OMG stop releasing 4*s every 5 minutes!!!!

kevsmart

Oh they will, don't worry. They'll start releasing 5* every 5 minutes.

MojoWild

veny wrote:

Blahahah wrote:

Dear disgruntled forum user #150789905

1. You don't NEED to collect them all. Believe it or not, you don't need to own, level, or cover every single release...

Yeah, guys... exactly. Sell everything except for 5* covers. You wont need anything else for PvE or PvP.
And dont forget to tell DEVs they made almost 100 useless covers. Covers that you dont have to own or upgrade.

That's quite the leap in logic and I don't think what Blah was intending at all.

firethorne

The problem is less that there are too many characters and more that players, even non-casual ones, are having problems getting enough covers and ISO to keep up. It's one or two covers that remain useless for months. It's week after week of Titan matches where your new level 74 1/1/0 character gets obliterated. So personally, I think the problem would be better corrected from the other side

4*s are coming out just as fast or faster than the 3*s, but they never changes the rewards to match. They're still limited to a small amount of top placement. They're still 0.2% draws in most reward tokens. And even if you get them, there's still the ISO problem.

So, I think the better solution is to widen the road to progression. There needs to be 4* rewards in DDQ. There needs to be improved ISO in every aspect of the game. They're still treating 4*s like precious and rare little baubles. That is the thing that needs to change. They can make as many characters as they want, but it is **** to do so without reasonable ways to get them. And 70 node clears per day for 7 days to possibly win a single cover is not reasonable.

MaxxPowerz

Just think about it guys, the more 4* characters they add the better the draw rates! By the time we get to 100 4* characters, that .02% draw rate will give you a 2% chance of drawing a 4* character with a heroic token.

#MPQProgress

MaxxPowerz

Also, you don't have to own every character, but you kind of do have to own every character. The game punishes you for not having certain required characters because it hinders your ability to participate in events. I'm not saying that you deserve to have that character fully covered, but the thought of how missing out on a certain character can affect your gameplay experience in the events to come can be very discouraging.

Case in point: The only 4* character I don't have is Miles. It just so happens he is a required character to compete in the PVE for Winter Soldier's covers. Winter Soldier is going to be required for the civil war event (the devs have explained that he will only be partially required). Even still, this will hinder my ability to compete in the Civil War Event to obtain covers that will no doubt be important for some other event down the road. It's a snowball effect.

Blahahah

Vhailorx wrote:

Wow, blahahah, we clearly have a very different view of the game and the appropriate space for player criticism.

I won't respond in detail to your post as i suspect it would get us nowhere in the end. But rest assured I continue to disagree with you on almost all respects!

And kalex, I agree! Stepping back from competitive play is a wonderfully relaxing feeling. Enjoy the break!

I can understand why, just like in Civil War, both sides have ideologies that have varying degrees of correctness.

I feel like the player should be held accountable for their part in the expenditures, not simply the designer's job to ensure that everyone has every cover as soon as possible, but the players who invest to be competitive are paying for their spot in that top 10/25/50 area, which is entirely their choice and doing. That, in no way, is the game's fault.

However, to assume there's no incentive to buy in and no benefit is also incorrect. People who pay DO have better odds, ARE more competitive, and CAN reach rewards other players must struggle for longer to reach. The gap could be lessened a bit for the non-paying player, that much is easy to admit, but where is the line drawn?

That's the entirety of my issue: the purpose of this game is to enjoy it. If your favorite food is steak, but you choose not to eat it simply because everyone else is eating caviar with gold shavings, then you're no longer eating to enjoy, you're eating simply to eat. Likewise, if your goal is to enjoy this game and be competitive, but you feel that "competitive" only exists within the levels of people whom max out on day 1 and drop thousands on a whim, then you're not actually playing the game to enjoy it, you're merely playing it.

