*** The Hood (Classic) ***

Unknown

The devs said The Hood is powerful, and it should be pretty obvious just looking at how prevalent he is on the top teams. Now why is The Hood powerful? Is it because he whips out a Twin Pistols from nowhere and then it's all over? Or is it because of Dormammu's Aid? You can even say Intimidation + World Rupture is what makes him overpowered. Twin Pistols is never going to be the answer as to 'what makes The Hood powerful', so this nerf makes no sense. He can have only Dormammu's Aid as his skill and he'd still be a top tier character. I can tell you I'm sure not using him for Intimidation when I pair him up with X Force and no I don't whip out a Twin Pistols from nowhere to seal the game either.

Now can they nerf Dormammu's Aid without making him useless? Not really, but that's why they get paid to figure out solutions to seemingly difficult problems. This fix does absolutely nothing at fixing the character and is just asking for problem later. Dormammu's Aid is just way overpowered and pretending that changing Twin Pistols, which is rarely used in any game because of its sheer cost, is just running away from the problem. I might use Twin Pistols once every 3 games in PvP, and maybe once every game in PvE against guys that are level 250+ (because they have enough HP for the game to go on that long), and this change isn't going to make any difference in PvP given how infrequent Twin Pistols is used there. Might make a difference for PvE, but I doubt this change was to address fighting level 250+ guys.

Dayv

This new version of Hood's yellow is terrible.

I'm hesitant to use any move that ends the turn, especially one with a significant board shakeup.

Truly, truly terrible.

Unknown

Btw it's always funny to me to see people picking abilities out of a hat and comparing them disregarding colors and ability kits completely. Nobody even considers what would happen if Dino's purple skill was Aggressive Recon.

GrumpySmurf1002

While Sentry and The Hood are mighty heroes, under certain circumstances, ability exploits could arise. We wanted to address these exploits and make the game more fun for everyone.

Stun locking with Spidey = exploitable skill. Nerfed.
cMags infinite turn = exploitable skill. Nerfed.
Before my time, but cStorm's old red generator(?) Nerfed.

I think there are others (Rags?), but that's the gist. They seemingly nerf things that fall outside of the basic functions of the power.

Bold is why DA wasn't nerfed. It's a powerful skill, but not an exploitable one. You can't infinite turn his blue. With charged tiles coming, you can exploit Twin Pistols (or so was hypothesized). Devs either discovered it themselves, or way more likely were cued into it by NP's post, which they presumably then play tested and said "oh ****." So they addressed it before it was even a thing.

Sentry's speed kill was the exploitable skill, so they (attempted to) slow(ed) it, but left the power itself intact. We can debate all day about the impact it will have, but the speed is what they attempted to nerf, not necessarily Sentry himself.

Unknown

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

I think there are others (Rags?), but that's the gist. They seemingly nerf things that fall outside of the basic functions of the power.

Look up Loki when he was first released if you want to have a laugh

Pwuz_

Well since my Hood is still stuck at 5/3/5, this change is going to make him more...damaging? The AP gain on TP was hardly more than an afterthought for me before, seriously who's prioritizing Yellow? Perhaps IF I could ever get my hands on that illusive 4th Blue cover, I may end up using it more, but for the time being it's rare that I get it off.

His Black on the other hand is only used when I have NO OTHER Black powers on my team. I can't think of a single 3* Black Power I would use Intimidation over.

I'll likely still end up building towards 5/5/3 eventually. Even when I finally get a Sentry loaded up and ready to go, I just don't see myself using Intimidate that often. Now if Loki gets a 3rd power like has been suggested that spits out near endless countdown tiles...

Unknown

ark123 wrote:

Btw it's always funny to me to see people picking abilities out of a hat and comparing them disregarding colors and ability kits completely. Nobody even considers what would happen if Dino's purple skill was Aggressive Recon.

I think that'd be Prehistoric Recon.

dr tinykittylove

Good on sentry nerf.

Hood nerf makes no sense. If you wanted to avoid abuse of the ap gain from charge tiles, fine, but it's still not that great even with the increased damage considering the cost. There are lots of skills that do as much or more at lower cost and don't end the turn. He's already the squishiest character in the game.

Please don't make Hood yellow end the turn.

Unknown

A couple of good buffs (among which IW) would have been welcome with these nerfs.

Unknown

arktos1971 wrote:

A couple of good buffs (among which IW) would have been welcome with these nerfs.

I agree. I like a little buff with my nerf. It tastes better that way.

orionpeace

I'll echo the sentiments of others, I am not pleased with the nerf to Hood's Yellow.

