Match making back to its old self?

RWTDBurn

Has anyone else noticed that the new match making system introduced last season seems to have regressed back to functioning almost exactly like the old one? In the 1 1/2 events so far this season I've only been able to queue up the same sub group of 60 or so players. Every single team so far naturally has OML at 360 or higher with most having at least 1 level 400+ 5*. So is this the reward for our years of playing this game? Those of us that get higher end 5*s now just get to pound on each other over and over again and play against the same team compositions every single time? It's bad enough that we all get lumped into the same brackets over and over again so that 1500 will only land in the top 50 while that would be top 5 in most other brackets so that now most of us get less rewards, but we also don't get any variety in play. It's not like we can go into PvE to play as different characters as we now get over the top scaling in PvE events that forces us to have to use the same 3-4 characters on every single node as even most of our 4*s aren't useful.

I'm just going to apologize now to anyone that I hit multiple times in the same event (and likewise have zero harsh feelings to those that hit me repeatedly). I really try not to do that but with the extremely limited pool of players we can queue up now it's unavoidable.

OneLastGambit

Are you suggesting that the 5* players should be able to target those poor 2 or 3* players? Your post seem like you want to be able to use your 5* toys but not face any 5* toys. If I've read it wrong then my apologies but if not then thats a very silly approach to the game.

Ultimately the only thing you will see as 5* player is other 5*s now the lack of variety just comes with the fact that most don't have 5*s other than oml well covered at the minute because it's still a fairly new tier.

mpqr7

I don't like being double and triple tapped very quickly.. it makes my hops stressful and last forever.

But yeah if someone hits me just once, I don't even notice. It's fair.. I'm there and who else can they hit?

mohio

The game has a real problem with 5* as everyone is already imminently aware and has been posted all over the place. I feel bad that you get stuck in q hell, but at the same time, I don't feel all that bad that you are not allowed to beat up on the 3/4* players that can't even hope to beat your team. Maybe you get hit by guys with level 550 5* and feel like you can't retaliate with your 400+ 5*, but that's how most 4* players feel when they get hit by you, so you should be able to sympathize. The problem is that the gap between 4* and 5* is way too large so the 4* players can hardly compete. At the same time, it doesn't make sense to essentially punish players for leveling up their roster, or being lucky enough to get well-covered 5*.

RWTDBurn

OneLastGambit wrote:

Are you suggesting that the 5* players should be able to target those poor 2 or 3* players? Your post seem like you want to be able to use your 5* toys but not face any 5* toys. If I've read it wrong then my apologies but if not then thats a very silly approach to the game.

Ultimately the only thing you will see as 5* player is other 5*s now the lack of variety just comes with the fact that most don't have 5*s other than oml well covered at the minute because it's still a fairly new tier.

Not at all. 2* and 3* players shouldn't have to face the wrath of 5* players. I'm referring to a mix of teams with championed 4*s and teams with level 360+ 5*s as well. As it is now, I can't even queue up a 4* championed/boosted team after the feeder teams. When I climbed each tier from 1* through 4* there was always a good mix of players above me 1 tier and below me 1 tier to both hit and be hit by. At 5*s though that's now gone. You only get equal players to hit and it's the same group over people over and over again. While that might sound fair to players not there yet, the reality is you have to ask yourself what are you actually playing for? By progressing near to the top of the food chain you are only making the game harder for yourself and setting yourself up to spend more to get less rewards.

I'm not asking to be able to pound on easy targets all day long, I just want that same mix of 1 tier lower targets at 5* that we had at 1* - 4*. Maybe this issue isn't due to match making, maybe it's due to a large number of those 4* players getting frustrated with not having the dumb luck it requires to get 5* covers and quitting.

Smudge

Stuff like this is what makes me wish the opponents you face are matched based on the team you are fielding, not just your top characters.

I understand the implementation would be tricky at best, but it's also part of why I don't really care if I find and am able to roster a multiple-covered OML anytime soon (I don't have him or GG at all at this point FYI, my 5*s are 5 cover Phx, and the rest are single-covered IM46, BSSM, and SS due to day 730 reward).

If MMR were based on the 3 guys you stuck in your team, it might actually encourage people to use characters outside of the top boosted 4* of the week plus OML. Maybe 4-5* players would even feel like mixing it up and playing with a 3* team once in awhile.

