AI making too many lucky chains

Unknown

pandaberry6 wrote:

Psykopathic wrote:

I think selective memory plays a part but it doesn't tell the whole story. As ICEIX has said before the computer matches to a basic algorithm. Means the computer can't tell where there's gonna be matches but it know where the highest probability of cascade matches is going to occur. The AI being an opportunist in this manner makes up for it missing the match 5's and not being able to use skills properly, at least to a certain extent. In the end the user still has the advantage. The AI is fine as is.

So that's why the AI doesn't make L or T match-5s? I didn't know that. Cool beans.

I don't necessarily know that that's why it doesn't make match 5's but I know that's basically how the AI operates and that's just kind of a result. It works out well in the end.

Unknown

The AI prefers a line over a L/T/+, and it does look like tiles dropped in a column/row formation is generally more favorable than one dropped at uneven locations.

By the way, since the AI places no special value on the crit tile unless it can be made into a match 4, it'd actually not be very good for it to make match 5s, because it usually just leaves the crit tile there for you to use.

Kelbris

mechgouki wrote:

The Ladder wrote:

Selective memory. Negative events stick in your mind as they hurt, forgetting all the positive events where such cascades can (and do) occur. A topic repeated ad nauseum on here since the games inception, and saddled to previous games in the PQ series too.

Truth be told, I agree with you to some extent. As the player, we do get lucky on cascades too.

But I want to ask you. In the situation where an entire column is cleared, and new tiles come in the replace it, what are the odds that you will get 5 yellow tiles conjoined together? Such situation happens, and they happen a lot.

My suspicion is the flaw is in the coding. They do not randomize new tiles falling in completely. I think they probably randomize groups of new tiles rather than singular tile by tile.

Did you not play PQ1 or something? This is nothing compared to watching the AI get 10 extra turns IN A ROW

Kelbris

Phantron wrote:

The AI prefers a line over a L/T/+, and it does look like tiles dropped in a column/row formation is generally more favorable than one dropped at uneven locations.

By the way, since the AI places no special value on the crit tile unless it can be made into a match 4, it'd actually not be very good for it to make match 5s, because it usually just leaves the crit tile there for you to use.

I've been seeing some higher priority on using Crits for a match 3 if theyre near a strong color as of late. Hell, venom stunned my team, and then used a match 3 (in yellow, wasn't a strong color) to set up a vertical 5 for the next turn. It was pretty impressive.

Unknown

Kelbris wrote:

Phantron wrote:

The AI prefers a line over a L/T/+, and it does look like tiles dropped in a column/row formation is generally more favorable than one dropped at uneven locations.

By the way, since the AI places no special value on the crit tile unless it can be made into a match 4, it'd actually not be very good for it to make match 5s, because it usually just leaves the crit tile there for you to use.

I've been seeing some higher priority on using Crits for a match 3 if theyre near a strong color as of late. Hell, venom stunned my team, and then used a match 3 (in yellow, wasn't a strong color) to set up a vertical 5 for the next turn. It was pretty impressive.

I don't know how high the priority is, but it certainly isn't like a player where you'd probably use up that crit tile immediately unless you got a match 4 somewhere. The computer is perfectly content letting a crit tile sit in a location for a long time.

Eddiemon

Phantron wrote:

Kelbris wrote:

Phantron wrote:

The AI prefers a line over a L/T/+, and it does look like tiles dropped in a column/row formation is generally more favorable than one dropped at uneven locations.

By the way, since the AI places no special value on the crit tile unless it can be made into a match 4, it'd actually not be very good for it to make match 5s, because it usually just leaves the crit tile there for you to use.

I've been seeing some higher priority on using Crits for a match 3 if theyre near a strong color as of late. Hell, venom stunned my team, and then used a match 3 (in yellow, wasn't a strong color) to set up a vertical 5 for the next turn. It was pretty impressive.

I don't know how high the priority is, but it certainly isn't like a player where you'd probably use up that crit tile immediately unless you got a match 4 somewhere. The computer is perfectly content letting a crit tile sit in a location for a long time.

Really? I ignore crits unless they help me achieve my objectives. If the colour doesn't help my guy shoot frikkin' laser beams out his eyes then meh.

