POLL: Meet Rocket & Groot - New PVE - Like/Dislike?

TxMoose

I'm mixed. the scaling and overall time requirement feel somewhat comparable to the 'old style'. I still don't like the optimal play schedule because the entire day's time requirement HAS to be in ONE sitting. continuously. whereas previously, the overall time commitment was spread over 3 times - 2 shorter clears and one grind and flip if you play the flip. for my level I think they are about there on the scaling part of it. sub1 hood made me eat some healthpacks, but I don't anticipate much issue with sub2. the 2 day subs are really a big break because there's basically nothing to do unless you grind the bottom node between. I'm not doing much of that unless life just opens up lots of extra time with nothing to do.

Polares

Malcrof wrote:

Crowl wrote:

Polares wrote:

Difficulty is wrong again. Good rosters are again penalized, specially if you have buffed chars (like I do, having 4hor and Rhulk championed doesn't help me because they don't play well together but the systems adds the buffed levels of both).

They seriously need to take the base levels of boosted characters and not their boosted level, the player rather than the difficulty is what should be getting the boost from them.

Not sure where you are finding the penalty.. boosted champ Rulk and a lvl 400 5* here, with another 350, so my t3 avg out to over 350 easily. my highest node scaling topped out at 351, and it is all goons anyway.. maybe 1-2 minutes to clear? Seems like perfect scaling to me. No penalty anywhere.. if i had a champ 4thor, it would be even easier..

Scaling is actually perfectly fine on this one. I may think differently on the Doom/Mystique goon fed nodes in the final sub, but i doubt it, even an underleveled 4Thor and im40 can make short work of those, and sub 2 is so easy, i don't even bother with my 5*, i play around with lots of teams, because i can finally do that again.

So you find fighting 350+ juggs with two 350+ muscles is fair? And what about hood + bullesye + muscle also at 350+ ? Can your IM fight those and survive without yellow? I don't know you but if your board starts without yellow (which always happens when you use IM40) you are screwed. Or when you finally get the 6 yellow and all yellow tiles on the board are already muscle countdowns. And when the muscles put the first two strike tiles on the board you are almost dead. This is not what happens when you have maxed 3s, where your enemies are at 200 level. And if you lose at that level, you can just use any of your other 20-30 champed 3s.

Man I don't know how you can say this is easy. If you start with a bad board, you get killed, my 405 OML+350 4hor+170IM killed in a couple of turns after the muscles start spamming strike tiles like crazy. Yeah I won the node 7 times, but I lost a couple, so I needed to use health packs. Anybody with champed 3s would have a MUCH EASIER TIME.

Scaling is broken now, and enemies scale much faster after the 300 level (like all chars in the game, but because iso is a problem I can't use 20 champed 4s).

BlackSheep101 wrote:

Polares wrote:

Difficulty is wrong again. Good rosters are again penalized, specially if you have buffed chars (like I do, having 4hor and Rhulk championed doesn't help me because they don't play well together but the systems adds the buffed levels of both)

Not seeing this. I have high levels in both and have no trouble pushing to 7/7 on every node.

I'm in a kind S5 bracket, and have been tied with people in the top 10 after starting 4 hours last and hitting each node 4 times in both the first and second subs. I took each node in the first sub to 7/7 but did not grind any further, and finished 9th. 1st and 2nd place appear to be grinding 20's to ensure their placement. I do see the potential for abuse, and feel they should make every node bottom out at 1.

The 25 cp is set ridiculously low. If ridiculously low gets me the cp less than halfway through the event, then a reasonable threshold should be obtainable with reasonable effort throughout the event.

My scaling is usually around the 310-320 level, in this PvE my enemies are at 350+, so the new calculations have made the tournament harder for me. And as I said earlier there IS A BIG DIFFERENCE between enemies at 320 than enemies at 350.

One of the problems is that I have two champed 4s in this event, so this could have also helped getting this spike in difficulty. So again, BUFFED LEVELS SHOULD NOT BE USED FOR CALCULATING DIFFICULTY !!! Buffing my chars is making my life harder not easier !!!!!!

Calnexin

I like it, with the heavy caveat that I gave up on trying to reach a competitive spot.

I didn't take top progression on the last event - missed it by ~ 7k. I expect to make this one with time to spare, and I get to sleep. Which is nice.

Malcrof

Polares wrote:

Malcrof wrote:

Crowl wrote:

Polares wrote:

Difficulty is wrong again. Good rosters are again penalized, specially if you have buffed chars (like I do, having 4hor and Rhulk championed doesn't help me because they don't play well together but the systems adds the buffed levels of both).