The "use the top team you can field or you're screwed, but oh hey that's all you can fight, too" shenanigans does get old after awhile...

EDIT: And while I'm at it, it does kind of feel like MMR is back the way it was to stay more OT to the OP. I haven't joined Cold War yet, but the Hood PvP saw me facing boosted 4Cyc all over the place. If it wasn't him, it was 270 Rulk and 270 XFW. News flash: I have the above 5*s, a 270 4Thor, and the rest are 188 (Nick Fury) or lower. Why am I queuing level 295 Hood, level 270 Rulk, and 270 XFW? I'm still mostly a 3* player...

OneLastGambit

RWTDBurn wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

Are you suggesting that the 5* players should be able to target those poor 2 or 3* players? Your post seem like you want to be able to use your 5* toys but not face any 5* toys. If I've read it wrong then my apologies but if not then thats a very silly approach to the game.

Ultimately the only thing you will see as 5* player is other 5*s now the lack of variety just comes with the fact that most don't have 5*s other than oml well covered at the minute because it's still a fairly new tier.

Not at all. 2* and 3* players shouldn't have to face the wrath of 5* players. I'm referring to a mix of teams with championed 4*s and teams with level 360+ 5*s as well. As it is now, I can't even queue up a 4* championed/boosted team after the feeder teams. When I climbed each tier from 1* through 4* there was always a good mix of players above me 1 tier and below me 1 tier to both hit and be hit by. At 5*s though that's now gone. You only get equal players to hit and it's the same group over people over and over again. While that might sound fair to players not there yet, the reality is you have to ask yourself what are you actually playing for? By progressing near to the top of the food chain you are only making the game harder for yourself and setting yourself up to spend more to get less rewards.

I'm not asking to be able to pound on easy targets all day long, I just want that same mix of 1 tier lower targets at 5* that we had at 1* - 4*. Maybe this issue isn't due to match making, maybe it's due to a large number of those 4* players getting frustrated with not having the dumb luck it requires to get 5* covers and quitting.

I can understand the situation but when you climb to the top of the mountain the air does get a bit thin. And honestly a champed 4* is no match for a 500 5* so they don't belong in your mmr in my opinion.

You touch on something I've pondered myself recently (see my post about fixing the game) Why should I work towards making then game more boring for myself? I've held off levelling my oml Because of that problem and am not entirely sure I will ever max him

As for only seeing oml At your level ? All but the biggest of whales won't have the others covered that's why you have a lack of variety.

RWTDBurn

OneLastGambit wrote:

RWTDBurn wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

Are you suggesting that the 5* players should be able to target those poor 2 or 3* players? Your post seem like you want to be able to use your 5* toys but not face any 5* toys. If I've read it wrong then my apologies but if not then thats a very silly approach to the game.

Ultimately the only thing you will see as 5* player is other 5*s now the lack of variety just comes with the fact that most don't have 5*s other than oml well covered at the minute because it's still a fairly new tier.

Not at all. 2* and 3* players shouldn't have to face the wrath of 5* players. I'm referring to a mix of teams with championed 4*s and teams with level 360+ 5*s as well. As it is now, I can't even queue up a 4* championed/boosted team after the feeder teams. When I climbed each tier from 1* through 4* there was always a good mix of players above me 1 tier and below me 1 tier to both hit and be hit by. At 5*s though that's now gone. You only get equal players to hit and it's the same group over people over and over again. While that might sound fair to players not there yet, the reality is you have to ask yourself what are you actually playing for? By progressing near to the top of the food chain you are only making the game harder for yourself and setting yourself up to spend more to get less rewards.

I'm not asking to be able to pound on easy targets all day long, I just want that same mix of 1 tier lower targets at 5* that we had at 1* - 4*. Maybe this issue isn't due to match making, maybe it's due to a large number of those 4* players getting frustrated with not having the dumb luck it requires to get 5* covers and quitting.

I can understand the situation but when you climb to the top of the mountain the air does get a bit thin. And honestly a champed 4* is no match for a 500 5* so they don't belong in your mmr in my opinion.

You touch on something I've pondered myself recently (see my post about fixing the game) Why should I work towards making then game more boring for myself? I've held off levelling my oml Because of that problem and am not entirely sure I will ever max him

As for only seeing oml At your level ? All but the biggest of whales won't have the others covered that's why you have a lack of variety.