Unknown

I ignore crits unless they help me achieve my objectives. If the colour doesn't help my guy shoot frikkin' laser beams out his eyes then meh.

A critical match in a colour which one of your characters is strong in is often about as good as a low-cost attack ability, I think.

Unknown

Well, we only ever win because the game lets us. There are certainly enough favorable flaws in the AI to even the playing field a bit.

For example, the game tends to use abilities when available instead of saving for something more powerful. So when fighting Ragnarok and Hulk for example, the game seems to like to destroy those two middle columns instead of waiting and using Hulk's green power instead. I noticed it again in the Black Panther and Psylocke events, as the AI usually used their abilities instead of enemy Thor's. (And God knows you can't play the game without facing a few hundred enemy Thors.)

I've also noticed that the enemy AI doesn't seem to like to use the same power twice on the same turn.

The AI will also go for a match-4 of any color over a regular match-3. Many times that match-4 isn't a useful color for the enemy and builds useless AP while an available match-3 would be much more useful and damaging.

I'm not positive, but it also doesn't seem like the AI prioritizes which powers it wants to build based on the team it is facing. For example, when I face OBW using OBW, I would expect the enemy to go for Purple first in a race to steal AP. But it seems to go for match-5, match-4, match-3 of the most damaging color, etc.

And, best of all, the enemy doesn't care how much health it has. Many times I've won as the enemy inadvertently killed itself with a self-damaging ability.

I'm not complaining. As I said, we only ever win because the game lets us. We need the AI to be flawed so we have a chance. Plus, when I wake up and see I've dropped from rank 50 to rank 350, I know it's not my fault. The AI just doesn't do a good job with my team.

Phaserhawk

I agree that the player chains as much as the AI, although my selective memory tells me there chains seem longer. However, when a player chains you are looking at 1-5K damage on average, when the AI chains it seems to be more along the longs of 3-8K but they are lvl230, I think that is why you notice those chains more, it hurts more

Unknown

The AI generally gets more chains than the player if the leveling field is even. Keep in mind going second is a huge disadvantage. It's rare that making a great move leads to another great move, and you always make the first move, so if you can find the great moves, there often is nothing for the AI to work with at all. The biggest advantage it has is that it never gets tired and misses a move that it'd otherwise get, and it also never gets tunnel visioned into collecting one color (in fact the AI cares very little about the colors themselves).

There are many artificial restriction to the computer because if you lose more often than you win, that would not be a very fun game.

Unknown

You know, I gave a great deal of thought to this. And I came to the conclusion the computer does, in fact, have an edge on the player. But not the edge everyone here is talking about. Its edge is that it plays the game to make cascades regardless of whether or not it needs the colours it matches.

You see, we, as players, are aiming to either deny the enemy their gems, or acquire ones that we need. As such, we may pass on those "seeming innocuous" matches, which in reality most likely could have led to us getting the cascade. Plus, because we are more selective, at times we may unwittingly set the board up for a massive cascade without really considering the issues.

The reason the AI mishandles so many combinations is that it doesn't really strategize, it just reacts to the board and reacts to the situation in the moment. I've seen it gobbling up environmental tiles on dunes maps when it had no green user, and yet I did. And it would use the tiles too, basically giving me green all over the place to kill them with. It's why it will Thorns a character to death even if it is their last character. It just uses abilities the moment they are ready with no prioritizing really.

From our view, this may seem like the computer has an unfair edge, but in reality, our playstyle gives it that edge.

farlus

Psykopathic wrote:

farlus wrote:

The real issue we should be discussing is that the AI has unfair advantage of knowledge of the tiles that will drop in next. I have noticed many times, typically when there is a crit tile present, that the AI will make a seemingly innocuous move that doesn't match the crit tile, which results in a tile dropping in from off screen that matches the crit tile. Not from a random cascade, mind, you, but a simple 1-2 deal. Seen it time and time again.

Um yeah, that's the part that has been discussed 10 billion times already and has no validity or further reason for conversation.

Joined the forums just recently and haven't had a chance to catch up on every forum thread about every topic regarding the game yet. Thanks for the warm welcome!

