Post Mortem: Venom Bomb compared to the new EotS

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  • TxMoose
    TxMoose Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I didn't 'enjoy' VB. but its all perspective. after EotS, it was a breath of fresh air. I could make iso/hp/cp progress again. I could finish a clear in 30-45 minutes. I could use nearly any character in my roster on half the nodes. sure carnage and the symbiotes blow, but it was not unplayable like EotS was (for me).

    its like the a/c temp when I was growing up. parents were tightwads. could not put a/c below 78 (and was on 80 most of the time). it sucked. but work for a few hours out in 95 degree weather and 78-80 doesn't feel so bad.
  • Crowl
    Crowl Posts: 1,579 Chairperson of the Boards
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    simonsez wrote:
    ErikPeter wrote:
    I think the problem was trying to test/change too much all at once.
    I have to disagree. The problem is that they made two changes that made PvE way worse. I had absolutely no problem separating the scaling change from the timer change and concluding that they were both awful changes.

    They were both flawed rather than awful, the timer change could have been fine without the error that forced a double grind on people e.g. lock the nodes after 5 clears and only reopen them in the final hour or two for placement tiebreaking, the scaling change could have been fine if they had kept the trivial nodes and started the harder nodes at a much lower level.
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Crowl wrote:
    the timer change could have been fine without the error that forced a double grind on people e.g. lock the nodes after 5 clears and only reopen them in the final hour or two
    That doesn't eliminate the double-grind at all. Think about it.
    Crowl wrote:
    the scaling change could have been fine if they had kept the trivial nodes and started the harder nodes at a much lower level.
    In other words, it was fine except for what they changed.
  • mohio
    mohio Posts: 1,690 Chairperson of the Boards
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    simonsez wrote:
    Crowl wrote:
    the timer change could have been fine without the error that forced a double grind on people e.g. lock the nodes after 5 clears and only reopen them in the final hour or two
    That doesn't eliminate the double-grind at all. Think about it.
    Crowl wrote:
    the scaling change could have been fine if they had kept the trivial nodes and started the harder nodes at a much lower level.
    In other words, it was fine except for what they changed.
    You're being overly harsh on this guy and/or not understanding what he's saying. The double-grind thing is eliminated because you are getting rid of the point refresh that "made" people grind at the start of the sub as well as the usual grind at the end. By locking after the first 5 full point clears you eliminate the point refresh, which allows you to play at your own pace through the first 5 clears. This however now makes placement all about speed and how fast you can clear as many nodes as possible in the last 2 hours (or 3, 4, etc. depending on when you choose to "unlock" the nodes again). I'm not sure that's really what people would like.

    As for the other comment, he's just saying that changing the scaling wasn't bad per se, but they went too far with it, and suggested an alternative.
  • Crowl
    Crowl Posts: 1,579 Chairperson of the Boards
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    mohio wrote:
    You're being overly harsh on this guy and/or not understanding what he's saying. The double-grind thing is eliminated because you are getting rid of the point refresh that "made" people grind at the start of the sub as well as the usual grind at the end. By locking after the first 5 full point clears you eliminate the point refresh, which allows you to play at your own pace through the first 5 clears. This however now makes placement all about speed and how fast you can clear as many nodes as possible in the last 2 hours (or 3, 4, etc. depending on when you choose to "unlock" the nodes again). I'm not sure that's really what people would like.

    As for the other comment, he's just saying that changing the scaling wasn't bad per se, but they went too far with it, and suggested an alternative.

    Exactly, unless they switch to entirely progression-based then there needs to be a small period of grinding to be used as a tiebreaker, but by locking the nodes it drastically reduces the length of the grind and that need to do a double one.

    As far as the scaling, the visual indication of increase, the eliminating people being screwed for a 5* or undercovered 4*'s being boosted too high and upping your average are good things, but they started from too high a point on the nodes and mistakenly thought that the way to eliminate the jump between trivial and hard nodes was to up the trivials rather than lowering the hard ones.

    You could do something like this:

    Trivial - starts at 40. 50 and 60, going up by say 10 a clear to end at 100, 110 and 120 at most.
    Normal/Hard - start them below your roster average and increase them steadily so that they reach roster average halfway through your clears and go up from there.
    Essentials - slot them in between the other two like they are now.

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