I see plenty of Phoenix and some SS as well. Phoenix is often paired with OML as they are an effective team. This topic has strayed from my intent though as I wanted to hear from players at all levels to see if the new match making system is still functioning the same as it was when it was introduced. The change I saw with the new match making system was that I was seeing a mix of 5* teams and some 4* teams and I'm not seeing that anymore. I just want to know if others (regardless of level) are seeing the 'new' system acting exactly like the old system so far this season.

Smudge

I hinted at it when I edited my post, but yes, once I climb higher in the rankings in PvP, it seems like matchmaking is regressing. I still get pummeled early and late both by heavy-hitting, high leveled 4*-5* teams when I look at my retaliation nodes - they're usually 100 levels above my team as a team average.

The teams I am matched against until about 600 points or so tend to be 3* boosted or championed teams. That's fair, because that's where I sit. Once I get to 800-900 points, I hit a brick wall. Everyone I queue is running a championed required character, championed 4* character, and the third is either a 270+ well-covered OML or a second 4* champion. Jeanbuster or 350+ boosted 4*s are still above what my roster can handle, despite the fact that I have over 20 champed 3*s myself, primarily thanks to the sweeping nerf of 3*s. Somehow though, that's what I seem to run into...

To give you an idea of what my roster looks like...

270 4*Thor (not champed yet because she's optimally specced and I haven't gotten any more covers for her)
255 5* Phoenix (5 covers)
255 5* BSSM (1 cover)
255 5* SS (1 cover)
255 5* IM46 (1 cover)
188 Nick Fury (12 covers)
180 CMags
180 R&G
179 Blade
179 Torch
179 Patch

Not the strongest high level characters, obviously. I have 22 champed 3*s total. My next highest 4* is PX at 127 and 8 covers, then 115 is the highest level for my 4*s. IW has 12 covers, so I could always level her

Oh, and if you didn't know, the boosted 3* characters aren't exactly the best this week. They are Beast (not terrible, not great, but at least I champed him last week), Bullseye (not terrible except on defense, undercovered and level 40 for me), Daredevil (not terrible, not good, sucks in PVP though, champed), Mystique (meh, fully covered but still level 40 for me), and Squirrel Girl (meh unless against tile producers, fully covered but level 55 for me).

Not exactly a helpful bunch, but they still screw my MMR just like old times apparently. I guess boosted Daredevil and Beast are supposed to be able to compete with the likes of 4Cyc.

SnowcaTT

I found it to be the same 'ol - all the high points are in S4, because a bulk of the high players are in S4, and I can't float at basically any level without constantly getting slammed by 5*'s (highest character is a 300, horray! Love seeing 375 OML every other match!)

And if I'm in any other slice, I end up doing much better with maxed 4*'s. Bummer that my outside communication got cut off (thanks for that update, Line!). Bummer that outside communication stacks the slices so much and is the only (best) legitimate way to hit 1300....

Also 1st PVP is always terrible - since the 5*'s are also those trying to get season rankings (hate that these exist), so some of them start that first PVP incredibly late.

KGB

You should try being a 3* transition player. 50% of the teams I see feature a 5* character (most often OML) where there is just no chance of me beating said team when the other 2 characters are roughly equivalent (within 10-15 levels) of mine. That means I have to skip twice as often to find teams that don't feature a 5* on them.

I also get hit plenty by teams with a single 5* character and a couple 2/3*s so saying that 5* teams can't target non-5* teams just isn't true.

I wish the game would treat 5*s as 'essential characters'.

See a team with no 5* on it, all your 5*s are locked out. Similarly you'd only be able to fight a 5* character if you used one of your own.

The 'skip' button would queue up appropriate teams (ie you have a 5* in your 3 characters you'd see teams with 5* characters, don't have a 5* in your 3 characters you wouldn't see any teams with a 5*).

KGB

mazerat

No, match making feels very different from what it did before. I get hit frequently at 100 or fewer points whereas before I could get all the way to 300 or more before taking hits. Seed nodes seem to be reduced. I haven't seen any at all the last two events and other people have mentioned that they had some queued up that disappeared when they didn't hit them immediately. It also just feels a lot stingier. Prior to last season, 600 wasn't too bad and I could push 800 with effort. Now 400 is almost my ceiling as people just run out of points to give and I get attacked increasingly frequently. I managed to hit all of 430 on Cold War before getting knocked down to 290.