They seriously need to take the base levels of boosted characters and not their boosted level, the player rather than the difficulty is what should be getting the boost from them.

Not sure where you are finding the penalty.. boosted champ Rulk and a lvl 400 5* here, with another 350, so my t3 avg out to over 350 easily. my highest node scaling topped out at 351, and it is all goons anyway.. maybe 1-2 minutes to clear? Seems like perfect scaling to me. No penalty anywhere.. if i had a champ 4thor, it would be even easier..

Scaling is actually perfectly fine on this one. I may think differently on the Doom/Mystique goon fed nodes in the final sub, but i doubt it, even an underleveled 4Thor and im40 can make short work of those, and sub 2 is so easy, i don't even bother with my 5*, i play around with lots of teams, because i can finally do that again.

So you find fighting 350+ juggs with two 350+ muscles is fair? And what about hood + bullesye + muscle also at 350+ ? Can your IM fight those and survive without yellow? I don't know you but if your board starts without yellow (which always happens when you use IM40) you are screwed. Or when you finally get the 6 yellow and all yellow tiles on the board are already muscle countdowns. And when the muscles put the first two strike tiles on the board you are almost dead. This is not what happens when you have maxed 3s, where your enemies are at 200 level. And if you lose at that level, you can just use any of your other 20-30 champed 3s.

Man I don't know how you can say this is easy. If you start with a bad board, you get killed, my 405 OML+350 4hor+170IM killed in a couple of turns after the muscles start spamming strike tiles like crazy. Yeah I won the node 7 times, but I lost a couple, so I needed to use health packs. Anybody with champed 3s would have a MUCH EASIER TIME.

Scaling is broken now, and enemies scale much faster after the 300 level (like all chars in the game, but because iso is a problem I can't use 20 champed 4s).

BlackSheep101 wrote:

Polares wrote:

Difficulty is wrong again. Good rosters are again penalized, specially if you have buffed chars (like I do, having 4hor and Rhulk championed doesn't help me because they don't play well together but the systems adds the buffed levels of both)

Not seeing this. I have high levels in both and have no trouble pushing to 7/7 on every node.

I'm in a kind S5 bracket, and have been tied with people in the top 10 after starting 4 hours last and hitting each node 4 times in both the first and second subs. I took each node in the first sub to 7/7 but did not grind any further, and finished 9th. 1st and 2nd place appear to be grinding 20's to ensure their placement. I do see the potential for abuse, and feel they should make every node bottom out at 1.

The 25 cp is set ridiculously low. If ridiculously low gets me the cp less than halfway through the event, then a reasonable threshold should be obtainable with reasonable effort throughout the event.

My scaling is usually around the 310-320 level, in this PvE my enemies are at 350+, so the new calculations have made the tournament harder for me. And as I said earlier there IS A BIG DIFFERENCE between enemies at 320 than enemies at 350.

One of the problems is that I have two champed 4s in this event, so this could have also helped getting this spike in difficulty. So again, BUFFED LEVELS SHOULD NOT BE USED FOR CALCULATING DIFFICULTY !!! Buffing my chars is making my life harder not easier !!!!!!

Actually had no issues in sub 1, lvl 400 OML + jeanwitch made fast work of even lvl 350+ juggs and his goons.. did my 7/7 quickly enough. The juggs node, i actually did with OML + lvl 150 5/3/5 ant man and champ XDP not jeanwitch all the time.. mixed it up, for fun. Same with the bullseye / muscle/hood node, broght in 3* marvel , lvl 130 bagman (nullifies strikes , shields, and cd tiles) and champ IMHB just because, and won easily .

Coming late to the OML party i have lots of creative teams for lots of different types of boards, OML is not my crutch. long before 5*s, i learned you had to get creative in The Gauntlet, when there were lvl 395 nodes and no such thing as 5* or champion anything.

Azoth658

Jam_Adams wrote:

I feel like you people's opinions are being influenced by the really low progression target. which, by the way, changes every event, and sometimes quite significantly depending on what socks Programmer B is wearing that day.

what would your opinion be if the target was the in 40s like the other three runs of this event?

it just seems a little off that the past targets were 44, 44 and 46 (or similar) and now it's 30? I would not expect this to be the norm. it's seemingly obvious that that lowered it intentionally to get people's participation up since this is a test. the last time the target was abnormally low was the most recent test IIRC. I like that I will get that LT. but I am trying not to let that cloud my judgement.