I have no objection to replacing the AP gain with Damage. But making a board shakeup power that costs 15AP end the turn is just ridiculous.

I have no doubt that many of us recently won Black covers that we discarded because we wanted to keep Yellow at 5 so it wouldn't end the turn.

There is nothing about the Yellow power that warrants ending the turn. This change feels petty and pointless.

Spoit

Yeah the poll should be reset in the light of the change. I've seen arguments that 5/5/3 is still better, since 3Y is about a quarter of 5, way bigger of a gap than most 3->5 comparisons (which are about double), and 3 black is of course sufficient for everyone who isn't sentry

ZeiramMR

I do feel that Hood's yellow was over-nerfed, but I believe their rationale for the "ends turn" has more to do with it being a yellow power than it being "weaker" than other strong powers being mentioned. Look at the three other good Yellow active powers on Rare characters:

Thor - Max Level: Deals 2486 damage and Converts 9 tiles to green for 12 AP.
Black Panther - Max Level: 3x Strength 175 Strike tiles, 260 with Team-Up AP for 9 AP.
Sentry - Will become Max Level: Takes 1724 for 571 strike tile for 8 AP.

Those seem much more on a comparable level to Hood's power to me. Are there any other notable Yellow active powers at that rarity level worth mentioning? Only other one I could consider was Magneto but that's hard to gauge since it is a defensive power. Maybe in 4-star land, but I haven't seen enough of those in use to compare even if I did think those were a fair comparison.

over_clocked

I was playing X-Force/Hood a lot in 4or Lightning Rounds. Trust me I couldn't just steamroll the AI once I got 9 blue.
You imagine it goes like this? Collect blue, use Power Surge, match all the yellow tiles, use Pistols, proceed to steamroll?

It was NOT like that at all!

You needed some incredible board luck for that. Usually, I couldn't throw out Power Surge as soon as I got 9 blue AP, because that move is a double-edged sword and could potentially hurt me more than it could benefit me (and it often did even at 4 covers!). I could only maybe semi-reliably take advantage of Power Surge/Smite + Pistols or Surgical Strike combos when at least one opponent was already dead (meaning it is not even close to the Sentry + boosts speed and abusability).
Stunlocking did not work from the get-go, and wouldn't even if I boosted 3 blue/3 yellow (which I didn't). Maybe some people think of abusing the skill combos in the context of boosting 6 blue/yellow AP, that would be for P2W shieldhoppers or rare situations otherwise, but how is it any different from the proposed Sentry design?

This is a damage buff but a severy utility nerf for Pistols. And we already have all kinds of damage guys and not nearly enough utility that doesn't suck (Shulkie, Falcon, Spider-Man, Octopus, Loki, etc? All relegated to PvE-only).
Congratulations, you just made Hood yellow borderline unplayable for humans. It can end a match which is new but again, that's an ability that is far far better used by the AI and not the player. The AI doesn't care that its Hood is now under attack after ending his turn, and that they didn't gain AP or set up cascades for themselves - the AI already did its damage. For the player, it's inversed. Do we even want to spend 15 valuable AP (one of the three power colours before 4or arrives: green, black and yellow) for some 6k damage at maxed covers? But lose a turn, risk our squishiest valuable character AND set up a board that might be favourable for the AI?
Forget special tiles, while Pistols are extremely useful for that, ending the player's turn after a major board shake-up is not worth it to remove a couple of special tiles, unless it's something like Sacrifice or Nick Fury's purple.
Right now, Hood yellow is a skill that I don't use every game, but gladly will every time I can. It's versatile, useful, not OP because it costs a decent price on a very valuable colour.
After proposed changes, it will achieve Supernova (edit: or rather GSBW red) status for most players - a generally unplayable nonversatile skill that can be used to end a match in a pinch.
Can't we go like this maybe?
Always costs 15 AP, removes 2 selected 3x3 blocks, deals at least 3k damage at 3 covers when lvl 166.
Ends the turn at covers 1-2, doesn't end the turn at cover 3, increases damage at cover 4, EARNS AP at cover 5.
Oops.
I understand I'm proposing almost a straight upgrade but honestly if you want to nerf Hood for some reason I can't imagine, I have to agree with Phantron, you leave Pistols alone and change Dormammu's Aid instead. Which is impossible without ruining the skill, ha.