I still see OML and JGP teams. I still see boosted teams and 3-star teams above my level. Tl;dr Everything is the same except I'm getting hit more and my opponents give me fewer points. Such balance!

OneLastGambit

RWTDBurn wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

RWTDBurn wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

Are you suggesting that the 5* players should be able to target those poor 2 or 3* players? Your post seem like you want to be able to use your 5* toys but not face any 5* toys. If I've read it wrong then my apologies but if not then thats a very silly approach to the game.

Ultimately the only thing you will see as 5* player is other 5*s now the lack of variety just comes with the fact that most don't have 5*s other than oml well covered at the minute because it's still a fairly new tier.

Not at all. 2* and 3* players shouldn't have to face the wrath of 5* players. I'm referring to a mix of teams with championed 4*s and teams with level 360+ 5*s as well. As it is now, I can't even queue up a 4* championed/boosted team after the feeder teams. When I climbed each tier from 1* through 4* there was always a good mix of players above me 1 tier and below me 1 tier to both hit and be hit by. At 5*s though that's now gone. You only get equal players to hit and it's the same group over people over and over again. While that might sound fair to players not there yet, the reality is you have to ask yourself what are you actually playing for? By progressing near to the top of the food chain you are only making the game harder for yourself and setting yourself up to spend more to get less rewards.

I'm not asking to be able to pound on easy targets all day long, I just want that same mix of 1 tier lower targets at 5* that we had at 1* - 4*. Maybe this issue isn't due to match making, maybe it's due to a large number of those 4* players getting frustrated with not having the dumb luck it requires to get 5* covers and quitting.

I can understand the situation but when you climb to the top of the mountain the air does get a bit thin. And honestly a champed 4* is no match for a 500 5* so they don't belong in your mmr in my opinion.

You touch on something I've pondered myself recently (see my post about fixing the game) Why should I work towards making then game more boring for myself? I've held off levelling my oml Because of that problem and am not entirely sure I will ever max him

As for only seeing oml At your level ? All but the biggest of whales won't have the others covered that's why you have a lack of variety.

I see plenty of Phoenix and some SS as well. Phoenix is often paired with OML as they are an effective team. This topic has strayed from my intent though as I wanted to hear from players at all levels to see if the new match making system is still functioning the same as it was when it was introduced. The change I saw with the new match making system was that I was seeing a mix of 5* teams and some 4* teams and I'm not seeing that anymore. I just want to know if others (regardless of level) are seeing the 'new' system acting exactly like the old system so far this season.

My apologies I think I helped derail your thread.

My mmr works pretty well. I see what I thin is appropriate teams most of the time and every now and then something way out of my league.

TxMoose

my floating level continues to decline. it used to be 600s, sometimes 700ish was doable. no I struggle to stay in the 600s over longer periods of time leading up to my time for my big push. I'm adding 4* champs as fast as I can and am finding I have more boosted into the 350s+ than before, but that doesn't stop anyone, especially the numerous OMLs out there. not sure if it has anything to do with mmr or more to do with more and more people pulling enough OMLs to make it worth leveling him.

edit: not looking forward to the next time I don't have a 4* boosted. that might be rough.

Smudge

TxMoose wrote:

my floating level continues to decline. it used to be 600s, sometimes 700ish was doable. no I struggle to stay in the 600s over longer periods of time leading up to my time for my big push. I'm adding 4* champs as fast as I can and am finding I have more boosted into the 350s+ than before, but that doesn't stop anyone, especially the numerous OMLs out there. not sure if it has anything to do with mmr or more to do with more and more people pulling enough OMLs to make it worth leveling him.

edit: not looking forward to the next time I don't have a 4* boosted. that might be rough.

I forgot to mention that. If I even try to climb over 300 without shielding, I will get hit until my score equalizes back to 300... I used to be able to float at 500. The teams hitting me are all solid 4* and 5* teams for the most part, too.

It may be important to note that I only shoot for 1000 at this point and not 1300, but even that has been a struggle since the CMags PvP test event. I've pulled it off twice.

jobob

MMR seems to be different this PVP than recent ones. I know a lot of people picked up more 5* talent in CW, so I expected more targets. Not so. I am way more frequently in Q jail with just a few players.

Last night, I tried skipping targets just to see... I used 500 ISO- 50 skips- and cycled through the same THREE targets.