Yes the 25CP rewards are lower in the tests. Probably because they are planned to be lower as they have been lower and "easier" to obtain in each test. Rubber banding doesn't factor in because the idea is play when you want. So making the progression awards more accessible.

What I find interesting is that where there are comments about the things people like it is people who enjoy true PVE and not the placement stuff.

The dislike it from people who are after the additional placement rewards.

If placement rewards were removed would the people complaining about the hours etc still be complaining or would they prefer the new format?

LordXberk

First, to be clear, is the poll asking about this new test v. the current PVE system or prior tests? I voted dislike (relative to the current system) but it is an improvement from the last PVE test.

Second, as Jam Adams pointed out, the max prog is very, very easy this time, which is definitely impacting the positive votes here. I'm hopeful they keep it at the '3 clears on every node = 25 CP,' but if they do, they should add rewards above (maybe a 5k ISO or 4* cover).

Third, there are just too many changes going on at once, IMO. Changing scaling, new timer v. current system, lower max prog, the 20pt node issue. Tough to isolate which changes are good v. bad. Scaling is better than prior tests and the clarity about increasing scaling as you beat a node is nice; however, I agree that the Juggs + feeders node was challenging w/o a good board if you have 5*s.

Fourth, this new system is fine when the t100 prizes are worthless to vets, but wait for the new release. Have fun playing for 4 straight hours for 7 straight nights twice a month as they keep jamming new 4*s down our throats.

TxMoose

Malcrof wrote:

Actually had no issues in sub 1, lvl 400 OML + jeanwitch made fast work of even lvl 350+ juggs and his goons.. did my 7/7 quickly enough. The juggs node, i actually did with OML + lvl 150 5/3/5 ant man and champ XDP not jeanwitch all the time.. mixed it up, for fun. Same with the bullseye / muscle/hood node, broght in 3* marvel , lvl 130 bagman (nullifies strikes , shields, and cd tiles) and champ IMHB just because, and won easily .

Coming late to the OML party i have lots of creative teams for lots of different types of boards, OML is not my crutch. long before 5*s, i learned you had to get creative in The Gauntlet, when there were lvl 395 nodes and no such thing as 5* or champion anything.

sounds like you're ok with gating pve performance with an OML litmus test. I managed nearly all the nodes to green checks. left 1 in the thor essential on sub1, but was still t10 for the sub because I caught a new-ish bracket. that thor essential just ate tons of health packs and I wasn't eating tacos to search for healthpacks for this. without OML, level 3xx hood is tough. I winfinited him on the main nodes, but not really doable on the essentials. boosted thor is great with im40, but 6 yellow becomes difficult at times.

Polares

Malcrof wrote:

...

Actually had no issues in sub 1, lvl 400 OML + jeanwitch made fast work of even lvl 350+ juggs and his goons.. did my 7/7 quickly enough. The juggs node, i actually did with OML + lvl 150 5/3/5 ant man and champ XDP not jeanwitch all the time.. mixed it up, for fun. Same with the bullseye / muscle/hood node, broght in 3* marvel , lvl 130 bagman (nullifies strikes , shields, and cd tiles) and champ IMHB just because, and won easily .

Coming late to the OML party i have lots of creative teams for lots of different types of boards, OML is not my crutch. long before 5*s, i learned you had to get creative in The Gauntlet, when there were lvl 395 nodes and no such thing as 5* or champion anything.

I guess we are not going to agree on this one, so let's just agree to disagree

Anyway, tell me something though, who do you think has an easier time playing this PvE test, someone like you or me with 5-6 champed 4s and one 400 level 5, or someone with 20-30 champed 3s, and some covered 4s also at 170 level?

Imagine now someone with two 400 level 5s, which will have the enemies at around 380+ level. Who has it easier now?

Redrobot30

Like.

As a competitive player probably dislike. To make top 10 you need to dedicate a large portion of time now to grind the beginning of a subnode. I haven't tried to get that high in PvE since the Carnage release where I got 2nd place. Too much drain on me to get that high.

Now if you are like me and just play for progression then I prefer to play this way. It's alot more casual and I can actually play this game around my life and not the other way around. And if you hit the 25CP progression you are usually going to get at least top 50-100, and that's fine by me.

fmftint

I honestly don't care either way, I'm farming resources, green checks then done, maybe grind a bit if I'm on a bubble

BlackSheep101

Polares wrote:

My scaling is usually around the 310-320 level, in this PvE my enemies are at 350+, so the new calculations have made the tournament harder for me. And as I said earlier there IS A BIG DIFFERENCE between enemies at 320 than enemies at 350.