That's the opportunity cost: If you want to get every character to fight everyone else who has every character, you'll have to be ready to invest in every character that comes out. In my opinion, that is the player's choice as they can play without doing so just fine. Others may disagree, however at the end of the day do we assume D3 is inflicting this issue onto the player by releasing options, or do we assume the player is inflicting the issue on themselves by taking it upon themselves to purchase and slot every single one?


@Maxx
While your point stands valid (to some degree) I'm slightly doubtful that losing out on only one node will prevent you from getting top 100 when it otherwise would've been assured. Still, I'm not the kind of player to optimize because my bracketing is really absurdly good for some odd reason, so perhaps I'm blind to this point.

But the snowball you described doesn't roll very far. Old characters are usually the featured at least bi-weekly if there is no event, and new characters are often featured in the one event and then pushed to the back for about 32 weeks before being featured again. There's no reason to keep them for the entirety of that time, especially when you can simply re-earn them in the events just beforehand, and even moreso if you don't ever care for or want to maximize the character. I've been swapping 4*s out and around for basically the entire time and I think there was only one event where I didn't have the required character for the 4* node was when Venom was required because I just didn't care to bother with him.

TxMoose

Blahahah wrote:

[While your point stands valid (to some degree) I'm slightly doubtful that losing out on only one node will prevent you from getting top 100 when it otherwise would've been assured. Still, I'm not the kind of player to optimize because my bracketing is really absurdly good for some odd reason, so perhaps I'm blind to this point.

couple things. t100 doesn't require all essentials, true. but since I play pve mainly for the rewards, the biggest return comes from t50 sub hp and normal event placement covers and t20 release placement covers. t50, while doable without an essential, would require very optimal play unless you caught a fresh bracket (and release t20 not possible at all without an essential). speaking of which. if you stick to slice 4 because of the time ending, venture out - 4 is a killer. try 1 or 5. I know 5 doesn't require staying up for the flip to place decent.

KGB

MojoWild wrote:

veny wrote:

Blahahah wrote:

Dear disgruntled forum user #150789905

1. You don't NEED to collect them all. Believe it or not, you don't need to own, level, or cover every single release...

Yeah, guys... exactly. Sell everything except for 5* covers. You wont need anything else for PvE or PvP.
And dont forget to tell DEVs they made almost 100 useless covers. Covers that you dont have to own or upgrade.

That's quite the leap in logic and I don't think what Blah was intending at all.

Probably not but I suspect this is exactly the path that a large majority of new players are going to take. Basically bypassing the 4* tier entirely.

I'm in the middle of the 3* transition and 1 out of every 3 teams I see in PvP/Simulator is a 5* + 2 characters of 2*/3*. It used to be rare to see such a team but it's more and more frequent now. With CP's being in the supply list + progression reward CP's etc it's easy for newish rosters to start acquiring 5* characters really early and likely they will have multiple covers for those 5* long before they have multiple covers for a specific 4*.

If you imagine 40 4* characters it will take approximately 352 tokens to get 8 covers (320 4* + 32 5*). The remaining 5 covers to get to 13 I will assume can come from DDQ/specific event rewards. But 32 5* pulls gives you usable 5* characters that are way more powerful and don't need as much ISO to be useful since covers matter more than levels. So why bother with leveling / rostering those 4* characters if your maxed 3* characters can win you CPs / LT's.

KGB

veny

MojoWild wrote:

veny wrote:

Blahahah wrote:

Dear disgruntled forum user #150789905

1. You don't NEED to collect them all. Believe it or not, you don't need to own, level, or cover every single release...

Yeah, guys... exactly. Sell everything except for 5* covers. You wont need anything else for PvE or PvP.
And dont forget to tell DEVs they made almost 100 useless covers. Covers that you dont have to own or upgrade.

That's quite the leap in logic and I don't think what Blah was intending at all.

