This last node is undisputedly is the hardest in the game

TxMoose

The Viceroy Returns wrote:

The change only affected AOE's that have an initial target, like Scythes and Call of the Storm.
I believe other AOE's, like Kamala's Green, Black Panther's Black, etc., or any of the goon AOE's, still don't damage invisible characters.

that's not what I understood it to be. I understood it to be invisible to the higher target damage, but all the aoe damage was applied even if inviz.

amusingfoo1

TxMoose wrote:

The Viceroy Returns wrote:

The change only affected AOE's that have an initial target, like Scythes and Call of the Storm.
I believe other AOE's, like Kamala's Green, Black Panther's Black, etc., or any of the goon AOE's, still don't damage invisible characters.

that's not what I understood it to be. I understood it to be invisible to the higher target damage, but all the aoe damage was applied even if inviz.

AoE's have always affected invisible characters. The change was that the AI would never fire Carnage's red if there was no visible target. I heard that Carnage's red against a lone invisible target will hit with the full force, but I haven't tested that myself.

MPQ_Daywalker

TxMoose wrote:

The Viceroy Returns wrote:

The change only affected AOE's that have an initial target, like Scythes and Call of the Storm.
I believe other AOE's, like Kamala's Green, Black Panther's Black, etc., or any of the goon AOE's, still don't damage invisible characters.

that's not what I understood it to be. I understood it to be invisible to the higher target damage, but all the aoe damage was applied even if inviz.

Correct. Invisible people on your team always take damage from AOE attacks, just not the targeted amount if it's one that targets (like Scythes and Call the Storm).

The change made was in R93: "Enemy heroes now use Single-Target powers with AoE components when the last member of the Player’s team is invisible." Basically meaning that if an invisible Prof X is the last person alive on your team, he can still take damage from Scythes (the overall AOE damage, not the targeted one); previously the AI wouldn't even fire Scythes in that instance because there wouldn't have been a target.

To bring this thread back to the topic: I don't think comparing the hardest Gauntlet nodes ever is a fair comparison to a regular node in a PVE, especially a new character release PVE. For a Gauntlet pretty much everyone only plays those final nodes once. When you're competing for placement, it means you have to play that same node 4 or more times (for Top 100, more for anything higher than that), with your enemy scaling increasing every time you do a node clear.

The last node of Venom Bomb is annoying at best on the first clear and gets worse on every one after that. If you don't find a team with a cheap stun (get Carnage stunned as soon as you can) or go winfinite, the node starts becoming unclearable and supremely frustrating.

FaustianDeal

Memory is short, because those EotS nodes with 2* Wolverine and 2 ninjas were abominable. I was getting so much adamantium in my diet that week...

Sambuca

FaustianDeal wrote:

Memory is short, because those EotS nodes with 2* Wolverine and 2 ninjas were abominable. I was getting so much adamantium in my diet that week...

Yeah, Adamantium Slash + Caltrops are comparable to Symbiotic Scythes. Both red-activated powers and you'll take AOE damage...but I'd still rate Carnage + 2 red feeders more annoying simply because Scythes only cost 7 red and Slash costs 12. You just have a couple less extra turns to try and collect AP with these Carnage nodes, plus I hate the way he double dips with Alien Instincts and spawns attack tiles off of his own powers, not to mention the goons with their cheap abilities spamming tiles left and right.

With those 2* Wolv nodes, you can at least rotate the slash damage around based on who you make your matches with and not have to worry about the guy behind him (as opposed to taking a the full power Scythes to your front guy and having him go down, and then the 2nd guy in line taking all of the attack tile damage). Just way more collateral damage with the Carnage nodes IMO.

I wonder if people will be breathing a sigh of relief or complaining even further on the upcoming heroic PvE.

TxMoose

Sambuca wrote:

I wonder if people will be breathing a sigh of relief or complaining even further on the upcoming heroic PvE.

wonder no longer - default setting of most forumites is "this sucks I hate this" while they slurp up as much as they can get.

Calnexin

I've got nothing against the brutal nodes. I don't enjoy playing them, but I do feel that they're fair in context. All things being equal, the other players in my bracket are drawing the same thing, spending a similar number of health packs, and dropping out at roughly the same time.

I got a little worried, because for the last two subs I've only cleared the hardest node once at each 8 hr mark, and usually not at all during the final grind. After grinding the essentials (particularly those with Carnage), I'm too low on health packs to re-up a viable team for a 4th hit on it. Luckily, no one else I'm directly competing with appears to be doing it either - I've maintained position after each clear despite missing a good chunk of the last two nodes' points.

I've been using Vision, KK, and Panther. Vision is surprisingly devastating when his blue is on the board, and since it's so cheap to get out he brings out a heal. The combo stays alive just long enough to down Carnage and the horror. Since part of that effort was AoE Venom's already softened up and eventually falls to Carnage's leftovers.