Nerf/rethink/funbalance charged tiles and boosts instead. Why do you need to nerf a 3* to help out your 4* cause? Maybe just rethink charged tiles and make them double charged, not triple charged?
I swear you better nerf 4or while you can rather than Hood yellow which was balanced in the first place even considering 4or. Had the outdated AP decrease upgrades and did next to no damage on its own, that I agree with, that could use a buff
What about Surgical Strike, or Storm green? Are we expecting nerfs to them too in this context? They both use green and black, colours 4or doesn't even use herself unlike yellow.

P.S. Don't care about Sentry changes, only numbers were changed and not the essense, might be easier to adjust further.

Unknown

ZeiramMR wrote:

I do feel that Hood's yellow was over-nerfed, but I believe their rationale for the "ends turn" has more to do with it being a yellow power than it being "weaker" than other strong powers being mentioned. Look at the three other good Yellow active powers on Rare characters:

Thor - Max Level: Deals 2486 damage and Converts 9 tiles to green for 12 AP.
Black Panther - Max Level: 3x Strength 175 Strike tiles, 260 with Team-Up AP for 9 AP.
Sentry - Will become Max Level: Takes 1724 for 571 strike tile for 8 AP.

Those seem much more on a comparable level to Hood's power to me. Are there any other notable Yellow active powers at that rarity level worth mentioning? Only other one I could consider was Magneto but that's hard to gauge since it is a defensive power. Maybe in 4-star land, but I haven't seen enough of those in use to compare even if I did think those were a fair comparison.

Do any of those have the best passive in the entire game?

Again, Give Dino Aggressive Recon and he becomes the best enabler in the game.

Characters are more than isolated skills.

dkffiv

ZeiramMR wrote:

I do feel that Hood's yellow was over-nerfed, but I believe their rationale for the "ends turn" has more to do with it being a yellow power than it being "weaker" than other strong powers being mentioned. Look at the three other good Yellow active powers on Rare characters:

Thor - Max Level: Deals 2486 damage and Converts 9 tiles to green for 12 AP.
Black Panther - Max Level: 3x Strength 175 Strike tiles, 260 with Team-Up AP for 9 AP.
Sentry - Will become Max Level: Takes 1724 for 571 strike tile for 8 AP.

Those seem much more on a comparable level to Hood's power to me. Are there any other notable Yellow active powers at that rarity level worth mentioning? Only other one I could consider was Magneto but that's hard to gauge since it is a defensive power. Maybe in 4-star land, but I haven't seen enough of those in use to compare even if I did think those were a fair comparison.

IM40 and Magneto have better yellows than hood now. I would debatably use CapAm's yellow over hoods now as well as Colossus'. Still better than Spidey and Beast.

Unknown

I think the reason his yellow ends the turn is because his blue power is so tinnykitty good. He is already, arguably, the best player in the game. To make him a power player too and just go on business as usual might be to big a buff. They wanted to change (not buff) him because Mrs Thor and him could generate a hilarious amount of AP together. God I miss the anniversary.

Unknown

I don't get what's all this complaint about the yellow as if you used Twin Pistols on a regular basis in PvP or even PvE. They could get rid of the ability altogether and it'd have a minimal effect on PvP because you should use it for Sacrifice or Thunder Strike or Recovery almost always in PvP already, and PvE it might have an effect against very high level opponents but even then using Twin Pistols in PvE is more about getting some cool points as opposed to actually getting any value back for your 15 yellow AP. This change is baffling to me because I'd assume they know The Hood is overpowered but do they really think people lived in fear of The Hood's mighty Twin Pistols? Did anyone ever complain that Twin Pistols was too good besides some theorycraft with Thor that generally requires one character start out down, and if your 'win fast' strategy requires the opponent start with a guy down, it's really not that fast because games just don't start that way.

Spoit

Actually, yeah, I did use TP not too infrequently in pvp. You're often high enough in your health that recovery is just a waste of AP, whereas just being able to grab those 1-2 more green or black APs make it so you can win the game

Unknown

I'm astonished by the Hood nerf. Taking always the AP steal, ending the turn makes his yellow now pretty much useless.
That said, we now have more or less two useless colors on Hood, if you dont skill Hood for Sentry only and use his black.

Locked did a great summary on that, nothing to add. For me, the Hood nerf is the same category, as your initial alliance change and your initial MMR change.

Like his yellow is easy to get going... How many times do you really get to use it? For 4* Thor? How many AP do You need to store for what kind of exploit and ensure, that you can't get countered by the AI?

For the Sentry nerf: now, that a lot of players get to his Benedikts, you take them out (again) and leave X-Force only ? Who has got max X-Force? The vets. Thanks on their behalf for taking the rest Out of competition. We really enjoy, beging naives to staying behind.