So what happens when the 4* tier is done?

wirius

So we're nearing almost 40 4*'s, and I believe that's when the 3* tier ended.

At this point, more 4*'s are just padding the 4* pursuit, and becoming mere collector's items. What happens at 40? Do you think D3 continues on with 4*'s, or will they begin to release purely 5*'s with new 6* tiers?

Mawtful

Of course it's on to 5 & 6*'s, they've painted themselves into a corner on this one.

How much will the introduction of the first 6* character speed up the death of MPQ? Not sure.

fmftint

They could do something crazy like, slow down the release schedule to buy some time before they HAVE to add a T6

LordXberk

Hopeful that we'll at least get 5* releases at a slower pace than 4*s (1 per month?). They could also keep releasing 4*s - is there any magic to the 40 character threshold? That's just what they picked for 3*. That doesn't mean they can't have 80 4* characters. I'd still prefer they slowdown the releases of any characters. Maybe re-run some releases so we can get covers for the new characters and we can actually use them. Not holding my breath, though.

udonomefoo

1 - 8 characters
2 - 14 characters
3 - 40 characters

Tell me what about that pattern makes you think they will stop at 40 for the 4* tier. I'm guessing it'll be more like 60-70+ before they stop making more 4 s.

fmftint wrote:

They could do something crazy like, slow down the release schedule to buy some time before they HAVE to add a T6

I'm betting every release sees a corresponding spike in revenue, so they're not doing that.

TxMoose

I remember the day they lowered the 3* leveling costs so much. I had saved up some since there was chatter and my roster went from a few usable 3s to a nice, broad rosters of 120s. something similar is really needed here. a reduction of the cost of 4s up to the 180-200 range would be equivalent today. after that, along with ddq, progress happened so much faster. to go back and rebuild a roster to 3* play today can likely happen in a fraction of the time it used to take. would be interesting to actually see how fast I could do it, but I'm too invested at the top to mentally be able to set that aside. and no way I have time to keep both up. one is hard enough.

LordXberk

TxMoose wrote:

I remember the day they lowered the 3* leveling costs so much. I had saved up some since there was chatter and my roster went from a few usable 3s to a nice, broad rosters of 120s. something similar is really needed here. a reduction of the cost of 4s up to the 180-200 range would be equivalent today. after that, along with ddq, progress happened so much faster. to go back and rebuild a roster to 3* play today can likely happen in a fraction of the time it used to take. would be interesting to actually see how fast I could do it, but I'm too invested at the top to mentally be able to set that aside. and no way I have time to keep both up. one is hard enough.

Really need to start hoarding ISO now just in case they do this in the near-term...

Esheris

Side kicks....we add them to our max championed characters and they now team up and do bonus abilities.

Joking aside, I hope to see more events and new ways to earn all the characters (and some Iso) we have.

halirin

I think the reason for restricting the lower tiers is to make the first transitions easier for new players. It would make sense for 4*s to continue being diluted for a while more as others have pointed out.

SuperRecoome

I think they have a couple of choices. The easiest choice, but one that doesn't fix the overall problem of power creep, is to just add a 6* tier, to that properly, you'd have to change the way 1 stars work. Get rid of 1 star characters in standard tokens, 1 star characters will come cover maxed, at level 1 still, so you'd still have to level them, but they'd work like current champions do in that you can change their covers at will. Hand out 1 of each during the prologue, and hell either don't have 1 stars cost roster slots, or give enough roster slots during the prologue to use some of these guys.

Once you've done that, standard tokens now give 2 stars at the 1 star rate, 3 stars at the 2 rate etc..

Event and Heroics now give 3 stars to start 4 stars at 3 star rates etc..

This also increases the ISO flow since each standard token is worth a minimum 250 and each event a minimum of 500. So since 2 stars become the new 1 star so to speak, the ISO flow remains mostly flat.

Again though, this only kicks the can down the road a bit, because once the 5 star tier is done something else would have to happen.

The best thing they could do is get rid of tiers altogether.(or allow people to upgrade 1 stars to 2, then to 3 etc..)Though this would fundamentally change the game. Every new character starts at level 1, they would make the character itself easy to get, This would increase roster slot purchases, and if they all started at level one, this gets rid of the idea that current releases are worthless to a majority of the players. So you could do something like start them at level 1, with a level cap of 50 at max covers, once you hit the cap, you need something to break the cap, so like... a RED ISO crystal, or something unique to each character, like Caps' shield or something, with those being as rare as current 2 star covers are. So tokens are instead used to break the characters max level. You get that item, and the level cap raises to 94, get another more rare item and it raises to 166 etc.. just like the current star tiers are now, It's just a thought and not at all fleshed out.