Just to be clear, are they starting that high or getting that high after hitting them 4 times?

Warbringa

I really like this system with two important caveats. First, the progression should be kept close to this pace as noted above by other posts. There shouldn't be any bait and switch where progression rewards skyrocket in later PvEs (other than longer/shorter events etc.). Second, get rid of 20 point minimum on the trivial nodes. It really isn't good to have people, for any reason, spending hours grinding nodes for 20 points let alone the bot factor. It isn't good for normal players who don't do it and it isn't good for the players that spend hours of their life doing it. You can keep the 20 point minimum on harder nodes since people won't grind those for 20 points. If it easier for the devs that every node just goes to 1 eventually like it used to, that is fine by me.

If this change holds up, I will probably start actively playing PvE again as it is much more friendly for time management and balance than the old system and other tests.

Daiches

They added in a very noticeable exploit, that was called out to them before the event went live and they still went through with it. That alone invalidated the entire test.

Skygazing

Polares wrote:

Difficulty is wrong again. Good rosters are again penalized, specially if you have buffed chars (like I do, having 4hor and Rhulk championed doesn't help me because they don't play well together but the systems adds the buffed levels of both)

I'm actually having similar issues with the scaling and I don't even have any hugely boosted characters. Last event my top 4 were a boosted 361 Bobby, a 278 HB, a 272 JG, and a 265 SS.

My Bobby essentials capped out around 212, and the last node capped around 302.This wasn't much of an issue, since a 361 Bobby glides through just about anything, especially when paired with IM40.

My R&G scaling: Top 4 are a 278 HB, a 272 JG, a 271 Bobby, and a 271 XFW. Thoress essentials are capping at around 299 and final node is capping around 316.

With a boosted 4* last PvE I was facing 212/302 and with just regular 4*s this PvE I've been facing 299/316.

That's an insane difference, especially when you're facing down Hood. You can't tell me that finishing champing XFW made that much of an impact. I know that they said scaling would be "a bit higher" than current PvE, but having to face down a stupidly leveled Hood and maggia is nearly impossible without an equally boosted character. I managed to clear the fully scaled last node of sub 1 exactly once out of five attempts, after which I didn't even bother. And that required the slow stupidity of Hulk/MoStorm/KK, whereas the two attempts apiece I made with HB/IF/SW and Bobby/IM40/SW were all met with complete failure.

Scaling still needs to be tweaked, and despite personally capitalizing on the 20 point insanity, that needs to go too.

Smudge

Jam_Adams wrote:

I feel like you people's opinions are being influenced by the really low progression target. which, by the way, changes every event, and sometimes quite significantly depending on what socks Programmer B is wearing that day.

what would your opinion be if the target was the in 40s like the other three runs of this event?

it just seems a little off that the past targets were 44, 44 and 46 (or similar) and now it's 30? I would not expect this to be the norm. it's seemingly obvious that that lowered it intentionally to get people's participation up since this is a test. the last time the target was abnormally low was the most recent test IIRC. I like that I will get that LT. but I am trying not to let that cloud my judgement.

Based on the exact results of this particular test right now, I would be comfortable with the target being at 46,000.

I managed 7/7 clears on all nodes in sub 1 except the team-up node (it dropped to 20 points after 5 clears and I couldn't be bothered at that point). I'm at 4/7 clears in sub 2, waiting for the recharge to full points tomorrow, and I'm sitting over 28,000 points and 33rd in my bracket. I'll pick up the remaining 3 clears tomorrow, and then sub 3 will be increased points.

While I do agree with some of the flaws still remaining in this system, it's far and away better than the previous 3 tests. I hated the Prodigal Sun one so much that I only farmed for the CP from the nodes and finished with a mid-40k score. This version is a lot more palatable, and it's easier to farm on the whole even compared to the old system. I went from HATE WITH BURNING FIERY PASSION to, "If this is going to be the new version, I can accept it."