THREE TARGETS.

That's ridiculous. I know for a fact there were people at a similar score who weren't shielded, but I never saw them.

I agree 5* shouldn't get to beat up on 3* all day... But why should 3* get to climb past 5* with no fear of getting hit by them? Score needs to be factored in somehow as well (beyond just getting to the point where you effectively "break" the MMR.)

You shovel always have a pool of more than THREE people to hit. Regardless of how bad or good your roster is, I think everyone can agree that's too low.

jredd

jobob wrote:

MMR seems to be different this PVP than recent ones. I know a lot of people picked up more 5* talent in CW, so I expected more targets. Not so. I am way more frequently in Q jail with just a few players.

Last night, I tried skipping targets just to see... I used 500 ISO- 50 skips- and cycled through the same THREE targets.

THREE TARGETS.

That's ridiculous. I know for a fact there were people at a similar score who weren't shielded, but I never saw them.

I agree 5* shouldn't get to beat up on 3* all day... But why should 3* get to climb past 5* with no fear of getting hit by them? Score needs to be factored in somehow as well (beyond just getting to the point where you effectively "break" the MMR.)

You shovel always have a pool of more than THREE people to hit. Regardless of how bad or good your roster is, I think everyone can agree that's too low.

same thing happened to me in the hood event. literally the same 3 opponents, none of which i had shot at beating. frustrating.

donnel

It sounds like the experience with MMR changes varies greatly by roster, but for me personally it is a big improvement to what I've seen before (I've got a 5* champ and lots of champ 4*s). Previously, I would be restricted to only seeing 5*s in my level and points range, which meant basically 3-4 queues until breaking above 800-1K pts. Now I can see a much larger range of floating points and teams. Cycling through 3 queues endlessly is not a fun way to play the game (for anyone), so for me this is a step in the right direction.

Quebbster

This thread makes me Think of this sketch. Thank you for brightening my day.

Lemminkäinen

RWTDBurn wrote:

Not at all. 2* and 3* players shouldn't have to face the wrath of 5* players. I'm referring to a mix of teams with championed 4*s and teams with level 360+ 5*s as well. As it is now, I can't even queue up a 4* championed/boosted team after the feeder teams. When I climbed each tier from 1* through 4* there was always a good mix of players above me 1 tier and below me 1 tier to both hit and be hit by. At 5*s though that's now gone. You only get equal players to hit and it's the same group over people over and over again. While that might sound fair to players not there yet, the reality is you have to ask yourself what are you actually playing for? By progressing near to the top of the food chain you are only making the game harder for yourself and setting yourself up to spend more to get less rewards.

Wait, you are fighting up to 1300 points going only against the same few 5* teams? That sounds really horrible.

RWTDBurn

Lemminkäinen wrote:

RWTDBurn wrote:

Not at all. 2* and 3* players shouldn't have to face the wrath of 5* players. I'm referring to a mix of teams with championed 4*s and teams with level 360+ 5*s as well. As it is now, I can't even queue up a 4* championed/boosted team after the feeder teams. When I climbed each tier from 1* through 4* there was always a good mix of players above me 1 tier and below me 1 tier to both hit and be hit by. At 5*s though that's now gone. You only get equal players to hit and it's the same group over people over and over again. While that might sound fair to players not there yet, the reality is you have to ask yourself what are you actually playing for? By progressing near to the top of the food chain you are only making the game harder for yourself and setting yourself up to spend more to get less rewards.

Wait, you are fighting up to 1300 points going only against the same few 5* teams? That sounds really horrible.

Most of the time yes. There is a rotation of 40-60 players that all see each other most of the time in the 4th slice and have been for 8+ months. When they introduced the new match making system I suddenly started seeing a lot more players with a more varied team to fight against. So far this season though it's back to how it used to be. Last night when I was making my climb to 1100+ I got to the point where I could only queue up the same 5 people. I had already hit each one once and spent about 400 ISO trying to find someone different so I didn't double tap them before giving up and shielding below my goal around 1050. I had 2 players unshielded that had scores similar to mine (one was right below me the other 4 slots ahead of me) in the ranking that were unshielded but I couldn't queue them up. I looked at their rosters and they didn't have any 5*s leveled above 300. Sorry, but only being able to queue up the same 5 people in 40+ tries while people with scores in a similar range as me are unshielded is a broken system.