Something does have to change and soon though if you want alive and well for a long time.

TxMoose

count me as one who really hopes we aren't heading towards 66+ 4* characters. surely they can come up with a better source of keeping player engagement than just cycling out new characters.

Pylgrim

aesthetocyst wrote:

udonomefoo wrote:

1 - 8 characters
2 - 14 characters
3 - 40 characters

Tell me what about that pattern makes you think they will stop at 40 for the 4* tier. I'm guessing it'll be more like 60-70+ before they stop making more 4 s.

Ha! You beat me to pointing that out. And agreed, a little number crunching puts the next point in that trend at no less than 66 if it's straight line. If exponential ... hold on to your hat ... 300.

That last projection would assume that the 4* tier IS the long-term game ... 10 years on a 2 week release schedule ... and 5*s the permanent cherry on top.

Anyone have 100M iso to spare....?

udonomefoo wrote:

I'm betting every release sees a corresponding spike in revenue, so they're not doing that.

Right. This isn't a game, it's a collecting hobby. Single source, direct distribution, supply on demand. No nasty overhead like transport, warehousing, or physical inventory. No need to rely on independent dealers, or retailers of any kind. Nice work if you can get it!

I really don't think that this logical, mathematical progression is intended or a hint of things to come. There have never been reasons for whatever limit they set for 1*s and 2*s but the reasons they gave for stopping making 3*s are pretty much valid for 4*s when they get to that point as well. While I don't expect them to stop exactly at 40, I don't think they'll go much higher than that.

Several things have to happen whenever they feel it's time to stop making 4*s: First, they finally must reach the very overdue acknowledgement that a new PVP event tier is necessary (and perhaps a DDQ one too) while other adjustments to the speed and ease of progression must be made as it was made for 3*s (for example the huge reduction in ISO costs to level them up as someone above suggested. However, their biggest pickle will be having to completely redo the 5* prizing scheme as the current one would be hilariously broken once they are releasing two 5*s per month. This is the difficult part because making 5*s acquisition any easier or more certain than today is prone to anger the people who have spent literally dozens of thousands of dollars in getting theirs.

energomash

SuperRecoome wrote:

I think they have a couple of choices. The easiest choice, but one that doesn't fix the overall problem of power creep, is to just add a 6* tier, to that properly, you'd have to change the way 1 stars work. Get rid of 1 star characters in standard tokens, 1 star characters will come cover maxed, at level 1 still, so you'd still have to level them, but they'd work like current champions do in that you can change their covers at will. Hand out 1 of each during the prologue, and hell either don't have 1 stars cost roster slots, or give enough roster slots during the prologue to use some of these guys.

Once you've done that, standard tokens now give 2 stars at the 1 star rate, 3 stars at the 2 rate etc..

Event and Heroics now give 3 stars to start 4 stars at 3 star rates etc..

This also increases the ISO flow since each standard token is worth a minimum 250 and each event a minimum of 500. So since 2 stars become the new 1 star so to speak, the ISO flow remains mostly flat.

Again though, this only kicks the can down the road a bit, because once the 5 star tier is done something else would have to happen.

The best thing they could do is get rid of tiers altogether.(or allow people to upgrade 1 stars to 2, then to 3 etc..)Though this would fundamentally change the game. Every new character starts at level 1, they would make the character itself easy to get, This would increase roster slot purchases, and if they all started at level one, this gets rid of the idea that current releases are worthless to a majority of the players. So you could do something like start them at level 1, with a level cap of 50 at max covers, once you hit the cap, you need something to break the cap, so like... a RED ISO crystal, or something unique to each character, like Caps' shield or something, with those being as rare as current 2 star covers are. So tokens are instead used to break the characters max level. You get that item, and the level cap raises to 94, get another more rare item and it raises to 166 etc.. just like the current star tiers are now, It's just a thought and not at all fleshed out.

Something does have to change and soon though if you want alive and well for a long time.

i like the idea of giving out the 1* characters for free. and make people complete the prologue but don't make them do the same levels eight times. By the end of the prologue, you have the HP to add each character to your roster, but you aren't seeing a 2* yet so you've got no choice (they can build it into the game that you have to have a specific character in your roster to complete a mission). once rostered, it's permanent and you've got to pour ISO into the character to boost their abilities, but with max covers, it'll not be hard.

2*s should be the basic token's smallest reward, but they could revisit that tier and add a lot more characters for depth to help hold back the floodgates on people championing people in a heartbeat.

