**[Movie]SPOILERS** Choosing sides on CW

Polares

Skygazing wrote:

(it's actually Ross, right?)

Oh man, of course it is Ross!!! I don't know how I could do that mistake, I am going to go to my room to beat myself up.

Crowl

Mawtful wrote:

I haven't seen the movie, but I've read the source story before and that definitely has a clearly defined villain. So I'm normally Team Cap and I will be for the movie - because Tony's already been established as a "villain" over the last few movies he's been in (specifically, Iron Man 2/3 & Avengers 2), and because it's Cap's movie and I'm pretty sure that the MCU is probably aiming to bring its Avengers line up closer to the All-New All-Different team.

He's hardly established as a "villain" just because his experiences in Avengers has led to him having a more protectionist attitude to how the team should be facing global threats.

The movie is far more even to both sides than the comics too.

Crowl

Suddenreal wrote:

Polares wrote:

PS: Man Spiderman is so kitty good!!! And Antman is also great!

Man, I hope when they do a Spider-Man movie they skip the origin story. There's no need for that anymore (how many times does uncle Ben need to die anyway? What did he ever do to be treated like that!) and any relevant information can just as easily be told or shown in flash backs. But yes, Spidey was amazing (unlike the Amazing Spider-Man).

Btw, nice pun

Marvel have stated that there is no need for them to do another Spidey origin and are not going to be doing one.

Dragon_Nexus

Suddenreal wrote:

Man, I hope when they do a Spider-Man movie they skip the origin story. There's no need for that anymore (how many times does uncle Ben need to die anyway? What did he ever do to be treated like that!) and any relevant information can just as easily be told or shown in flash backs. But yes, Spidey was amazing (unlike the Amazing Spider-Man).

Btw, nice pun

They've already confirmed they're not doing a reboot origin story. They've acknowledged that everyone knows spider man's origins at this point, hense his role in the movie being already established as a low grade hero before getting some Stark tech. He was kinda ground level like Daredevil or Jessica Jones before being recruited.

Which...made me kinda sad we didn't get a Spider Man Netflix series before Civil War came out.

Suddenreal

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

They've already confirmed they're not doing a reboot origin story. They've acknowledged that everyone knows spider man's origins at this point, hense his role in the movie being already established as a low grade hero before getting some Stark tech. He was kinda ground level like Daredevil or Jessica Jones before being recruited.

Which...made me kinda sad we didn't get a Spider Man Netflix series before Civil War came out.

Great news! I just hate reboots since we'll just get a rehash of the origin story and that's about it. And I think the reason that there was no Netflix series was because of the Sony thing.

But back to the movie, other than the whole Cap-Iron Man thing, how good was that Zemo plotline? I must admit, it completely blindsided me, and usually these type of things are as predictable as ever.

TxMoose

Saw it tonight with the kids and loved it. Really well done. Sets up Panther and spidey for more stuff. Lmao at antman at the airport. We need that ability in game or at least for that special pve. Of course my 14yo daughter loved spidey. My 17yo has always loved IM - don't see that but maybe I'm not supposed to

Pylgrim

The ending shows that both of them were right and that both mentalities need to survive, in two separate teams. It's the classic Gordon-Batman relationship. Gordon knows that Batman is technically a criminal, but also knows that Gotham, a city literally overridden with lunatic criminals, many of them superpowered, needs Batman. So he keeps a friendly relationship with him that allows him to exert a degree of influence and trust which is more useful than an enforced short leash.

Vhailorx

Pylgrim wrote:

The ending shows that both of them were right and that both mentalities need to survive, in two separate teams. It's the classic Gordon-Batman relationship. Gordon knows that Batman is technically a criminal, but also knows that Gotham, a city literally overridden with lunatic criminals, many of them superpowered, needs Batman. So he keeps a friendly relationship with him that allows him to exert a degree of influence and trust which is more useful than an enforced short leash.

Really? I kinda felt like IM and his side basically caved at the end.

Major Spoilers:

Widow switches sides and later on says 'we played it wrong'
Tony's rage and desire to kill bucky is also clearly wrong. We the audience are definitely supposed to sympathize with Bucky and the horrible trauma that he suffered over 70 years.

As much as i think the beginning of the movie really stresses that Tony and co. have a valid point, I felt like the move dropped that in the third act. Then again, the third act was also the weakest, since Zemo's plan doesn't make all that much sense when you stop to think about it (like many many movie villain plans, his scheme seems designed to unleash a twist on the audience rather than to actually work. I still blame Christopher Nolan and the Dark Knight!).

I kinda wish Marvel had the guts to do a real civil war story where there was no instigating villain; where the avengers broke apart entirely on their own. They could have developed two parallel teams of avengers with similar goals and wildly different methods (a la X-men v. Brotherhood). Maybe that's too dark a story for the target family audience, but it would have made the eventual reconciliation in the Infinity War films (or whatever they end up being called) must more interesting.

I liked the inclusion of Spidey, he was quite well done (if you want a very traditional version of the character). Look forward to Homecoming after the total debacle of the Andrew Garfield series. But I can't help but feel like the inclusion of Spider-man detracted from what should have been an awesome intro to black panther. BP was still pretty cool, but kinda lost in the mix.

loroku

Neither side was good. Neither side was bad. That's actually how life works.

Tony was 100% right about the accord. Even Steve knew he was right. No question there.

But Tony was wrong about how he treated Scarlet Witch, and how he went about trying to pressure Steve, and how he recruited a freakin' child(!!!!) - completely untested - to fight against a bunch of adults in a serious battle. Tony's ego got in the way, his selfishness showed through, and he was wrong.

But Steve was 100% wrong about Bucky. He was also being selfish: he couldn't let this last piece of his past die, not after Agent (Peggy) Carter, and he let a lot of people die who didn't have to just to save Bucky. Steve literally proved why they needed the accord.

Both men let their personal desires get in the way and caused even more collateral damage. The accord was right; they needed oversight. And in the end, Tony showed that Iron Man was just as bad as anyone else when it came to breaking the accord: he went rogue the moment he understood that there was a potential threat, and lost his mind when he found out the big (non)secret at the end - and while that was justifiable for any person, he's not a person anymore: he's an "enhanced." And "enhanced" can't afford to lose his mind like that, because when that happens, innocent people usually die.

So no one was completely right and no one was completely wrong. Steve was pretty close to being completely wrong but he was only wrong because he was trying so hard to do the right thing. And the movie was sure to tarnish the accord's side as well a little, just to keep it even: Bucky was to be executed on the flimsiest of evidence, without even a trial, even though he was innocent. On the other hand, his death would have meant dozens of other lives wouldn't have been lost.

In the end, the most impressive thing about the movie to me was that there was no big bad evil guy trying to destroy the world: just a regular man with a lot of time and patience, who managed to destroy the Avengers all by himself. A god with an army and a god-like AI could not, but this one, completely unspecial man did. How delicate was their house of cards that one man could undo it? As delicate as any house built on the foundation of vengeance.