mix for the next event as well as I don't have the next one either. Am I likely to spend money on slots and heals knowing my chances of success are near 0%, or am I more likely to keep my funds, be it in game or real life, and wait until I am?

That's the devilry behind the vault for the post-new character release event. Buy a 40 pack in the following PvE event, 50% chance of getting that 4* cover you missed in the release event. Buy 2x 40 packs, 100% chance of getting that cover. For the majority of people on this forum, that's more than they'd probably spend, but you'd be surprised at the number of people who actually do that.

Making the essential character mandatory makes money for Demi via roster slots, and 40 pack buys. Locking that essential slot would make them less money, I think.

If people are buying HP in those amounts for the vaults after release, then it for sure makes no sense what I've posted.
I had not even thought about it, buying large amounts of HP for the 50% chance of getting the new release character through the next vault. The idea seems absurd someone would spend that kind of money, but if so, God bless them.

jimstarooney

Heres a little tip 4 u...starting from this event get max progression.a t100 alliance then will almost certainly take u in and u will get yr cover.then if every event u place u get t10 u will get a 4 star cover and never need miss out again!
Welcome to the hamster wheel:)

Eddiemon

We_are_Venom wrote:

The logic on display seems rather out of whack. I won't have to buy a new roster after this event because there is no chance of a top 100 finish without the required character. That's the opposite of what you're claiming is what they are looking for. In fact, by bracketing like rosters, you are INCREASING the amount players likely to buy HP while maintaining the integrity of the competition.

The problem is your logic doesn't work.

If 'essential' characters aren't actually essential, then you aren't under any real pressure to roster that character unless it is an upgrade. So you can win it and just sell it for ISO unless it is better than your top 5 characters of that tier. Even worse you tell players right then to sell of their Cho's and IWs because the roster slots can be better used with no appreciable penalty.

As an added bonus, the people most likely to pony up for roster slots are the collectors who likely already have the essential. So by grouping them in one bracket you limit your guaranteed purchaser pool. Regardless of how you bracket the thing the same number of people will get the cover, you're only choosing poorly which people to give the cover to.

And the fact that you are frustrated that you are at a disadvantage is exactly the sales pitch to get you to pony up and get them missing slots and characters.

Alsmir

I have 1 essential character for current event (Hawkeye ftw!). During first day I barely cleared anything. After that I tried a bit harder.
Right now I'm around rank 100 in my bracket. I guess my competition sucks even more than I do.

slidecage

if they gave everyone loaners or put people in brackets that did not have the needed people then there is no reason to grind in PVE

We_are_Venom

Edited double post

We_are_Venom

Eddiemon wrote:

We_are_Venom wrote:

The logic on display seems rather out of whack. I won't have to buy a new roster after this event because there is no chance of a top 100 finish without the required character. That's the opposite of what you're claiming is what they are looking for. In fact, by bracketing like rosters, you are INCREASING the amount players likely to buy HP while maintaining the integrity of the competition.

The problem is your logic doesn't work.

If 'essential' characters aren't actually essential, then you aren't under any real pressure to roster that character unless it is an upgrade. So you can win it and just sell it for ISO unless it is better than your top 5 characters of that tier. Even worse you tell players right then to sell of their Cho's and IWs because the roster slots can be better used with no appreciable penalty.

As an added bonus, the people most likely to pony up for roster slots are the collectors who likely already have the essential. So by grouping them in one bracket you limit your guaranteed purchaser pool. Regardless of how you bracket the thing the same number of people will get the cover, you're only choosing poorly which people to give the cover to.

And the fact that you are frustrated that you are at a disadvantage is exactly the sales pitch to get you to pony up and get them missing slots and characters.

First, I'm not frustrated.
Second, people sell iw and cho anyway. You act like the plan they have going now is a bullet proof business model that forces everyone to spend money and that is so far from accurate. I know many people that haven't put a dime into this game.

How is it limiting the purchase any more then it already is now? That makes no sense. That basically assumes that everyone on that bracket has every character available, which is silly.

People that play for free are ALREADY doing what you see as a flaw in what I've posted. Take the 2* essential, it gets a floater on many rosters. Did the ingenious plan to force them to roster it cause them to buy a spot? Sure, at some point, but now they keep it rotating so they don't have to roster them all.
I would love to see a test with what I've posted and look over the results. I don't think it would be nearly as crazy as you seem to.
A rise in player participation and more competition in brackets is to their benefit. As someone pointed out earlier, it increases competition for those with leveled rosters and they'd rather roll over those without essentials than compete.

If what you are saying is really all that important in the process, why is sniping brackets a thing? It clearly eliminates needing essentials if you hit the sweet spot, and totally rebukes your point of importance.

We_are_Venom

Alsmir wrote:

I have 1 essential character for current event (Hawkeye ftw!). During first day I barely cleared anything. After that I tried a bit harder.
Right now I'm around rank 100 in my bracket. I guess my competition sucks even more than I do.

Pretty certain you're in a newb bracket. My alt account, I I've placed top 100 clearing 1 sub once an entire event. Recently too, as I got 3 hulk covers, which was I think just before sim.

PeterGibbons316

We_are_Venom wrote:

I really don't care at all.

We_are_Venom wrote:

it for sure makes no sense what I've posted.

So we are done here, right?

IamTheDanger

This is going in circles and starting to get inappropriate. Locking thread before it goes too far.