3* can add more characters as well. basically add depth across the board instead of focusing on 6* spiderman and 7* venom characters that are inevitable. Phoenix is supposed to be one of the strongest characters in the Marvel universe and she's going to be lapped by an eventual wolverine or spiderman iteration.


on removing tiers... i can see how that could happen- but the damage output is going to have to basically be reworked for several characters and 1* BW will need a third power to not get the shaft. i'm not opposed to your item idea, but it's adding a level of complexity that i'm not sure that the game needs.

SnowcaTT

What happens if it never is? I suggested in another thread it's a reverse pyramid - double the previous tier. So we might be headed to 80 4*'s.

Which also might be likely if they've simply given up trying to do any innovation in this game. That path would take them ~24 more months, and they likely think that is the lifetime of a FTP.

wirius

SnowcaTT wrote:

What happens if it never is? I suggested in another thread it's a reverse pyramid - double the previous tier. So we might be headed to 80 4*'s.

Which also might be likely if they've simply given up trying to do any innovation in this game. That path would take them ~24 more months, and they likely think that is the lifetime of a FTP.

I hope not Snowcat. That would make trying to cover a 4* almost as bad as covering a 5*. 1/80 chance versus 3/100 chance

SpecSpecter

It's been thrown around a bit as a suggestion but it really feels like split tokens could really help with the character saturation. Not just with 4*s but for 3*s and 2*s too maybe (which, dare I hope, could then open up the possibility of those rarity levels getting more characters in them?). But just as thrown around is MPQs unwillingness to give this a shot, so...

Vhailorx

40 seems close to the right number for a tier because of the 3* experience, past 30 characters it becomes very hard to make interesting new additions if they aren't just more powerful. And if they ARE more powerful, then the older characters just look pathetic (look at 3* pun or psylocke relative to iron fist and Kamala khan).

This is already happening (punisher max is quite good, but by the time most people have him covered, they will already have spent hundreds of thousands of iso on iceman and imhb. Hard to justify more iso on punisher when 5*s beckon.

I think there will be moves to democratize the 4* tier over the summer after civil war. So that's adjusting the leveling costs, raising token drop rates, adding more 4* placement covers, 4* PvP events, maybe even more 4* ddq.

Then maybe 6*s can be rolled out sometime after the third anniversary, when a large body of gets start filling out their 4* benches.

Pongie

SuperRecoome wrote:

The best thing they could do is get rid of tiers altogether.(or allow people to upgrade 1 stars to 2, then to 3 etc..)Though this would fundamentally change the game. Every new character starts at level 1, they would make the character itself easy to get, This would increase roster slot purchases, and if they all started at level one, this gets rid of the idea that current releases are worthless to a majority of the players. So you could do something like start them at level 1, with a level cap of 50 at max covers, once you hit the cap, you need something to break the cap, so like... a RED ISO crystal, or something unique to each character, like Caps' shield or something, with those being as rare as current 2 star covers are. So tokens are instead used to break the characters max level. You get that item, and the level cap raises to 94, get another more rare item and it raises to 166 etc.. just like the current star tiers are now, It's just a thought and not at all fleshed out.

Something does have to change and soon though if you want alive and well for a long time.

I suggested pushing the champion level cap to 450 for all characters. The end goal then becomes a roster during the balance of power event. 1* no longer capped at level 40, 2* no longer capped at level 144 and 3* no longer capped at level 266. By doing so, you can then remove the lazy versions (since there is no point having 2 versions if both can scale to the same level at 450). This open up spots in the lower tiers for newer characters. eg. Want to add a new 1* to the game, drop storm (keep the 3* version), want to add a new 2* to the game, drop captain america (keep the 3* version) want to add a new 3* to the game, drop thor (keep the 3* version) etc.

Quebbster

fmftint wrote:

They could do something crazy like, slow down the release schedule to buy some time before they HAVE to add a T6

I Think that was what they were trying to do with Howard the Duck, actually. He was released at a time when I was expecting a new 5* to be added, it's possible they tried out the whole "limited release" bit to not have to add Another 5* just yet.

Polares

Right now, I think the best thing is to keep producing 4s, as many as needed, no max cap at 40. With the current model, all layers are still important, if they ever release a 6th layer, the game would become fully broken and there will be no chance of future for the it anymore. Imagine someone starting the game with 6 layers to start, they would need to pack the layers, almost giving 4s for free, with no competition at all until you get to the 4 land. That would kill the game completely for new players, and without the new blood the game would eventually die.

The 5th layer has already been very disruptive in all levels, if they ever create a 6th layer it would break the game completely (maybe I am wrong but I don't remember any game with so many layers). I think before this happens they will just release MPQ2 so we need to start again

OneLastGambit

Dr Strange to be the first 6*...heard it here first