I'm leaving that battle with three very damaged heroes, but that's pretty much how it goes with Carnage. Anything he's in does a number on my roster unless I've got a stun option.

zeeke

FaustianDeal wrote:

I think honors for "hardest I've ever seen" has to go to that one Gauntlet node that had: Loki/She-Hulk/Ultron (bomb dropper).

Nothing like having attempt after attempt end like this:
1 - She-Hulk fires Furious Charge voiding my TU pool before I can super-whale
2 - Loki fires Illusions and when the board stops moving there are 4 Ultron bombs sitting on the bottom of the board

Even after I decided to give up and whale that node it took 4 tries. These carnage/venom/feeder nodes are bad, but they are far from 'the worst'.

Yes, this so much this. I finally beat it with 2 marvel to get to the whales TU

Omega Red

IM40 + Ragnarok + 2*Storm

Ragnastorm!

GMadMan040

There are a lot of good arguments for "most brutal, to-the-face nodes in the PVE game" posted here.

There is no doubt that the one mentioned here by the OP is right up there with the worst.

I didn't see anyone else here mention that Venom is ALSO getting fed AP for his Symbiotic Fury at the same time as Carnage is getting fed his red. And Venom's skill drops in cost the more enemy special tiles are on the board. I lost count of how many times I took a Scythe to the face immediately followed by a Fury punch. It's never fun getting wiped by turn 5, but then welcome to MPQ.

I'd rather take the adamantium slash. At least it is only single target.

So for Non-Guantlet/Simulator PVE nodes, I rate this as "I want to kill myself" annoying.

TxMoose

_Daywalker_ wrote:

To bring this thread back to the topic: I don't think comparing the hardest Gauntlet nodes ever is a fair comparison to a regular node in a PVE, especially a new character release PVE. For a Gauntlet pretty much everyone only plays those final nodes once. When you're competing for placement, it means you have to play that same node 4 or more times (for Top 100, more for anything higher than that), with your enemy scaling increasing every time you do a node clear.

I'm with daywalker. not sure its apples to apples to compare a top gauntlet node that gets played once. G1 upper rounds had to be repeated - I'd put that one up there. I think these have a slight edge in difficulty over EotS. in EotS nodes, adamantium slash is higher ap, but its also a survival node that has kishu and stuff, so not really sure. 7ap symb scythes is just ridiculously strong. and he can do them every 3 turns or so and faster if he makes some red matches. i can beat it without much of a problem since rulk starts with 30K+ health, but I take a crapload of damage along the way. wish ice was boosted here instead of last week.

I'm kinda looking forward to next time carnage is boosted/essential - will have to experiment with him and im40 and a third (jean? antman? falcon/falcap? px? daken? blade? panther?). carnage is still way down my iso list though.

Mawtful

I agree that this one is just a slot machine, and I don't think that really equates to tough.

I seem to recall the 3 Deadpools node add being quite tough, especially at 300+

CNash

I was using my two-cover Quake (mercifully, boosted this week) to negate some of the AOE damage, Thor to pile on the damage and Falcon to deal with attack tiles and buff the ones that Carnage gave me. Quite luck-dependent, but then what isn't?

UncleSmed

Cost me some health packs.. but champed Doc Ock, Lcap and IM40 battery pack for Dr America!

Manipulating away Carnage after firing IM yellow and cap's red and doc's green worked well

DeNappa

Hah, most of the time when you attempt to battery IM40 on those nodes, the board is absolutely -starved. And if you finally get lucky enough to gather 6 yellow and fire it, an AI match-4 will blow up two of your recharge countdowns. All the time!

ErikPeter

The last time I beat it (CP, yay!) I used Fistbuster/Doc Ock. Mind you, it was only like level 270 or something. But with purple boosts and a first-turn 5-match chain, Fist Purple + Overdrive + Repulsor Punch (+ Alien Instincts + Insult to Injury) was enough to down Carnage and accumulate 2500 in attack tiles almost immediately.

That said, yeah it was really hard. A lot harder than Wolverine + 2 Red Feeders in EotS. But I had more health pack crunching with the "easy" Carnage + 2 Guard Dogs XFW node.

bobbyfish

agreed, only beat it twice. It's completely reliant on Iceman in my opinion and mine is 0/3/2, which although surprisingly handy on the lower level Carnages just couldn't hack this one. I don't mind there being a level of 'puzzle' to figuring out how to beat a node without brute force, but this one is just silly. The feeding has got to stop.

EDIT: actually, I whaled it for a last minute boost to get me 91st place, that's how desperate I got!

Cousin Simpson

I actually beat that node 7 times, because the CP was being elusive. I used KK/Vision/IM40, but instead of waiting 8 hours between this mission, I played it about every 90 minutes so that I could recover my health packs.