I do believe that switching to pure progression rewards instead of this garbage placement system would still be preferable, but it's honestly kind of nice starting my last node at level 140ish and finishing around 290, which is where my previous final nodes ended up scaling after several successful hits anyway, and they'd start at 250 instead. I can also appreciate that scaling is more difficult than it should be for stronger rosters than mine yet since I can't speak to that; I can only comment on my personal experience. Regarding scaling, it does still feel steep on some nodes. The essentials for sure get a little out of hand. They used to top out at around 190 across the board for me, and I'm seeing 259 for my Thor essential. She's boosted to 350 since she's my only maxed 4* which may have something to do with it, but that level is a little more punishing than what it used to be. Otherwise, it's been manageable. I can easily get 7/7 on all nodes now where I couldn't before.

Edit: In case it isn't clear, my vote for this system is "Like" - I see enough positive from this system when I compare it to the previous awful tests and compare it to the current 8 hour refresh system that I actually do like it. I can't say love, because we still have placement rewards, which is stupid, but like is a good word for this test.

mpqr7

Like, from someone not trying to win placement rewards. I've just given into the fact that I'll rarely win top placement, especially for new releases I'll probably not get top 100. Oh well!

But in terms of the difficulty scaling, I find it much more reasonable, and it's nice to be able to hit the node multiple times when I'm free instead of needing to do different sets of clears throughout the day.

BigBZ32

I'm indifferent. Scaling been fine for me. Boosted Rulk always makes things easier. Yes, I had to use health packs on some subs, but that's ok.

This seems ideal for casuals looking for progression and farming 7/7. Progression is great. Able to play at convenience is good and 4 clears only has good feel.

Overall, I think I'll still hit top 10, but there's been a little more effort for me. Which I think is ok, but this isn't the direction it used to be and I feel 8hr subs are more fair in terms of competition. The 20pt grinding can go or like others have stated make easy nodes down to 1pt. I want to scale back and be more casual, but my OCD at needing to "win" has me pushing top 10.

I still like the idea of non-competitive PvE. Use this format or make the easy nodes 1 point and bump the hard node mins up. Set 25 CP as is and have 4* covers earned accordingly. You can still have alliance rewards and placements.

revskip

I like it a lot. The change from 6 scaling jumps and clears to only 4 was my main concern with the last test which I was positive about. Don't really mind the 20pt refreshes, if someone wants to grind that way they deserve to get those 1st and 2nd place finishes.

Love being able to finish all of my PVE in one sitting at night leaving my day free without worrying that I won't get my top 50 finish because my schedule didn't allow for 8 hour check ins and optimal clears. Now if I miss out on a top 50 it is because every one else played the event harder than I did, not because I had plans and couldn't set my watch as optimally as someone else.

Stax the Foyer

Malcrof wrote:

Got the CP with 1.75 days left in sub 2, easiest progression ever. Loving the scaling and the trivials as well.

That's largely independent of the other aspects of the PvE test, though. It just means that they set a reasonable progression target for once.

Malcrof wrote:

Maybe a clarifyer for the poll.. those of us who dont care about placement, just progression and iso farming, this rocks.. can get my 7/7 whenever i feel like it, easily hit top progression and all node rewards.. without having to schedule anything .. my day is mine now.

Old system, if you did 7/7 immediately to get the iso, you lose out on top progression.

That's not really true. If you hit 7/7 at any point under the old system, you'd hit progression with this current progression target. It's set at 3x full value clears. Even 6/6 immediate hits under the old system would give you 3.5x full value clears. Then you can hit the last one for the final reward for 1 point if you want to, but you'd be just fine, assuming no strange interactions with 48 hour subs.

The low progression award is a distraction from meaningful feedback for exactly this reason. You're comparing regular apples to those tiny little apples. I believe that progression rewards have been creeping upward beyond 3x full clears in recent PvEs. Here, they made it much easier to achieve near optimal scoring, which would be a great thing in the absence of competitive PvE, but which puts competitive PvEers on an even more restrictive schedule.

Under the new system, 7/7 at any time will get you at least 6.5x full clear points, while optimal grinding will get you closer to 7.25x full clear points. Compare that to the old system where optimal clearing would get you a range of 3.5x to 6.5x full clear points. That's a lot of point compression at the top end, when an identical benefit for non-competitive players could be achieved by simply setting a reasonable threshold for the top progression award.

I absolutely agree that PvE shouldn't be on a clock, but as long as the ridiculous competitive aspect of it is in place for the best rewards, it's gonna suck for the competitive players, and this new system just makes it worse for people competing for the top rewards.

Ducky

Malcrof wrote:

Old system, if you did 7/7 immediately to get the iso, you lose out on top progression.

I literally did this the PvE before the test minus the survival nodes (only hit those 3 times) and I easily got max progression. Stop putting out misinformation.