Clintman

If you ever want to feel better about AI cascades, run your max level Patch and Max level Hulk and drop 6 attack tiles for your team, and 6 tiles for the enemy team. Then, make the next match with Hulk and watch the team obliterate themselves in the most Glorious of cascades.

If the AI ever does this to me, I will for sure shed a tear.

Unknown

I have noticed an increase in cascades on both sides. Although it does seem the AI gets more out of the cascades then I do. Maybe it's just crazy luck but it seems a huge cascade is happening every 3rd turn or so. And I'm talking about normal matching not board shakers like Hulks green. With the board shakers the chains are even higher. It seems the minimum cascade the AI gets is 12 ap and I've seen upwards for 60ap on some really long chains. I've had some give me about 20ap lately and that's unusual. It could be selective memory or the fact it's hard to see what I get because if I get colors in a passive or non used color I don't usually look. I'm on iPhone so I don't see ap levels all the time and have to slide it over. However when the AI gets a match I pay attention to the little popup for how much they got for their turn.

Unknown

Clint wrote:

If you ever want to feel better about AI cascades, run your max level Patch and Max level Hulk and drop 6 attack tiles for your team, and 6 tiles for the enemy team. Then, make the next match with Hulk and watch the team obliterate themselves in the most Glorious of cascades.

If the AI ever does this to me, I will for sure shed a tear.

One time I had the computer wipe out Hulk in one cascade so none of my Anger went off.

Clintman

Phantron wrote:

Clint wrote:

If you ever want to feel better about AI cascades, run your max level Patch and Max level Hulk and drop 6 attack tiles for your team, and 6 tiles for the enemy team. Then, make the next match with Hulk and watch the team obliterate themselves in the most Glorious of cascades.

If the AI ever does this to me, I will for sure shed a tear.

One time I had the computer wipe out Hulk in one cascade so none of my Anger went off.

See, this is why you max out your covers, AI won't drop 9.2K unless it's a 230 cascade

Unknown

Clint wrote:

Phantron wrote:

Clint wrote:

If you ever want to feel better about AI cascades, run your max level Patch and Max level Hulk and drop 6 attack tiles for your team, and 6 tiles for the enemy team. Then, make the next match with Hulk and watch the team obliterate themselves in the most Glorious of cascades.

If the AI ever does this to me, I will for sure shed a tear.

One time I had the computer wipe out Hulk in one cascade so none of my Anger went off.

See, this is why you max out your covers, AI won't drop 9.2K unless it's a 230 cascade

The vast majority of the damage is done by your own Berserker Rage which scales with your HP if you leveled up Patch as well.

Unknown

Pawkeshup wrote:

You know, I gave a great deal of thought to this. And I came to the conclusion the computer does, in fact, have an edge on the player. But not the edge everyone here is talking about. Its edge is that it plays the game to make cascades regardless of whether or not it needs the colours it matches.

You see, we, as players, are aiming to either deny the enemy their gems, or acquire ones that we need. As such, we may pass on those "seeming innocuous" matches, which in reality most likely could have led to us getting the cascade. Plus, because we are more selective, at times we may unwittingly set the board up for a massive cascade without really considering the issues.

The reason the AI mishandles so many combinations is that it doesn't really strategize, it just reacts to the board and reacts to the situation in the moment. I've seen it gobbling up environmental tiles on dunes maps when it had no green user, and yet I did. And it would use the tiles too, basically giving me green all over the place to kill them with. It's why it will Thorns a character to death even if it is their last character. It just uses abilities the moment they are ready with no prioritizing really.

From our view, this may seem like the computer has an unfair edge, but in reality, our playstyle gives it that edge.

This tends to be true but I have observed the AI pass up obvious cascades on the board to make a single match-3. This is only true for obvious cascades that are all match-3.

Unknown

Bugpop wrote:

This tends to be true but I have observed the AI pass up obvious cascades on the board to make a single match-3. This is only true for obvious cascades that are all match-3.

I don't know if that's because they actually miss obvious cascades, or if this is the whole 'organic' thing that the dev talked about when we asked them. They certainly don't miss obvious cascades often enough for you to count on it.

Unknown

One thing I hate is going 3 or 5 turns with no chance of matching your colors but every non color you do match gives the ai the exact colors he needs every time