I am sure, but he made a very interesting point- we are not meant to get, max out or even champ all of our covers.
Lets do some math: As a free player, i am able to get 10 000 ISO per day in average (from DDQ, PvE, PvP, selling tokens etc.).
Maxing out one 4* cover needs 300 000+ according to wiki.
So, if we were getting one new 4* cover once a month, i would be able to max out everything thats comming.
Reality? After 3 years, 1000+ hours spent i have all 3*, all 4* (except for Punisher and Bucky) and two 5* (OML and Phoenix). Half of my 3* are champions. According to my calculations, i need over 15 000 000 (yes, i am not joking) ISO to max out all my current covers (plus 1M needed to max out 5* Cap. and Iron man).
Almost 5 years with current ISO inflow... and i am not taking future released covers into a consideration.

So again, whats the point of spending 300k to max out 4* cover? I can spend 600k to max out 5* cover that will be immortal.
Damn, even now i prefer using OML (level 260) instead of 3* champions (with same HP and barely better skills).

Blahahah

veny wrote:

MojoWild wrote:

veny wrote:

Blahahah wrote:

Dear disgruntled forum user #150789905

1. You don't NEED to collect them all. Believe it or not, you don't need to own, level, or cover every single release...

Yeah, guys... exactly. Sell everything except for 5* covers. You wont need anything else for PvE or PvP.
And dont forget to tell DEVs they made almost 100 useless covers. Covers that you dont have to own or upgrade.

That's quite the leap in logic and I don't think what Blah was intending at all.

I am sure, but he made a very interesting point- we are not meant to get, max out or even champ all of our covers.
Lets do some math: As a free player, i am able to get 10 000 ISO per day in average (from DDQ, PvE, PvP, selling tokens etc.).
Maxing out one 4* cover needs 300 000+ according to wiki.
So, if we were getting one new 4* cover once a month, i would be able to max out everything thats comming.
Reality? After 3 years, 1000+ hours spent i have all 3*, all 4* (except for Punisher and Bucky) and two 5* (OML and Phoenix). Half of my 3* are champions. According to my calculations, i need over 15 000 000 (yes, i am not joking) ISO to max out all my current covers (plus 1M needed to max out 5* Cap. and Iron man).
Almost 5 years with current ISO inflow... and i am not taking future released covers into a consideration.

So again, whats the point of spending 300k to max out 4* cover? I can spend 600k to max out 5* cover that will be immortal.
Damn, even now i prefer using OML (level 260) instead of 3* champions (with same HP and barely better skills).

I don't want to be like "yeah this" but... essentially yeah, this.e
If I had a competently leveled OML, I probably wouldn't look twice at most new releases tbh. Except for the cool ones I like, like Drax.

Polares

Blahahah wrote:

...

If I had a competently leveled OML, I probably wouldn't look twice at most new releases tbh. Except for the cool ones I like, like Drax.

It is much easier to not have all chars if you just play PvP. For PvP you just need the 10-20 best chars maxed, and that's it. If you are in 4 land, with IMHB, Jean, Iceman, Rhulk, cyclops, xpool, thing, CArnage and then the new Punisher, Nova and Quake you have enough. You can be over 1300 easily.

BUT if you want to play PvE, you need everyone in 3-4 land, so around 70 chars. Then you can rotate a roster position for the featured 2. You CAN'T be top100 without a featured essential when a new char is released. No way. At least not were I am, maybe if you have a very low PvE rating you can.

So if you like PvE you are screwed, if you like PvP on the other hand you can have a much easier life in general (you can also play less, and when you want to play).

Starsaber

JVReal wrote:

I'll have just enough HP to roster Winter Soldier, but I don't have Quake yet. I won't have room for IM 5*, Cap 5* or War Machine... With essentials requiring 2*, 3* and 4*, there's very few I'm willing to drop.

Already dropped Bag-man for Drax... teardrop...

2*s are common enough that I dropped down to 5 on my main roster and keep 1 extra copy in my queue for each of the others (except Bagman since he's never an essential) along with 1 rotating roster slot I use for whatever essential comes up that isn't on my main roster.